Amy Winehouse

[ICUP]

It's because you are a 6w5 Sx/Sp and she was 6w7 Sx/So, completely different.



She is totally the buddy.



Hem, bolded is not her at all.



And you ae wrong.

I think it describes her.....
It says she creates "more for herself than for an audience", and that could be true. That doesn't mean that she doesn't create AT ALL for an audience. It just means that her creations are done more as an expression of the self. A 3 more creates for an audience specifically.
The real world does appear to be less interesting to Amy. She's not what I would call a realist.
As far as a minimalistic lifestyle: She generally did not pursue dating Hollywood celebrities, buying huge mansions, a "glamorous" lifestyle, or any of the other more lavish things materialistic lifestyles offer. She came from a musical family, she was trained to sing, and she got signed. It didn't change the true person. It's not about having money, but how the person chooses to spend their lives regardless, that clues one in to the true personality.
Amy is the true rebel.... the isfp who defies the rules without skipping a beat. She is one who would never change that. She's the one all the wanna-be's, wanna be.


As opposed to:

The six with a seven-wing: The Buddy

Healthy: Engaging and funny, people of this subtype are less serious than the other subtype-- they tend to avoid heavy topics and restrict their focus on their security needs (taxes, bills, office politics, and the like). They are serious, however, about commitments and make sacrifices to ensure the safety and well-being of their family and friends. They also enjoy good company, kidding around, and emphasizing their connections with others.

Average: These people are eager to be liked and accepted, but they are also more hesitant to speak out about themselves or their problems. While sociable, they are also insecure and depend on loved ones for reassurance and advice before coming to important decisions. They have problems with procrastination and initiating projects on their own. They tend to get into diversions and distractions to quiet that anxiety, including sports, shopping, and "hanging out" with others. Overeating, drinking, and substance abuse are possible. They are not particularly political but can be opinionated and vocal about their likes and dislikes. Anxiety about personal failings or important relationships can lead to depression.

The only part that really fits her here is the substance abuse being possible. There's nothing here that gives me any ideas this fits Amy Winehouse, otherwise.

The 4 with a 3 wing: The Aristocrat

Healthy: People in this subtype combine creativity with ambition, the desire for self-improvement and an eye toward achieving goals, often involving their personal advancement. They are more sociable than people of the other subtype and want to be successful and distinctive. They feel the need to communicate themselves and their creative efforts to others, and so they care both about finding the right mode of expression and about avoiding anything off-putting or in bad taste. They create with an audience in mind.

Average: These people are more self-conscious and aware of issues regarding self-worth and how they are coming across to others than people of the other subtype. They want recognition for themselves and their work, and they typically put more effort into everything having to do with their self-presentation and related matters. They are more practical but also more extravagant, loving refinement, culture, and sophistication - typically seeing themselves as high class, elegant, and concerned with social acceptance. They can be competitive and disdainful of others; grandiosity and narcissism are expressed more openly and directly.

She could be a 4w3 gone wrong...... or she could have both wings. But she is one or the other, or both, as I expressed previously. She does seem more 4w5 to me, and a record company helped to develop the rest. I can be very 6w7 at times, as well. I just don't rest there. She seems to be very 4w3 in alot of ways, but she doesn't seem to rest there. She's more of a 4w5 to me who was thrusted into a more 4w3 lifestyle.

End result is: I can't decide between 4w5 or 4w3 lol...... she has clues of some of both, as I do when it comes to 6w5 vs. 6w7. If I had to pick one, it would definitely be 4w5, so I'm sticking with that! I've seen some 4w3's, and they are much more obviously "aristocratic".

 

[Thalassa]

My ISFP friend is like this as well, especially your first three points. She remembers more about our highschool days BY FAR than I do. She conjures up conversations, what happened when we went to this place, etc. And I sit there thinking, huh? I totally don't remember this.

I've liked a couple of her songs, but there is nothing about her that I have ever identified with. Not saying I always or have to identify with other INFPs, but I can usually pick up on the thread they are coming from.

