Eminem?

[Lyra.I]

ISxP, very individualistic which is usually associated with Fi but could easily be from Ti as well, both are self-focused functions. Don't know about enneagram type but sx/sp variant seems to fit well.

 

[neko 4]

He's either a counter phobic 6 or an 8.

 

[Pionart]

YouTube

He's an INFJ. Starts out with the speculating, then goes emotional, but it's a forceful kind of emotion there that you wouldn't necessarily pick as being Fe, then goes with the neutral draws, and then the definitive waves, but in the second response where he's talking about relapse, he just goes and goes with the waves. That's what he does sometimes, just extends the Se, really draws it out, which gives him a very Se sort of playing style for an INFJ, so it's like: Ni-Fe-Ti-Seeeeeeeeee

I'd say Sway is an ENTJ. He has a lot of push which strikes me as neutral and does the speculative honing and definitive draws.

 

[tommyc]

Not sure about INFJ Legion... - where's the Extraverted Feeling? The cuddliness, the warmth? That's the first thing you should be picking up, as thats his dominant external process. Seems to be displaying Extraverted Thinking, driven by Introverted Intuition. INTJ.

Regarding Sway - ENTJ seems plausible.

 

[raskol]

ESTP. Se dom. Archetypal badboy.

 

[Pionart]

Not sure about INFJ Legion... - where's the Extraverted Feeling? The cuddliness, the warmth? That's the first thing you should be picking up, as thats his dominant external process. Seems to be displaying Extraverted Thinking, driven by Introverted Intuition. INTJ.

Regarding Sway - ENTJ seems plausible.

There are more manifestations of Fe than just warmth. Eminem's hostility is very much related to his Fe.

 

[misfortuneteller]

ISFP 6w5.

 

[tommyc]

What's curious about Eminem is how in his music, he seems to be exhibiting Extraverted Intuition. Zany, playful, switches topics at lightning speed, uses different voices and characters, finds intricate rhyme patterns. So from his music, Id type him INFP or INTP. Indeed my original vote was INFP.

However off stage hes quite reasoned and deliberate in his communication, much more serious, focused, sticks to the point. The intuition is still there but its more internalised, introverted. So INTJ seems more plausible. Its almost as if he externalises his Intuition in his music - Ni becomes Ne.

 

[raskol]

He's an INFJ.

This perplexes me. You identify him on the Se/Ni and Ti/Fe axes respectively, but you go for Se inferior (INFJ) instead of picking out what should be his obvious dominant function (ESTP). You're obviously shirking his physical aptitude, like boxing, but at least consider the voice samples you presented elsewhere.

 

[tommyc]

There are more manifestations of Fe than just warmth. Eminem's hostility is very much related to his Fe.

I just rewatched the interview you posted. What I did not notice was right at the beginning, Eminem hands Sway a copy of an EP that Sway must have done when he was a kid, and asks Sway to sign. This seems an immediate attempt to establish harmony, and Sway is taken aback by the thoughtfulness of the gesture. This does suggest Fe! Its conceivable that Eminem is a very antisocial INFJ, type 4, SX/SP. I am a similar type, and I have had comments remarking on our similarities, especially with regards to my intense stare (which reflects my desire to understand others, not to dominate them). So I can see it!

On the other hand that act may be consistent with an INTJ who particularly values Sway for his contributions to urban music, a demonstrarion of Fi. Indeed Sway's response is one of mild surprise, like 'where did that come from?' Also the personal nature of the gesture suggests Fi rather than Fe, which is a more general radiation of warmth. And Eminem's general happiness to offend others and cause chaos through his music, even with regards to close family members, doesnt suggest Fe. He does express hostility in some songs, but other times he just mocks, and it often seems more for effect.

My instincts still tell me INTJ. He lacks the intrinsic softness, both in voice and in facial features, of an INFJ. But I can see where youre coming from!

 

[neko 4]

He sure doesn't seem like an ISFP to me! Maybe 6w5, but not ISFP. Too badass.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

He's essentially an Ni-Ti INFJ who taps into Fe and Se for performance purposes. And yes, he's a 6 and triple reactive, but I am actually not set on instincts for him despite the classic "he's a counterphobic 6" claims. I'd rather study him myself and go from there, but I probably won't.

 

[tommyc]

He's essentially an Ni-Ti INFJ who taps into Fe and Se for performance purposes. And yes, he's a 6 and triple reactive, but I am actually not set on instincts for him despite the classic "he's a counterphobic 6" claims. I'd rather study him myself and go from there, but I probably won't.

