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Stigmata

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I'm morbidly curious, what exactly are these expeditions?

I quit towards the end of Legion. I put in SO MUCH time and effort grinding and raiding for gear only to get nothing-that is not an exaggeration, not a single piece of gear ( poor luck in loot roles)- for 7 months all the while my guild kept doing the same and getting further and further ahead. It became impossible for me to ever catch up. And as great as my guildies were, fanboys will never ever the game for anything so the started to blame me saying I wasn't trying hard enough.

The story has always been complete garbage, I describe it as Michael Bay if he hated his job and his fans and was trying to get out of a contract- the players are (mostly) assholes so it wasn't as if I had any incentive to stick around.

I feel your pain on trying to gear up. My biggest pet peeve with Legion was how completely and utterly dependent your character was on gear to even be viable -- If you didn't have all the latest pieces of gear, your character was completely useless in a raid setting because others were just so far ahead of you even if you were only one tier behind.

I'm used to being able to let my ability to understand both the game and my class outshine and lack of gear, thus I got tired of playing correctly and being completely outmatched by people who were face rolling in the latest tier of gear our had 50 billion artifact power.

I miss BC/Wrath :(
 

Snow as White

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I'm morbidly curious, what exactly are these expeditions?

I quit towards the end of Legion. I put in SO MUCH time and effort grinding and raiding for gear only to get nothing-that is not an exaggeration, not a single piece of gear ( poor luck in loot roles)- for 7 months all the while my guild kept doing the same and getting further and further ahead. It became impossible for me to ever catch up. And as great as my guildies were, fanboys will never ever the game for anything so the started to blame me saying I wasn't trying hard enough.

The story has always been complete garbage, I describe it as Michael Bay if he hated his job and his fans and was trying to get out of a contract- the players are (mostly) assholes so it wasn't as if I had any incentive to stick around.

Island expeditions were touted as one of these amazing features of bfa: random map generator islands that you will encounter unending combinations of mobs and loot and rewards galore. Basically the modern version of MoP scenarios. Everyone was excited and then they tried them. They made the loot dependent on secret loot tables where you had to earn so many points with specific types of creatures to get a chance at a roll of a piece of something. And they advertised that there were 4-5 exclusive mounts, 50 pets, and hundreds upon hundreds of transmit gear. No one got any loot because of this secret system. So they’ve had to nerf the islands themselves and the loot rewards multiple times because no one was able to guess at their magic creation.

I did them a couple dozen times with friends and then we all gave up.

Edit: forgot to add that the islands look the same each time and were not what was advertised
 

Snow as White

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[MENTION=29849]Yuu[/MENTION] and [MENTION=13112]Stigmata[/MENTION] (sorry on phone so site is clunky for me)

Re: loot.

The real issue is that the hamster wheel is really only for people who continually play. If you play in spirts you will be able to get catch up gear mechanisms and with zero effort stay relatively current.

I spent a lot of time at launch getting my Druid raid gear so that she would be invited anywhere. Then I stopped playing. Popped back in last week and the quests are gearing out gear that was what I got in raids. Just there is no point in really trying anymore.

I don’t know what you guys like playing but I main healers because it’s so much easier to get into pugs that way. Legion I stayed guileless and only pugged switching between Druid and monk (alliance and horde) to get what I wanted when I wanted it.

I do miss the early days with community. I have quite a few close friends made from early wow days that I talk to regularly. And I miss having a server reputation to get into groups.

There are a lot of quality of life features that I enjoy in modern wow but I miss the heart and soul of this once epic game.
 

Yuurei

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Island expeditions were touted as one of these amazing features of bfa: random map generator islands that you will encounter unending combinations of mobs and loot and rewards galore. Basically the modern version of MoP scenarios. Everyone was excited and then they tried them. They made the loot dependent on secret loot tables where you had to earn so many points with specific types of creatures to get a chance at a roll of a piece of something. And they advertised that there were 4-5 exclusive mounts, 50 pets, and hundreds upon hundreds of transmit gear. No one got any loot because of this secret system. So they’ve had to nerf the islands themselves and the loot rewards multiple times because no one was able to guess at their magic creation.

