Bruce Lee

[wolfy]

That's my old thread. I got tired of that topic. People can never say for sure...

 

[Mal12345]

Immanual Kant may have been an INTJ and not INTP - extraordinary iq, extremely rigid doctrinaire, he had such a tight daily schedule that the people in his town adjusted their clocks according to his routine.

"For INJs, patterns aren't 'out there' in the world, waiting to be discovered. They're part of us--the way we make sense of the riot of energy and information impinging on our systems. A disease syndrome is a useful construct, but that's all it is--an aggregate of observations attached to a label, telling us what to see and how to deal with it."

That describes Kant's philosophy in a nutshell. INTJ.

 

[Sol_]

ESTP

 

[Sol_]

I know what VI is. There are multiple theories, and they go beyond long and round faces. Some revolve around neutral expressions, eyes, posture, etc..

noverbal behavior

The very type galleries that were originally the springboard for these theories don't show obvious similarities either

Initial appearing of VI is not by Filatova. Nonverbal behavior of types described first Augustinavichute in "Dual nature" (1983) (look there her description of shizotim/cyclotome - traits relating to J/P in modern socionics).

this also goes without mentioning that not all of those types clearly correspond with MBTI

Types in socioncs and MBT on preferences level are the same (look socioncs books and tests using preferences and compare with what is in MBT). The difference is in types profiles (based on wrong functional model in MBT), functional models (wich are different in MBT and at Jung) and functions descriptions (wich are bad developed by MBT followers).

Ekaterina Filatova had happened to take pictures of people in her consultings with people, but she had never proposed anything about VI.

Well, her books have descriptions of types having elements of image method based on nenverbal behavior and even phisiognomy. It was not her main method, but most probably she used VI in some degree, but less than some think (some things she mention just as hypothesis).

Secondly, Socionics.com is run only by one guy.. who isn't one of the main researchers behind any of it.

socionics have no main researchers at all, and no serious experimental researching (need to mention, MBT have no good experimental results too, but had some researching). there are popular names in socionics because of their theoretical/hypothetical works, but no commonly respected practioneers.

 

[Blackwater]

many people type Kant as INTJ but I just dont see it at all.

INTJs have visions.
Kant constructed piecemeal systems that he continuously revised.

INTJs start with the conclusion and then build up the argumetns
Kant starts with the arguments, and then builds up the conclusion

INTJs put their arguments is oracular tones
Kant puts his arguments in "grey paper wrapping" og meticulous arguments

 

[shishkabob]

TP= toilet paper

 

[Hopelandic]

Martial arts to him was about self expression. It was not about fighting, but being HIMSELF. He was extremely philosophical- watch his interviews. He was attentive and answered questions in depth. He came up with his own views on fighting and his OWN system. He was his OWN man, had his own views, and frequently talked from his own perspective. He was not traditional, or attempting to go against tradition; he was comfortable being true to his own self. His philosophies on fighting were very tao. He spoke with an undercurrent of emotion and passion when talking about the things he loved. I couldn't believe when I stumbled across him... I do martial arts, and have found no one who really saw it the same way I did until I came across him.

He has to be a Fi first, I say he's either isfp or infp. He had a beautiful grasp on intuition and his own sense of self.

I'm interested in his enneagram, I say that he's some combo of 4, 9 and maybe 7. I definitely think he has a tonne of sx energy. I reckon for his core, he might be a sexual nine, and four being extremely close.

 

[Hopelandic]

On second thoughts, 6w7 instead of 7. And with the 9, I reckon he's got some 9w8 with a 8w7 subwing.

He has a pretty strong connection to 7, I think.

 

[Hopelandic]

He was a passionate person but you could tell his feelings towards others and himself weren't very sensitive.(aka he was no softy) Bruce lee's training regiments were very intense and brutal. His Independence towards the martial arts was more for effective combat skills than self expression. If self expression was the main reason for him to invent jeet-kune-do he would of been known as a flashy "film style" fighter, than a true martial artist. He also had a passion towards creating effective efficient combat with jeet kune do. Creating maximum efficiency is a core ISTP treat.

Self expression is not about flashyness, it's about truth. Focusing on training your body to convey what you want to say; Conveying your truth. It's not a show; this is a comment he once made in an interview, where he said that it would be easy to pretend and such, but being true to yourself is much harder.

Good points though.

 

[KDude]

Yes, he was more of a martial artist. In fact, it was Chuck Norris who told him he needed to step it up a little.. that people love to see him do more kicking. Bruce was Kung Fu based, but he evolved in a way that kept his legs for low blows and footwork. His JKD (and fitness) teachings were obsessed with efficiency. Why exert oneself to kick in the head when you could break their shin or kick them in the nuts? He took the advice though, and mixed it up for the screen. Even then though, it wasn't very flashy.

