Robin Williams

[skylights]

You are dismissing a relevant comment with one broad stroke in order to quickly move on and assert your own belief. My point is that logic may or may not be Ti's guiding star. "Logic" is an Occidental intellectual bias. Ti will still exist in cultures where logic is not put on a pedestal. That internal basis may for example be meditation as a way of finding truth. The quest for intellectual truth is internally determined, that's all that matters here! All else is stereotyping.

I don't disagree with your description of Ti here, but I feel like you missed the forest for the trees and addressed my individual words instead of my holistic point. I hope if you have read any amount of my posts on this site that you would be able to tell that I try very consciously to avoid stereotype, even if I cannot always succeed to eliminate my own bias. However, I tend to be wordy, and I also try to limit myself. Clearly I didn't choose the words that would make sense to your sense of precision, but that doesn't mean that I was dismissing or simplifying. I actually initially wrote a long paragraph response to your comment, but I felt like it was losing sight of the point.

...or that an ENTP can't pour him or herself into a character...

Again, not something I am arguing, nor even remotely close to my point. An ENTP certainly can, but as you can see from actors like Sacha Baron Cohen, or Robert Downey Jr, there is a different quality to Fe being poured into a character. I wish I could speak to it better than this because it is hard for me to articulate. It is sort of like empathy versus sympathy, but that is not really right either.

Robin Williams was also a cultural critic, a skeptical Ti. For example, 'Some people say Jesus wasn't Jewish. Of course he was Jewish! Thirty years old, single, lives with his parents, come on. He works in his father's business, his mom thought he was God's gift, he's Jewish. Give it up." Never mind, ENFPs can be that way too!

Yeah, I feel like any NP does a fair amount of questioning in their lives. Whether it is directed at culture probably has to do with a lot of factors.

I remember Robin Williams well. His behavior per se doesn't matter, it's the hyper-intensity of the behavior. He was busting out with extroversion, in the right settings, completely unregulated out-of-control stream-of-thought extroversion strewn here and there with "why?" moments. He was always asking "why?" He was an NT who wanted to know the reasons. He didn't ask his audience, he asked nobody in particular and everybody in general, or perhaps he was just talking out loud, expressing something of his internal world in between the bouts of intense stream-of-thought.

ENFPs do this as well. ENFPs want to know reasons as well. That is not an NT thing alone. I am surprised you would make that point after saying that my comment was stereotyping.

 

[Edgar]

ENTPs don't make "mother russia" jokes ad nauseum unless they are doing it ironically.

Robin Williams was an ESFJ with a cocaine problem.

 

[Stephano]

ENTPs don't make "mother russia" jokes ad nauseum unless they are doing it ironically.

Robin Williams was an ESFJ with a cocaine problem.

Seriously, you think Williams was a judger? This is how spontaneous he was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er4rafRECFU

 

[Dawd]

He was definitely FP

 

[Edgar]

Seriously, you think Williams was a judger? This is how spontaneous he was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er4rafRECFU

Yeah, a manic ESFJ who feeds on people's laughter.. I'm an INTJ, and when I'm hyper and doing schtick, I can appear somewhat similar (except for a shorter periods of time and my jokes are better). I just think that trying to guess a comedian's type based on their public appearances is a fool's errand, considering they are under a constant expectation to be funny

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I kind of think ESFJ as well.

You want to see an ENTP comedian, watch some George Carlin standup. (Yes, I realize many consider Carlin ENFP, but that's bullshit)

 

[pinkgraffiti]

ESFJ? guys, you are insane. it takes one to know one: he was an ENFP.

 

[Evee]

Just compare Robin Williams with Bill Hicks... Not an ENFP.

I never even found him (Robin) that funny at all to be honest.

 

[Mal12345]

I don't disagree with your description of Ti here, but I feel like you missed the forest for the trees and addressed my individual words instead of my holistic point. I hope if you have read any amount of my posts on this site that you would be able to tell that I try very consciously to avoid stereotype, even if I cannot always succeed to eliminate my own bias. However, I tend to be wordy, and I also try to limit myself. Clearly I didn't choose the words that would make sense to your sense of precision, but that doesn't mean that I was dismissing or simplifying. I actually initially wrote a long paragraph response to your comment, but I felt like it was losing sight of the point.



Again, not something I am arguing, nor even remotely close to my point. An ENTP certainly can, but as you can see from actors like Sacha Baron Cohen, or Robert Downey Jr, there is a different quality to Fe being poured into a character. I wish I could speak to it better than this because it is hard for me to articulate. It is sort of like empathy versus sympathy, but that is not really right either.



Yeah, I feel like any NP does a fair amount of questioning in their lives. Whether it is directed at culture probably has to do with a lot of factors.



ENFPs do this as well. ENFPs want to know reasons as well. That is not an NT thing alone. I am surprised you would make that point after saying that my comment was stereotyping.

Then there's no difference between NT and NF, and we should just throw away typology.

 

[Mal12345]

Robin Williams' Ti skepticism.

 

[Riva]

I kind of think ESFJ as well.

You want to see an ENTP comedian, watch some George Carlin standup. (Yes, I realize many consider Carlin ENFP, but that's bullshit)

George Carlin is probably a ISTX. If it was Fe that was expressive in those instances, it was definitely inferior Fe.

Not ENTP at all.

I don't know too many comedians. Elim Garak from Star Trek DS9 (ENTP 6w7 So/Sx) and King Shultz from Django Unchained are two characters that constantly come to my mind for ENTP characters. I would expect ENTP comedians to be similar atleast slightly.

Also Shawn Spencer from Psych but he is unrealistically hyper all the time.