I did them a couple dozen times with friends and then we all gave up.

Edit: forgot to add that the islands look the same each time and were not what was advertised

In other words, WoW continues to be itself; doing something which sounds new and interesting but inevitably ends up being the very same tedious crap as the rest of the game.
 

Yuurei

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[MENTION=29849]Yuu[/MENTION] and [MENTION=13112]Stigmata[/MENTION] (sorry on phone so site is clunky for me)

Re: loot.

The real issue is that the hamster wheel is really only for people who continually play. If you play in spirts you will be able to get catch up gear mechanisms and with zero effort stay relatively current.

I spent a lot of time at launch getting my Druid raid gear so that she would be invited anywhere. Then I stopped playing. Popped back in last week and the quests are gearing out gear that was what I got in raids. Just there is no point in really trying anymore.

I don’t know what you guys like playing but I main healers because it’s so much easier to get into pugs that way. Legion I stayed guileless and only pugged switching between Druid and monk (alliance and horde) to get what I wanted when I wanted it.

I do miss the early days with community. I have quite a few close friends made from early wow days that I talk to regularly. And I miss having a server reputation to get into groups.

There are a lot of quality of life features that I enjoy in modern wow but I miss the heart and soul of this once epic game.

I played continuously from the beginning to the end of Legion. I did great for most of it until about close to the end of the Expansion. I was screwed by a guild who's owner was a cowardly little shit head. I guess, he secretly hated me ( and others) but rather than just tell up-front so we could leave he just talked shit about us behind our backs and did content without inviting us ( thus we got no gear) I only realized this after he suddenly kicked me when I was about to join their chat. I have no idea why he hated me so much, he knew nothing about me.
Anyway, that was only set me back a little. I worked my ass off to do every bit of high-end content-every week- and got nothing for six months straight.

I had a Mistweaver monk, which I was to find that I REALLY enjoyed. That was the only healer I've ever played. My main was a fury WAR which was finally fun again-Panda was like a giant middle finger to melee classes. There were bosses I just didn't try to fight because I couldn't get near them.

I've been playing FF 14 now for ab it over a year and I mostly prefer it. There are one or two things I actually like better about WoW.
 

Snow as White

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In other words, WoW continues to be itself; doing something which sounds new and interesting but inevitably ends up being the very same tedious crap as the rest of the game.

It’s pretty much Groundhog Day all the time in wow.
 

Snow as White

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I played continuously from the beginning to the end of Legion. I did great for most of it until about close to the end of the Expansion. I was screwed by a guild who's owner was a cowardly little shit head. I guess, he secretly hated me ( and others) but rather than just tell up-front so we could leave he just talked shit about us behind our backs and did content without inviting us ( thus we got no gear) I only realized this after he suddenly kicked me when I was about to join their chat. I have no idea why he hated me so much, he knew nothing about me.
Anyway, that was only set me back a little. I worked my ass off to do every bit of high-end content-every week- and got nothing for six months straight.

I had a Mistweaver monk, which I was to find that I REALLY enjoyed. That was the only healer I've ever played. My main was a fury WAR which was finally fun again-Panda was like a giant middle finger to melee classes. There were bosses I just didn't try to fight because I couldn't get near them.

I've been playing FF 14 now for ab it over a year and I mostly prefer it. There are one or two things I actually like better about WoW.

Guilds have dissolved into dumpster fires with live kodisk bears over the years. It sucks and isnt surprising at your experiences. I stopped joining because of loot bullshit and Because at some point I will talk on discord and then omgs it’s a girl! And due the inevitable dick filled dms.

I’ve never tried ff14 even though I love the series.

Also I adore mistweaver!
 

Kanra Jest

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Guilds have dissolved into dumpster fires with live kodisk bears over the years. It sucks and isnt surprising at your experiences. I stopped joining because of loot bullshit and Because at some point I will talk on discord and then omgs it’s a girl! And due the inevitable dick filled dms.

I’ve never tried ff14 even though I love the series.

Also I adore mistweaver!