Are you saying his inferior, unconscious function of Ti entirely outweighs his Fe? What has become of his extroverted process (off stage)?

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Are you saying his inferior, unconscious function of Ti entirely outweighs his Fe? What has become of his extroverted process (off stage)?

I'm saying 16 types is not enough to describe the 8,000,000,000 people on the planet and that some people prefer the 3rd function over the second. Functions are also used in pairs, toggling between perception and judging/deciding.

And that I don't really feel like discussing such complex matters more right now because it's 7 am here and in my experience, people don't actually want to hear about updated versions/explanations of cognitive function.

 

[Pionart]

This perplexes me. You identify him on the Se/Ni and Ti/Fe axes respectively, but you go for Se inferior (INFJ) instead of picking out what should be his obvious dominant function (ESTP). You're obviously shirking his physical aptitude, like boxing, but at least consider the voice samples you presented elsewhere.

How is Se "obviously" his dominant function? He's so... adversarial and deliberate.

Boxers are probably more likely to be J (including INFJ) than they are to be P/ESTP. Compared to other sports, martial arts are more about force than they are about reflexes. Though besides, INFJs can have physical aptitude, they're just less likely to be professionally known for it than they are for something like... music, which is what Eminem's actually known for.

Like I said, he plays up his Ti and Se a lot, but his overall distinguishing quality seems to be the Ni. I don't think I'm likely to change my mind on that. To me it's kinda "obvious", but I wouldn't really say it is.

 

[raskol]

How is Se "obviously" his dominant function? He's so... adversarial and deliberate.

Physical presence in the form of flow and improvisation, not to mention the fluidity of movement and inherent restlessness, genuinely capture Se. The adversarial attitude would be his Fe (dark).

Boxers are probably more likely to be J (including INFJ) than they are to be P/ESTP.

Absolutely not. Athletics and aesthetic activity constitute pure Se (Pe).

Though besides, INFJs can have physical aptitude, they're just less likely to be professionally known for it than they are for something like... music, which is what Eminem's actually known for.

Sure, it's possible. But then you're arguing from the vantage of the less likely scenario. The point here shouldn't be bend over backwards to justify the type for a person, but to identify the person with the most likely type.

Like I said, he plays up his Ti and Se a lot, but his overall distinguishing quality seems to be the Ni. I don't think I'm likely to change my mind on that. To me it's kinda "obvious", but I wouldn't really say it is.

My goal is not to change your mind, but to challenge you so I can receive solid counter-arguments (thus improving my typology toolkit). That said, I still think Se dom is likelier than Ni dom. In my opinion, his voice and facial appearance also exude the intensity and high energy of Se, not Ni.

 

[Pionart]

What's curious about Eminem is how in his music, he seems to be exhibiting Extraverted Intuition. Zany, playful, switches topics at lightning speed, uses different voices and characters, finds intricate rhyme patterns. So from his music, Id type him INFP or INTP. Indeed my original vote was INFP.

However off stage hes quite reasoned and deliberate in his communication, much more serious, focused, sticks to the point. The intuition is still there but its more internalised, introverted. So INTJ seems more plausible. Its almost as if he externalises his Intuition in his music - Ni becomes Ne.

The voices/characters thing is Fe, the intricate rhyme patterns are Ti (paired with Ni in both cases). The zany/playfulness is Se. Not sure about the topic switching. But basically those things can be understood through an INFJ's conscious functions. Now, it's possible that when considering multiple traits at once then something resembling Ne does manifest, but everyone has Ne, and for an INFJ it's the most energising functions of the unconscious, so it depends on whether the person is utilising it through intention or whether it's a manifestation of unconscious processes.

I just rewatched the interview you posted. What I did not notice was right at the beginning, Eminem hands Sway a copy of an EP that Sway must have done when he was a kid, and asks Sway to sign. This seems an immediate attempt to establish harmony, and Sway is taken aback by the thoughtfulness of the gesture. This does suggest Fe! Its conceivable that Eminem is a very antisocial INFJ, type 4, SX/SP. I am a similar type, and I have had comments remarking on our similarities, especially with regards to my intense stare (which reflects my desire to understand others, not to dominate them). So I can see it!

On the other hand that act may be consistent with an INTJ who particularly values Sway for his contributions to urban music, a demonstrarion of Fi. Indeed Sway's response is one of mild surprise, like 'where did that come from?' Also the personal nature of the gesture suggests Fi rather than Fe, which is a more general radiation of warmth. And Eminem's general happiness to offend others and cause chaos through his music, even with regards to close family members, doesnt suggest Fe. He does express hostility in some songs, but other times he just mocks, and it often seems more for effect.