And most importantly I don't see anything Ne about her. Ne is how we interact with the world most of all.

Hmmm...interesting...ISFP could be a possibility....I also thought of ISTP for her because of some of her tough talk about Kylie Minogue being "a pony" and other public statements about other pop artists...still could be SFP, I'm just saying that STP doesn't seem implausible either.

I really identified with "Love is a Losing Game" and I like her music, I "get it"...but on the other hand I think the message in "Rehab" was terrible and is quite telling of someone with serious fucking issues, it's not surprising she OD'd after releasing a single with those particular lyrics and attitude. On the other hand, I find that one particular lyric where she says that therapy can't teach her anything that her favorite soul musician can't, that resonates somewhat with my mindset when I was younger...I think she believed in cultural knowledge passed down through art and music more than she trusted academic knowledge.

i really doubt she overdosed because she didn't understand her body and didn't know how much it could handle. she was a heavy drug user for at least 5 years, i'm sure she knew the risks she was taking. but she seemed extremely self-destructive and was suffering from a lot of mental illnesses. regardless of what happened, i see it as a form of suicide, not an accidental overdose. anyone living the life she did is slowly killing themselves.

Yeah I read an article ...she purchased cocaine, ketamine, ecstasy, and heroin in one night...she KNEW what she was doing and had been on a drinking binge the week prior. People who do drugs know what that mixture of drugs would do.

I think she may have been a very sick ISxP...it's hard to tell because of her mental problems, which I think were Borderline Personality Disorder in light of her eating disorders, self-harm, over-the-top drug use, and other behaviors.

Her behavior over the past like five years was horrifying, put Courtney Love to shame...someone else who I think has a very severe case of BPD combined with drug addiction.

 

[GirlFromMars]

My guess is ISTP.

 

[Sizzling Berry]

Hmmmm....

I love this picture of her. Just typing from it, she doesn't look T to me.

 

[ICUP]

Hmmmm....

I love this picture of her. Just typing from it, she doesn't look T to me.

She's pretty in this picture. I don't think she looks very T either. She has always seemed melancholy to me.

 

[Xenon]

She does have a sort of dreaminess in her eyes there. I've never thought much of typing based on photographs though.

 

[ICUP]

She does have a sort of dreaminess in her eyes there. I've never thought much of typing based on photographs though.

I tend to type based on a whole picture. I don't think typing can be done by one method, so I will take into account many.

One little thing that really bothers me when thinking Amy could be istp is that Amy explains that she wanted to write with "emotionality". I think she said the word "emotional" 4 times in two minutes....
I don't even think I knew the meaning of the word "emotion" until I was 35..... lol.
Emotions weren't natural at all for me. I didn't know how to express them at all until later. I'm not saying it's not possible for an istp, but it doesn't seem "right" for someone as young as Amy to be an istp and be that in-touch with their emotions. In other words, she's interested in them, whereas they may as well not have existed as far as I was concerned. I ignored my feelings and still do as much as I can. I'm just not interested.

If someone has had a different experience, correct me if I'm wrong.
I think if I would've written music back then, it would've sounded a lot more like Poison's "Talk Dirty to Me" lmao..... or AC/DC.

 

[Thalassa]

I tend to type based on a whole picture. I don't think typing can be done by one method, so I will take into account many.

One little thing that really bothers me when thinking Amy could be istp is that Amy explains that she wanted to write with "emotionality". I think she said the word "emotional" 4 times in two minutes....
I don't even think I knew the meaning of the word "emotion" until I was 35..... lol.
Emotions weren't natural at all for me. I didn't know how to express them at all until later. I'm not saying it's not possible for an istp, but it doesn't seem "right" for someone as young as Amy to be an istp and be that in-touch with their emotions. In other words, she's interested in them, whereas they may as well not have existed as far as I was concerned.

If someone has had a different experience, correct me if I'm wrong.
I think if I would've written music back then, it would've sounded a lot more like Poison's "Talk Dirty to Me" lmao..... or AC/DC.