Hm, semi-amusing. This whole "omg it's a girl!" thing, considering it further reinforces the stereotype that, to male gamers, girls are like an alien species rarely observed outside the confines of virtual reality toon girls and distant admiration in daily life. And above all, jump on you like sharks desperate for attention. It does not paint a good picture .. :glasses:
 

Snow as White

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Hm, semi-amusing. This whole "omg it's a girl!" thing, considering it further reinforces the stereotype that, to male gamers, girls are like an alien species rarely observed outside the confines of virtual reality toon girls and distant admiration in daily life. And above all, jump on you like sharks desperate for attention. It does not paint a good picture .. :glasses:

Sadly yes. The stories I have are just too numerous. And there’s always at least one in very guild. Usually quietly hiding and waiting for you to do something stupid like say “do you need a flask for this boss?” And let the floodgates covered in bees unleash!

Obviously the vast majority of people I’ve met in games have been pleasant normal folk of both sexes. But it doesn’t take that many rotten dick pics to spoil the barrel of potential friendships.

And to be fair. I’ve met more than a few crazy girl and “girl” gamers over the years. Quotes used for the “girls” that never can seem to get a headset delivered to them in this day and age of Amazon and yet in the meantime can you give me gold? Ty <3
 

Kanra Jest

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Sadly yes. The stories I have are just too numerous. And there’s always at least one in very guild. Usually quietly hiding and waiting for you to do something stupid like say “do you need a flask for this boss?” And let the floodgates covered in bees unleash!

Obviously the vast majority of people I’ve met in games have been pleasant normal folk of both sexes. But it doesn’t take that many rotten dick pics to spoil the barrel of potential friendships.

And to be fair. I’ve met more than a few crazy girl and “girl” gamers over the years. Quotes used for the “girls” that never can seem to get a headset delivered to them in this day and age of Amazon and yet in the meantime can you give me gold? Ty <3

Dick pics? In a game? Gamers? Seriously? Well that's just disgusting. Hello ban/report/kick button. Whatever is utilized

There's becoming more and more girl gamers, and I fully support that, I just don't support as much the, uh, "booby streamer" spoiled garden variety.
 

Snow as White

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Dick pics? In a game? Gamers? Seriously? Well that's just disgusting. Hello ban/report/kick button. Whatever is utilized

There's becoming more and more girl gamers, and I fully support that, I just don't support as much the, uh, "booby streamer" spoiled garden variety.

it's more what happens when you join a guild and they have websites/discord. and then suddenly "you have a private message from X" with emphasis on private. so now i am jaded and ultra careful. :)
 

Totenkindly

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I'm sitting here on the blizzard website debating whether or not to reactivate my account with BfA -- Please talk me off the ledge...I know 2 hours after reactivating my account, I'll regret having done so.

Mixed feelings. That's coming from someone who plays at least two a hours a day (mostly leveling up old toons, so I can play different classes at max level rather than the same 1-3 classes, and thus learn gameplay). I'm planning to leave once I get a few more levelings done, I think, since I want to do other things in my life. I played earlier wow (through 2006-2009 probably?), left for some years, ended up playing end of Pandaria and barely got my cloak on one toon before WoD started, played that for six months and quit, and then came back halfway through Legion which I actually did like.

Some of the storylines in bfa are actually good. I felt bittersweet over the Blood Elf Heritage armor quest. Jaina's storyline is better than most. horde is short-shrift, though... there's some big issues in the storylines, and most of them screw Horde.

Unless you are really into World PvP, though, might not be worth it? I can say more later, I don't have time, and need to get my thoughts together. Legion was a higher-mark in terms of the gameplay, BFA doesn't build a ton on that, and again there's lots of issues regarding the forced PvP if you want any special benefits. There's also a lot of favoring of Alliance in the Assault scenarios from what i can see, having played both ends.
 

Stigmata

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Mixed feelings. That's coming from someone who plays at least two a hours a day (mostly leveling up old toons, so I can play different classes at max level rather than the same 1-3 classes, and thus learn gameplay). I'm planning to leave once I get a few more levelings done, I think, since I want to do other things in my life. I played earlier wow (through 2006-2009 probably?), left for some years, ended up playing end of Pandaria and barely got my cloak on one toon before WoD started, played that for six months and quit, and then came back halfway through Legion which I actually did like.