 

[Mal12345]

Robin Williams' Ne-Fe loop:
[ENTP] ENTP: A Jungian Analysis
"Ideally, Fe development should occur once Ti recognizes that there is a valid and inherently consistent reason for collectivized moral judgment to arise and guide the structure of interpersonal relationships. Earlier in life, it's all too common for ENTPs to expect continual validation, encouragement, and attention from the people they find interesting, but without the balancing influence of Fe, they rarely recognize the imbalance between how much they take and how much they give to the people closest to them. When confronted with this disparity, it's not uncommon for tertiary Fe to spring into action and promote feelings of guilt and self-criticism, but the process of learning to correct this disparity is a vital part of developing adult relationships where ENTPs are willing and able to give as much as they often unconsciously take. Giving up the logical high ground may prove difficult for the young ENTP's ego to swallow, but it's a vital step toward personal balance that's responsible for a great deal of the gradual movement from pure hedonistic exploration toward a more well-rounded outlook and a serious understanding of and respect for the needs and sentiments of those close to them. Though they do tend to mature slowly in general, it's not uncommon to see abrupt and unexpected leaps in perspective in this area, especially when the ENTP admires or strives to emulate a close friend or family member with strong Fe. While most ENTPs tend to idolize other NPs in their search for identity, it's often useful for young adult ENTPs to develop close relationships with xxFJ types, as a number of important and growth-inspiring perspectives and interpersonal strategies can be garnered from this sort of interaction."

 

[Mal12345]

I've changed my call on Williams' type. He was an EStP. SW's analysis above still applies somewhat, only it's an Se-Fe loop.
Socionics - the16types.info - MBTI: MBTI: Simulatedworld's Profiles for Extroverted Types
"It's quite common for ESTPs to be utterly oblivious to how little positive feedback and appreciation they show overtly for the people they care about. They may simply assume that those close to them know how important they are, and their insistence on a constantly active lifestyle may preclude them from providing the sort of emotional support that most people require higher doses of than they do. Indeed, others may wonder if their ESTP friend or family member even cares about them at all--the sudden introduction of Fe is often marked by confused or exaggerated emotional outbursts that lack context or nuance, as most ESTPs possess at least a rudimentary awareness of their emotional shortcomings, and are more than a bit insecure about their ability to show the true depth of their appreciation for the people that matter to them. They may end up filtering Fe through their preferred Se perspective, showing their appreciation through powerful displays of visual or other sensory flash and showmanship. While these responses may appear on the surface to be simple attempts to garner attention, there's often a less pronounced (but very real) desire to express and validate interpersonal camaraderie wrapped up in the ESTP's grand displays and gestures. Especially among male ESTPs, there may exist a certain anxiousness that more straightforward explanations of emotion may produce an undesirable appearance of weakness or excess sensitivity, which tertiary Fe fears may lead to social isolation and lack of any real companionship. The resultant behaviors can be confusing, to say the least."

ESTP is the best call for Williams' tendency to put on a facade of comedy while the depths of the individual was in misery. Thinkers are the types most likely to hide feelings as a sign of weakness.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I've changed my call on Williams' type. He was an EStP. SW's analysis above still applies somewhat, only it's an Se-Fe loop.
Socionics - the16types.info - MBTI: MBTI: Simulatedworld's Profiles for Extroverted Types
"It's quite common for ESTPs to be utterly oblivious to how little positive feedback and appreciation they show overtly for the people they care about. They may simply assume that those close to them know how important they are, and their insistence on a constantly active lifestyle may preclude them from providing the sort of emotional support that most people require higher doses of than they do. Indeed, others may wonder if their ESTP friend or family member even cares about them at all--the sudden introduction of Fe is often marked by confused or exaggerated emotional outbursts that lack context or nuance, as most ESTPs possess at least a rudimentary awareness of their emotional shortcomings, and are more than a bit insecure about their ability to show the true depth of their appreciation for the people that matter to them. They may end up filtering Fe through their preferred Se perspective, showing their appreciation through powerful displays of visual or other sensory flash and showmanship. While these responses may appear on the surface to be simple attempts to garner attention, there's often a less pronounced (but very real) desire to express and validate interpersonal camaraderie wrapped up in the ESTP's grand displays and gestures. Especially among male ESTPs, there may exist a certain anxiousness that more straightforward explanations of emotion may produce an undesirable appearance of weakness or excess sensitivity, which tertiary Fe fears may lead to social isolation and lack of any real companionship. The resultant behaviors can be confusing, to say the least."

ESTP is the best call for Williams' tendency to put on a facade of comedy while the depths of the individual was in misery. Thinkers are the types most likely to hide feelings as a sign of weakness.

What about ESTJ or ISTJ?

 

[Mal12345]

What about ESTJ or ISTJ?

J isn't even under consideration. Neither is I.

 

[Flâneuse]

I can't rule out ENtP yet, but I'm leaning toward ENFP.

 

[Mal12345]

I can't rule out ENtP yet, but I'm leaning toward ENFP.

Why N?

 

[Jaguar]

Why N?

Mal, you once posted that if someone misses their exit on a highway due to being lost in thought, that means the person is an N. Really, just give it up. Try knitting. Basket weaving. Try anything, but give up typology. And most of all, don't ask others "Why N?" when you don't even know what it is. Robin Williams ESTP? What exactly have you been smoking? Lol.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

J isn't even under consideration. Neither is I.

Because why? Because we're trying to type a man who did boatloads of cocaine (among other drugs) and presented a public persona completely different from his private life?

Cool, good luck with that.

 

[Jaguar]

Because why? Because we're trying to type a man who did boatloads of cocaine (among other drugs) and presented a public persona completely different from his private life?

He doesn't seem to get that. Nor does he understand the concept of compensatory extraversion.