You have a really good point. I'm going to go with ISFP then.

 

[Randomnity]

She's really obviously disturbed even before the drugs, so it's hard to really say. That said, I really really don't think she's a thinker, particularly not an ISTP. She keeps going on and on about emotions and feelings and making people feel things with her music, which granted is partly a musician thing, but she comes across as very Fi.

If I had to guess I'd say ISFP at least pre-drugs. After drugs she seems to act more ESTP.

 

[GO2SLEEPHO]

ISFJ

yup... ISFJ

 

[A window to the soul]

She's some kind of IxFP.

[YOUTUBE="HbDBSm8BUoU"]Amy Winehouse video a couple of months ago:[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Thalassa]

She's really obviously disturbed even before the drugs, so it's hard to really say. That said, I really really don't think she's a thinker, particularly not an ISTP. She keeps going on and on about emotions and feelings and making people feel things with her music, which granted is partly a musician thing, but she comes across as very Fi.

If I had to guess I'd say ISFP at least pre-drugs. After drugs she seems to act more ESTP.

Yeah I agree that the drugs could have altered her personality into something outrageous. I've seen one of my sisters strung out really badly, and a real addiction to hard drugs will make you act like a different person.

The more I think about it, the more I agree she has to be some kind of FP because of the obvious motive for her art. ICUP brought up a great point with the emotive quality of her music, which is what I identify with about her. Why would a young STP focus that much on mellow, jazzy love songs, and pour her heart out about her personal flaws and relationships gone wrong? Very FP, totally.

Perhaps that's the inherent quality she had that I feel I can relate to...it's Fi. She's an Fi type who may have acted more Se + T because of drugs.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I think it describes her.....
It says she creates "more for herself than for an audience", and that could be true. That doesn't mean that she doesn't create AT ALL for an audience. It just means that her creations are done more as an expression of the self.

Like every true artist do, does'nt mean she is 4 at all.

A 3 more creates for an audience specifically.

Who said she was 3?

The real world does appear to be less interesting to Amy.

Assertion wich is based on.. what?

She's not what I would call a realist.

Who said she was a realist ? But actually, her song talk a lot about the real life, often is a sarcastic way, and was very experienced of reality.

As far as a minimalistic lifestyle: She generally did not pursue dating Hollywood celebrities,

She was married. And she was an english singer, not an american actress, what the fuck the "hollywood" thing come to do here? Have we to necessarly fuck the Hollywood crowd to not be called "minimalist"?

buying huge mansions,

She was self-pres last. She does'nt care about the comfort of a mansion at all, other than that, her lifestyle was hedonistic and extreme, not "minimalist" at all.

a "glamorous" lifestyle, or any of the other more lavish things materialistic lifestyles offer.

The contrary of "minimalist" is not "materialist". As I said, you can be an extreme hedonist without being materialist. 4w5s are epured and more or less schisoid or avoidant, she was not like that at all.

She came from a musical family, she was trained to sing, and she got signed. It didn't change the true person. It's not about having money, but how the person chooses to spend their lives regardless, that clues one in to the true personality.
Amy is the true rebel.... the isfp who defies the rules without skipping a beat. She is one who would never change that. She's the one all the wanna-be's, wanna be.

"She is a true person and she is a rebel so she is a 4". Do you realise how stupid it is?

As opposed to:

The six with a seven-wing: The Buddy

Healthy: Engaging and funny, people of this subtype are less serious than the other subtype--

Completely her.

they tend to avoid heavy topics and restrict their focus on their security needs (taxes, bills, office politics, and the like).

She was self-pres last, so, dod'nt have too much issues on this.

They are serious, however, about commitments and make sacrifices to ensure the safety and well-being of their family and friends. They also enjoy good company, kidding around, and emphasizing their connections with others.

She was completely like that.

Average: These people are eager to be liked and accepted, but they are also more hesitant to speak out about themselves or their problems.

She was usually likable and hardly talked about problems.