Some of the storylines in bfa are actually good. I felt bittersweet over the Blood Elf Heritage armor quest. Jaina's storyline is better than most. horde is short-shrift, though... there's some big issues in the storylines, and most of them screw Horde.

Unless you are really into World PvP, though, might not be worth it? I can say more later, I don't have time, and need to get my thoughts together. Legion was a higher-mark in terms of the gameplay, BFA doesn't build a ton on that, and again there's lots of issues regarding the forced PvP if you want any special benefits. There's also a lot of favoring of Alliance in the Assault scenarios from what i can see, having played both ends.

PVP is the aspect of WoW I always cared the least to partake in. To me, the purpose of those games is to pursue the story, which unveils itself through PVE environments.

I'd always thought that if I wanted to PVP, I'd go play something like League of Legends or something similar to that where you condense the MMO experience into an hours worth of gameplay. I might just wait until BfA goes on sail, at least then I'd feel like I didn't flush 50 bucks + a subscription fee down the toilet to reaffirm what I already knew anyway. I get suckered into every expansion because I believe I'm chasing those nostalgic feelings I had during the earlier days -- I still remember how much fun I had leveling my druid in TBC (running through Nagrand 5:00AM completing the kill quests to try to power run to 70) and how fun and new everything seemed back then.

Even the communal aspect WoW once held seems to always be viewed with rose-colored glasses -- for every friend you made by helping someone out in a low level area or instance, there existed a troll or asshole in a guild who relished their first semblance of authority in their life and berated others for the amusement of the crowd back in the ventrilo raiding days.
 

Totenkindly

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PVP is the aspect of WoW I always cared the least to partake in. To me, the purpose of those games is to pursue the story, which unveils itself through PVE environments.

I'd always thought that if I wanted to PVP, I'd go play something like League of Legends or something similar to that where you condense the MMO experience into an hours worth of gameplay. I might just wait until BfA goes on sail, at least then I'd feel like I didn't flush 50 bucks + a subscription fee down the toilet to reaffirm what I already knew anyway. I get suckered into every expansion because I believe I'm chasing those nostalgic feelings I had during the earlier days -- I still remember how much fun I had leveling my druid in TBC (running through Nagrand 5:00AM completing the kill quests to try to power run to 70) and how fun and new everything seemed back then.

Even the communal aspect WoW once held seems to always be viewed with rose-colored glasses -- for every friend you made by helping someone out in a low level area or instance, there existed a troll or asshole in a guild who relished their first semblance of authority in their life and berated others for the amusement of the crowd back in the ventrilo raiding days.

Yeah, okay more on the PvP thing -- basically you have War Mode (which allows for PvP throughout world) while providing a 10% bonus to XP and rewards. You can only turn War Mode on or off in your faction's capital. It makes sense to have this on while leveling outside of BfA, since you will likely never encounter other faction members (rarely) until you hit the current release material.

Because of an imbalance on Alliance vs Horde players, they made the bonus scaling per week -- I think it is based on the number of folks PvPing from each faction -- and Alliance was running for some weeks with a +30% bonus (vs Horde +10%) as the underplayed side, as an incentive to get more Alliance. This was kind of annoying. [There was a lot of horde bitching about it in the chats. I can't say I disagree, there's a lot of shit about BfA that feels Alliance-slanted.] Also, like the "Invasion" points from legion (which would appear randomly every so option and run for 5-6 hours, with special 5-6 quests + and ending cap quest, and completing means a free item drop + other rewards), they instead have "Assault" events running six hours, one event for each zone. However, they are designed to be PvP events -- usually 1-2 of the 5 quests for each faction overlap, so you are essentially forced into PvP to complete the quest. You have to complete at leave 4 out of 5 quests to trigger the end quest and finish the assault.