My instincts still tell me INTJ. He lacks the intrinsic softness, both in voice and in facial features, of an INFJ. But I can see where youre coming from!

The bit you're referring to me struck me as kinda deadpan and parodying, adding an air of confusion. So I think it actually had a heavy Ti+Se component to it.

 

[Pionart]

Physical presence in the form of flow and improvisation, not to mention the fluidity of movement and inherent restlessness, genuinely capture Se. The adversarial attitude would be his Fe (dark).

Well his ability to freestyle, his stage presence... it does utilise Se. INFJ has Se, and Eminem's Se is more prominent than the average INFJ's.

Absolutely not. Athletics and aesthetic activity constitute pure Se (Pe).

No... there are plenty of athletic SJ types. Long distance running for example utilises Si more than Se. Martial arts happens to be J dominated, probably for the reason I already mentioned.

Sure, it's possible. But then you're arguing from the vantage of the less likely scenario. The point here shouldn't be bend over backwards to justify the type for a person, but to identify the person with the most likely type.

You're saying it's less likely, but it's only less likely because you say it's less likely. An ESTP becoming a world-renowned rapper sounds like an unlikely scenario to me in comparison to an INFJ.

My goal is not to change your mind, but to challenge you so I can receive solid counter-arguments (thus improving my typology toolkit). That said, I still think Se dom is likelier than Ni dom. In my opinion, his voice and facial appearance also exude the intensity and high energy of Se, not Ni.

It took me a while to settle on a type for him, but eventually I was like... hey, he actually seems kinda like me in terms of how his mind works. So I looked at him through that lens I it seemed that I could suddenly understand him better.

For example, through the lens of INFJ, his Slim Shady persona makes sense because that's his Ti+Se. His Ti+Se have the quality of something that's put on for show, as an alter-ego.

Honestly... when I try to picture Eminem as being the same type as say, Jack Black, it just seems totally absurd.

 

[raskol]

Well his ability to freestyle, his stage presence... it does utilise Se. INFJ has Se, and Eminem's Se is more prominent than the average INFJ's.

ESTP and INFJ share the same function stack, as I pointed out above. But INFJ indicates Se inferior. Naturally, INFJs can develop their Se, but then you're once again arguing from the vantage of outlier characteristics.

No... there are plenty of athletic SJ types. Long distance running for example utilises Si more than Se. Martial arts happens to be J dominated, probably for the reason I already mentioned.

You'll also find INTP rodeo cowboys and ISFP stock brokers. Again, these are outliers. When you are dealing with aesthetics and athletics, Se is the favored function. That doesn't exclude other types, it simply determines an order of rank.

You're saying it's less likely, but it's only less likely because you say it's less likely. An ESTP becoming a world-renowned rapper sounds like an unlikely scenario to me in comparison to an INFJ.

I would assume that most rappers are either Se dom or strong Se users. I haven't seen that many typed, but I'd throw in Jay-Z as an ESFP and Kendrick Lamar as an ESTP.

It took me a while to settle on a type for him, but eventually I was like... hey, he actually seems kinda like me in terms of how his mind works. So I looked at him through that lens I it seemed that I could suddenly understand him better.

For example, through the lens of INFJ, his Slim Shady persona makes sense because that's his Ti+Se. His Ti+Se have the quality of something that's put on for show, as an alter-ego.

I think we approach it differently--as I favor Fi/Te versus your Fe/Ti--which means I consider the data and the likeliest correlations. I would only get lost in the weeds if I attempted to think or feel the way someone else does. That's why I instead focus on the empirical and draw my conclusion based on the most likely correlation, so that I can adjust it in accordance with informational updates.

Honestly... when I try to picture Eminem as being the same type as say, Jack Black, it just seems totally absurd.

I have never seen Jack Black typed, but I also don't see how it is relevant here. I think we are approaching typology from the wrong perspective when we attempt to imagine an immediate affinity among persons identified as the same type. I would, for instance, assume Ben Affleck, Tom Hardy, and Cristiano Ronaldo to be ESTPs, but I wouldn't put them next to Eminem and try to identify similarities as a typing method.

 

[Pionart]

[MENTION=38622]raskolnik[/MENTION]

I'm arguing from actually looking at Eminem and comparing to archetypal features of type.

I'm also looking at likeliest correlations if you want to frame it like that. However correlations are insufficient compared with actually observing a person.