While sociable, they are also insecure and depend on loved ones for reassurance and advice before coming to important decisions.

It is obvious if you leanr more about her that she was sociable, anxious and codependant.

They have problems with procrastination and initiating projects on their own. They tend to get into diversions and distractions to quiet that anxiety, including sports, shopping, and "hanging out" with others. Overeating, drinking, and substance abuse are possible.

How can you not see how well that fits with her?

They are not particularly political but can be opinionated and vocal about their likes and dislikes.

Again, she was really like this.

Anxiety about personal failings or important relationships can lead to depression.

Yep! Amyt Winehouse was completely 6w7 then.

For 4w3, I posted videos to show how true 4w3s are. She was not aristocratic at all, but actually, many 4w3s are not aristocratic either. 4s are human feeling who let time to let feelings expand when they are talking. They are theatrical in their melancholy and have a connection to 1 and a feeling of excellence of perfection. Amy Winehouse was a bubbly, eccentric and friendly tomboyish girl who hardly let time for feeling in conversations.

In interview, she tried to anwered as quickly as possible, and thought at the same time she talked, with that typycal jerky speech. 4w3 are not jerky at all in their speech, they are rather slow, theatrical, melancholic, or even severe, sometimes tense and hyper emotive. When helthy they are like connected to an endless need of passion and quite joyfull, but never jerky.

I'm not religious at all. I think faith is something that gives you strength. I believe in fate and I believe that things happen for a reason but I don't think that there's a high power, necessarily. I believe in karma very much though. There are so many rude people around and they're the people that don't have any real friends. And relationships with people - with your mom, your nan, your dog.. are what you get the most happiness in life from. Apart from shoes and bags.

I know I'm talented, but I wasn't put here to sing. I was put here to be a wife and a mum and look after my family. I love what I do, but it's not where it begins and ends.

She was in touch with the core meaning of faith and valued fairness, relationships and honesty. She has a taste for fashion and materials. She has a rebelious lifestyle and put family and duty before art. She was an addictive hedonist. She was a 6w7.

 

[Randomnity]

In interview, she tried to anwered as quickly as possible, and thought at the same time she talked, with that typycal jerky speech.

Ok...but she was on drugs.....

 

[Speed Gavroche]

She is also like this on videos where she's not on drugs. William Burroughs took drugs and was not like her, tons of people take drug and are not like her. Drugs and alcohol don't make us act the same way, we all have specific reactions to this based on our personalities. The "drug" argumenbt is pretty pointless. She was a real person before being a drug user.

 

[Thalassa]

we all have specific reactions to this based on our personalities

This is true. I think it has to do with with body chemistry, too.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

This is true. I think it has to do with with body chemistry, too.

Eh, I never take drugs but when I'am drunk, I'm completely different than the other dunks person around. I really feel that my own personality cange it completely as well as my own personal mood, it amplifies it, pretty much. Don't know about body chemistry though.

 

[ICUP]

Like every true artist do, does'nt mean she is 4 at all.
Who said she was 3?
Assertion wich is based on.. what?
Who said she was a realist ? But actually, her song talk a lot about the real life, often is a sarcastic way, and was very experienced of reality.
She was married. And she was an english singer, not an american actress, what the fuck the "hollywood" thing come to do here? Have we to necessarly fuck the Hollywood crowd to not be called "minimalist"?
She was self-pres last. She does'nt care about the comfort of a mansion at all, other than that, her lifestyle was hedonistic and extreme, not "minimalist" at all.
The contrary of "minimalist" is not "materialist". As I said, you can be an extreme hedonist without being materialist. 4w5s are epured and more or less schisoid or avoidant, she was not like that at all.
"She is a true person and she is a rebel so she is a 4". Do you realise how stupid it is?
Completely her.
She was self-pres last, so, dod'nt have too much issues on this.
She was completely like that.
She was usually likable and hardly talked about problems.
It is obvious if you leanr more about her that she was sociable, anxious and codependant.
How can you not see how well that fits with her?
Again, she was really like this.
Yep! Amyt Winehouse was completely 6w7 then.
For 4w3, I posted videos to show how true 4w3s are. She was not aristocratic at all, but actually, many 4w3s are not aristocratic either. 4s are human feeling who let time to let feelings expand when they are talking. They are theatrical in their melancholy and have a connection to 1 and a feeling of excellence of perfection. Amy Winehouse was a bubbly, eccentric and friendly tomboyish girl who hardly let time for feeling in conversations.
In interview, she tried to anwered as quickly as possible, and thought at the same time she talked, with that typycal jerky speech. 4w3 are not jerky at all in their speech, they are rather slow, theatrical, melancholic, or even severe, sometimes tense and hyper emotive. When helthy they are like connected to an endless need of passion and quite joyfull, but never jerky.
She was in touch with the core meaning of faith and valued fairness, relationships and honesty. She has a taste for fashion and materials. She has a rebelious lifestyle and put family and duty before art. She was an addictive hedonist. She was a 6w7.