Having played both factions in the Assaults, I still feel like it is slanted towards Alliance based on the quests that appear and where they are in location on the map -- one of them literally happens within the gates of Boralus (the alliance "capital" for this expansion) or right outside the city. The Drustvar assault forces Horde right up to the gates (and even inside) of Arom, the major Alliance town in that region. I've tried to do the Arom assault as Horde and typically no longer do it unless I am with a 20 person group of Horde because it's pointless -- it's basically just "swarming mass of Alliance murders Horde players," it doesn't matter how good you are, you simply are not gonna survive when it's 5 vs 1 or worse. it's just a lot of needless pain. And the Voldun assault (which is horde territory) still typically results in Horde being at disadvantage -- it's near the major staging alliance town on that entire island, and there's one quest there I never waste time doing, and the others aren't exactly fun either. I honestly don't see anything comparable from the other end -- the DESIGN of the quests, the locations, the terrain, really does scan as "allliance favored".

[Which of course just pissed Horde off more. There were talks about turnign off War Mode for extended periods to make a point and ruin Blizzard's methodology, and maybe that happened because Alliance only has +15% now on their bonus for the last two weeks. And just yesterday during the Boralus assault, I heard a lot of alliance players saying Horde never shows up anymore. Well yeah -- tilt the board too far and as a matter of principle, one side will quit and do something else.]

There can be a lot of griefing with war Mode. They had to give a 30-second "no honor points" buff to at least some of the flight paths because groups were camping flight paths in the other faction's territory and murdering solo players regularly. I also regularly see raids camping important WQs or turn-in locations to murder anyone who goes there to turn in their WQs dailies. Like I said before, 5-8 on 1 isn't a fair fight no matter how good you are -- either you have a build that allows you to disappear or escape at a moment's notice, or you're pretty much screwed.

I'm more of a Horde sympathizer in the sense that I think Horde would like a fairer PvP setup where skill matters, and I think Alliance includes a lot of kids or n00bs to the game. I have played both sides in BfA PvP and think that Horde players generally know what they are doing. I have almost beat the pants off a solo or two-team or Alliance folks with my Disc Priest (which is reedic), for example; and typically when Alliance wins a fight, it's because they just get together a 5-10 person team and run through and murder Horde soloists, then they run off if Horde puts together a counter raid. I really hate when I'm just passing through and a group of ten chase after me and murder me, and I have to do a corpse run when I was trying to get somewhere. Anyway, both sides do have some skeevy and/or inept players, I do think Horde overall has more experience with PvP and it shows both in what they do and how well they play. Alliance tends to just make Murder Crowds and run the board.

---

All my bitching there, so the positive ... I am not really a PvP player, I rarely even played the battlegrounds or warfronts, etc. Never dueled. So I've been learning about my classes in terms of PvP based on my experiences in this release. I think the griefing is annoying, but I can't totally call it griefing because Blizzard rewards it so I understand why it happens -- people are doing what makes sense based on what the game rewards now. This is what Blizzard wanted, and if they don't, they should change it.

However, I've also had a lot of fun with impromptu PvP when it's not simply a "screw over other faction players in the most unfair way possible." Like, on occasion a legitimate fight breaks out with equal numbers on both sides and it's pretty cool.... especially if more players on each side happen to come by and jump in.

Once there was a WQ elite that you need a small raid group to kill... and an alliance and horde raid group showed up at exactly the same time to kill the same elite boss. It was just insane -- a massive PvP free-for-all while this elite mob boss was charging through the center of the melee smashing through people, etc. So everyone's trying to take each other out while also taking out the boss and get credit for the kill. One of my friends talks about a raid that kept scaling up -- each faction built a bigger response, culminating in a raid of Alliance soldiers using gliders to land on the horde force in their city, and it was just total mayhem. I also once had this cool moment with my pally, where I rode away from a crowd of 6-10 Alliance chasing me -- and I kept stopping and turning to see where they were, and when they saw me do that, they kept coming -- and they chased me right THROUGH a Horde outpost (both crazy and audacious, as they are blowing through 120 gold elites to catch me) right to the edge of a tall cliff as I'm trying to sprint in Plate -- and I jumped off the cliff and popped a glider and rode the whole way to the 'port out point. It was crazy and exhilarating. That's the kind of open world stuff that is cool.

I also would say that some times people show honor. I have seen both factions wait for a lone player to finish kill a WQ mob, rather than just murdering the player who is already wounded from the fight, and folks also not attack the other faction folks who are waiting nearby. (Of course, I've also seen the opposite -- and I guess part of the adrenaline is not knowing which it is going to be by the end).