 

[Hopelandic]

I could see N in that he was very open minded and saw that all martial arts systems were useful. None of this Tiger Claw vs Monkey Fist shit. He was the first true mixed martial artist (far more mixed than what comes across as MMA these days too). He came from the Wing Chun style of Kung Fu, but he took what he could from Aikido, Karate, Muay Thai, Juijitsu, Sumo.. Anything.. One of his favorites was actually Muhammad Ali. Bruce went out of his way to get films and study him.. part of his footwork was Fencing and Ali, and had nothing to do with Kung Fu. Anyways, one could say this was all tertiary Ni still. ISFPs and ISTPs can still think outside the box and synthesize different approaches, just not as well or wide reaching as INJ, of course. I just don't think his intent was wide reaching in the Fe sense.. he was simply aiming for personal expression and fluidity in combat. Second, he told his students that they needed to do the same with personal expression. That his path in Jeet Kune Do was not their path, that they needed to take from him only what they needed. He called his path Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do (Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do). He'd teach groundwork, but you would make your own Jeet Kune Do, not his. And if necessary, even throw out everything he taught. "A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence." Maybe that's still something an INFJ could say, but it's something to consider.

It's strange that the first thing I considered about Bruce was his merging of ideas, concepts etc. The first thing I considered for Bruce without much thought was enxp. Not necessarily true, but he seems to have that Ne spirit. "Take what you feel suits you (extraverted perception), but use it to go down your own chosen path (introverted judging)".

 

[Speed Gavroche]

ISTP 8w7 So/Sx.

 

[jixmixfix]

Self expression is not about flashyness, it's about truth. Focusing on training your body to convey what you want to say; Conveying your truth. It's not a show; this is a comment he once made in an interview, where he said that it would be easy to pretend and such, but being true to yourself is much harder.

Good points though.

you can purposely manipulate yourself to present yourself in any manner you desire like most film style martial artists, Bruce lee was all about effectiveness you can say his self expression was his form of effectiveness but his purpose wasn't about being self expressive in a "flashy" way.

 

[kevinlivecomau]

I've been looking around a few sites and many have labelled Lee as an ISTP. I disagree with this and believe that he was an INTJ. Although his physical condition may have suggested that he was very connected with the exterior environment, Bruce has displayed many N characteristics in his lifetime.

Lee had a very abstract method of thinking. He nullified the traditions between the Eastern and Western culture teaching people to '' Take what is useful, cast off what is inferior and add what is essential.'' He had a degree in philosophy, and used The Art Of War - Sun Tzu as one of the core resources in the development of his modern martial arts.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Speed Gavroche]

ISTP 8w7 So/Sx.

 

[Mal12345]

I've been looking around a few sites and many have labelled Lee as an ISTP. I disagree with this and believe that he was an INTJ. Although his physical condition may have suggested that he was very connected with the exterior environment, Bruce has displayed many N characteristics in his lifetime.

Lee had a very abstract method of thinking. He nullified the traditions between the Eastern and Western culture teaching people to '' Take what is useful, cast off what is inferior and add what is essential.'' He had a degree in philosophy, and used The Art Of War - Sun Tzu as one of the core resources in the development of his modern martial arts.

What are your thoughts on this?

If you look down below at "Similar Threads" you will see that this has been discussed before.

I have to go with Speed here on Lee's MBTI. The guy practical reeks of ISTP.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

If you look down below at "Similar Threads" you will see that this has been discussed before.

I have to go with Speed here on Lee's MBTI. The guy practical reeks of ISTP.

At least we can agree on one thing. Hurrah.

 

[RaptorWizard]

I've been looking around a few sites and many have labelled Lee as an ISTP. I disagree with this and believe that he was an INTJ. Although his physical condition may have suggested that he was very connected with the exterior environment, Bruce has displayed many N characteristics in his lifetime.

Lee had a very abstract method of thinking. He nullified the traditions between the Eastern and Western culture teaching people to '' Take what is useful, cast off what is inferior and add what is essential.'' He had a degree in philosophy, and used The Art Of War - Sun Tzu as one of the core resources in the development of his modern martial arts.

What are your thoughts on this?

There is a very interesting forum that argues for Bruce Lee being INTJ:
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=42273

 

[The Great One]

ISTP heavy Ni

 

[RaptorWizard]

ISTP heavy Ni

The question is though, was his Ni or Se heavier? If Ni, INTJ. if Se, ISTP. Since INTP balances those 2 out, he could also be INTP.