You took most of my points out of context/didn't understand them, and I think it would be pointless to go back and explain them again, so I'm not going to. (I'm not saying this is your fault, but I see a disconnect between what I am saying and what you are hearing).
I will venture to mention that when I said "Hollywood celebrities", I generally assume that I am talking to someone in America. I realize I could improve on this. In America, people who become famous a lot of times will date other celebrities. In fact, I don't think I know of many celebrities who have chosen to marry complete "nobodies" (in celebrity lingo), although there are some. When they do, I consider that it has meaning. Amy's husband was a druggie and a "nobody" in celebrity terms, so I consider that could be a part of living "a minimalist lifestyle", ie. a more simple existence. I also think that celebrities who choose to go to dive bars and hang out with "nobodies" could be seen as minimalists, or simpletons, and she did this too..... The overall picture tells me that she was living a minimalistic lifestyle as opposed to a glamorous, (more complicated and less simple), star-studded one, and that was the point I was going for. I was addressing your bolded points that you claimed did not fit Amy.... and not necessarily trying to prove she was a 4 vs. 6 during this point......
I think at this point, disagreeing is ok with me lol.......




While I think it can be said that she fits SOME of the 6w7 profile as I would fit the 4w5 profile in some ways, I don't think you can say that it defines her. From what I've seen, enneagrams generally define the person, and 4w3/4w5 defines Amy a lot more than 6w7/6w5 does......(keeping in mind that most of us generally have both involved in some way). She "prefers downbeat scenes", not talking about taxes lmao...... (that just means I think she prefers jazz and downbeat scenes as opposed to being committed or concerned with security).....Sure, I think her life is possible as a 6w7, but I think there's nothing I've seen that tells me she IS 6w7, like I can see 4w5. It is after all, still just a guess for all of us.....



4's lean toward severe depression, npd, avoidant, murder, and suicide. I think she could fit this mold.

Sure, people in interviews are mostly all funny and engaging, that doesn't tell me much about the person.

I think if you look at Woody Allen, you can see a good manifestation of 6w7 through art. "Funny and engaging" defines him as a whole, and he is outwardly concerned with security.

 

[Lark]

She is the dead type.

Part of something called the 27 club, all the artists that die at that age.

 

[Thalassa]

Hoo boy, do I really have to go into the 27 thing?

First of all, it was already elevated to cultural mythical status by the early 90's, so when something becomes a part of the culture's mythological status to that level, in the collective unconscious it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. That is, if you're one of those people who believe you are unlucky, or that bad things always happen to you, you will subconsciously self-sabotage. The 27 thing can operate on that level, which I think may have been the case with Kurt Cobain.

Secondly, at 25 the brain has reached maturity, and the body's replication on a cellular level also begins to slow in the mid-to-late twenties. This means the body can no longer withstand the drug abuse that it may have been able to bounce back from in the late teens or early twenties. If you're 27 and you keep partying like you're 21, there could potentially be dire physical consequences.

I don't think it's healthy to perpetuate superstition.