Basically if you hate War Mode, you can turn it off. But then you can't participate in anything involving PvP, unless it's one of the specific PvP things (like the battlegrounds, etc.)
 

Snow as White

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Yeah, okay more on the PvP thing -- basically you have War Mode (which allows for PvP throughout world) while providing a 10% bonus to XP and rewards. You can only turn War Mode on or off in your faction's capital. It makes sense to have this on while leveling outside of BfA, since you will likely never encounter other faction members (rarely) until you hit the current release material.

Because of an imbalance on Alliance vs Horde players, they made the bonus scaling per week -- I think it is based on the number of folks PvPing from each faction -- and Alliance was running for some weeks with a +30% bonus (vs Horde +10%) as the underplayed side, as an incentive to get more Alliance. This was kind of annoying. [There was a lot of horde bitching about it in the chats. I can't say I disagree, there's a lot of shit about BfA that feels Alliance-slanted.] Also, like the "Invasion" points from legion (which would appear randomly every so option and run for 5-6 hours, with special 5-6 quests + and ending cap quest, and completing means a free item drop + other rewards), they instead have "Assault" events running six hours, one event for each zone. However, they are designed to be PvP events -- usually 1-2 of the 5 quests for each faction overlap, so you are essentially forced into PvP to complete the quest. You have to complete at leave 4 out of 5 quests to trigger the end quest and finish the assault.

Having played both factions in the Assaults, I still feel like it is slanted towards Alliance based on the quests that appear and where they are in location on the map -- one of them literally happens within the gates of Boralus (the alliance "capital" for this expansion) or right outside the city. The Drustvar assault forces Horde right up to the gates (and even inside) of Arom, the major Alliance town in that region. I've tried to do the Arom assault as Horde and typically no longer do it unless I am with a 20 person group of Horde because it's pointless -- it's basically just "swarming mass of Alliance murders Horde players," it doesn't matter how good you are, you simply are not gonna survive when it's 5 vs 1 or worse. it's just a lot of needless pain. And the Voldun assault (which is horde territory) still typically results in Horde being at disadvantage -- it's near the major staging alliance town on that entire island, and there's one quest there I never waste time doing, and the others aren't exactly fun either. I honestly don't see anything comparable from the other end -- the DESIGN of the quests, the locations, the terrain, really does scan as "allliance favored".

[Which of course just pissed Horde off more. There were talks about turnign off War Mode for extended periods to make a point and ruin Blizzard's methodology, and maybe that happened because Alliance only has +15% now on their bonus for the last two weeks. And just yesterday during the Boralus assault, I heard a lot of alliance players saying Horde never shows up anymore. Well yeah -- tilt the board too far and as a matter of principle, one side will quit and do something else.]

There can be a lot of griefing with war Mode. They had to give a 30-second "no honor points" buff to at least some of the flight paths because groups were camping flight paths in the other faction's territory and murdering solo players regularly. I also regularly see raids camping important WQs or turn-in locations to murder anyone who goes there to turn in their WQs dailies. Like I said before, 5-8 on 1 isn't a fair fight no matter how good you are -- either you have a build that allows you to disappear or escape at a moment's notice, or you're pretty much screwed.

I'm more of a Horde sympathizer in the sense that I think Horde would like a fairer PvP setup where skill matters, and I think Alliance includes a lot of kids or n00bs to the game. I have played both sides in BfA PvP and think that Horde players generally know what they are doing. I have almost beat the pants off a solo or two-team or Alliance folks with my Disc Priest (which is reedic), for example; and typically when Alliance wins a fight, it's because they just get together a 5-10 person team and run through and murder Horde soloists, then they run off if Horde puts together a counter raid. I really hate when I'm just passing through and a group of ten chase after me and murder me, and I have to do a corpse run when I was trying to get somewhere. Anyway, both sides do have some skeevy and/or inept players, I do think Horde overall has more experience with PvP and it shows both in what they do and how well they play. Alliance tends to just make Murder Crowds and run the board.

---

All my bitching there, so the positive ... I am not really a PvP player, I rarely even played the battlegrounds or warfronts, etc. Never dueled. So I've been learning about my classes in terms of PvP based on my experiences in this release. I think the griefing is annoying, but I can't totally call it griefing because Blizzard rewards it so I understand why it happens -- people are doing what makes sense based on what the game rewards now. This is what Blizzard wanted, and if they don't, they should change it.

However, I've also had a lot of fun with impromptu PvP when it's not simply a "screw over other faction players in the most unfair way possible." Like, on occasion a legitimate fight breaks out with equal numbers on both sides and it's pretty cool.... especially if more players on each side happen to come by and jump in.

Once there was a WQ elite that you need a small raid group to kill... and an alliance and horde raid group showed up at exactly the same time to kill the same elite boss. It was just insane -- a massive PvP free-for-all while this elite mob boss was charging through the center of the melee smashing through people, etc. So everyone's trying to take each other out while also taking out the boss and get credit for the kill. One of my friends talks about a raid that kept scaling up -- each faction built a bigger response, culminating in a raid of Alliance soldiers using gliders to land on the horde force in their city, and it was just total mayhem. That's the kind of open world stuff that is cool.

I also would say that some times people show honor. I have seen both factions wait for a lone player to finish kill a WQ mob, rather than just murdering the player who is already wounded from the fight, and folks also not attack the other faction folks who are waiting nearby. (Of course, I've also seen the opposite -- and I guess part of the adrenaline is not knowing which it is going to be by the end).

Basically if you hate War Mode, you can turn it off. But then you can't participate in anything involving PvP, unless it's one of the specific PvP things (like the battlegrounds, etc.)

I will just pop in to say that I play both A and H and sometimes forget which faction I'm playing because everything is the same. The same complaints in general, the same ratio of idiots to Stanley nickels, etc. I played more Horde than Alliance in Legion because the CRZing of pvp realms made my reasonable 50/50 pvp realms impossible to play Alliance on because it was 100:1 Horde to Alliance since Blizzard can't figure out how to do simple things correctly.

I think some aspects of the game slant towards each faction, but there is a definitely not an Alliance slant from the devs. So many Alliance jokes that they make when they could have figured out better ways to balance faction issues years ago instead of ignoring it... as is their occasional wont. Idk. It's hard to be married into either faction at this point since the war feels so ludicrous. Just wish they would do away with faction crap so the game could focus on better things like an actual story that makes sense and doesn't feel like it was written by a 15 year old.
 

Totenkindly

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AS far as the rest goes....

Let's just say there are lots of options.
you can do raids (lfr, normal, heroic, mythic).
you can do dungeons (normal, heroic, mythic).
You can do regular PvP things.
You can do warfronts (like Scenarios but as a raid group).
You can do dailies over in either Arathi or Darkshore.
You can do island expeditions to build your Azerite necklace levels.
There's the daily WQs for items, money, supplies (for your missions), or crafting items.
You can do missions from your mission table with your collected followers.
You can do the weekly event (Timewalking dungeons, mythics, pet battles, WQs tallies, etc).

IOW, there's a hell of a lot to do and probably not enough time to do it all.
You also can get a lot of high level drops NOT doing raids and dungeons now.

So guess what? I haven't really done any raids except if it was required by a class quest. Each class/faction line typically forces 1-3 dungeons to complete the storyline. Since then I haven't really done dungeons either, unless there was a WQ high-powered item attached. There's just not enough time + it's such a pain in the ass to deal with PUGs, esp on a raid level. The only dungeons i do are the timewalking ones, which do drop okay items that are better for transmog + if you collect enough timewalker seals you can buy a few mounts and/or gear again for transmog.

It looks like you can have guilds AND groups now (you can only be in one guild, but I think you can belong to different groups). Their interface still sucks, especially the guild lister. In fact, this is the most disappointing social aspect of the game. I am friends with about 10 other people I know IRL (all on different servers), but no one plays together ever. For the casual player who wants to do their own thing (rather than raid), it's hard to make friends I think. It's an MMO but even if I want to game with friends, I never do/can. I get tired too of having random guild invites show up when I'm running my priest (for example)... without any pre-talk. I don't know anything about your guild, and if you'd bothered to talk, you'd know I'm not into hardcore raiding, so... stop wasting my time. But anyway... for being a game with lots of people, it still ends up feeling pretty lonely for me anyway.

The game itself is pretty. Lots of cool items. More differences in the specs. more variety. lots of ability to go back and run Raids solo for transmog. But there's a lot of "noise" as well.
 

Totenkindly

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I will just pop in to say that I play both A and H and sometimes forget which faction I'm playing because everything is the same. The same complaints in general, the same ratio of idiots to Stanley nickels, etc. I played more Horde than Alliance in Legion because the CRZing of pvp realms made my reasonable 50/50 pvp realms impossible to play Alliance on because it was 100:1 Horde to Alliance since Blizzard can't figure out how to do simple things correctly.

I think some aspects of the game slant towards each faction, but there is a definitely not an Alliance slant from the devs. So many Alliance jokes that they make when they could have figured out better ways to balance faction issues years ago instead of ignoring it... as is their occasional wont. Idk. It's hard to be married into either faction at this point since the war feels so ludicrous. Just wish they would do away with faction crap so the game could focus on better things like an actual story that makes sense and doesn't feel like it was written by a 15 year old.

Well, I personally do not share that experience... and all of my original characters were Alliance. I only played Horde extensively since last year.

I think the current storylines gave a much better storyline to Jaina and pretty much screwed over Horde. I actually found her storyline moving, which wasn't fair because I wanted to keep hating her. ;) But it was decently done at least in terms of her character. The whole bit with the tree and Sylvannis has been rather ridiculous. I've played the Horde storyline through too and it's just not that personally interesting, like Jaina's is. The whole conflict also seems very contrived; we just banded together to save the world from the Legion, but then they had to play up a misunderstanding into some ridiculous faction conflict.

Overall, I've found a lot of the storylines (not just from this release) kind of dumbed down and juvenile, honestly... and confusing. I hate the way they recycle storylines and characters so much that I can't tell what the actual character's throughline is. Like, we had the orcs, but then we had the orcs again, and the legion showed up years ago but then there was the Legion invasion, and... Kiljaeden shows up as a big bad in various expansions, but I thought we killed him, and....

Like srsly, I need a wall and about 10,000 post-its and yarn balls to try to piece this together. Not that I care to. I also don't care about the orcs and would like to not have any more expansions that recycle their same conflicts. (Oh look, beat Hellscream. Next expansion: Oh look, beat hellscream again. But a different hellscream? Maybe? Not sure.)
 

Yuurei

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As far as PvP goes, it really depends on the server ( the ratio of one v the other, I think) for example, on my server Allience losing every PvP match was basically a meme. From what I’ve from my freinds it still is.

Personally, I’ve always hated the Horde v Allience part of the stiry. I think it’s a perfect example o& how...immature and unogigional the writers are. Every expansion there is some greater villain than either allience or horde and in the end they are forced to work together and inevitably, they find some petty bullshit to start murdering each other again.
If I thought the writers had even an ounce on nuance or tact I might assume that that is the writer’s point: a commentary on the absurdity of different factions trying to survive in the same world which is constatly under siege by greater beings, but this is Blizz and they can’t write thier way of a paper fucking bag. So, no, it’s really that just brainless and ham-fisted.
 

Snow as White

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Well, I personally do not share that experience... and all of my original characters were Alliance. I only played Horde extensively since last year.

I think the current storylines gave a much better storyline to Jaina and pretty much screwed over Horde. I actually found her storyline moving, which wasn't fair because I wanted to keep hating her. ;) But it was decently done at least in terms of her character. The whole bit with the tree and Sylvannis has been rather ridiculous. I've played the Horde storyline through too and it's just not that personally interesting, like Jaina's is. The whole conflict also seems very contrived; we just banded together to save the world from the Legion, but then they had to play up a misunderstanding into some ridiculous faction conflict.

Overall, I've found a lot of the storylines (not just from this release) kind of dumbed down and juvenile, honestly... and confusing. I hate the way they recycle storylines and characters so much that I can't tell what the actual character's throughline is. Like, we had the orcs, but then we had the orcs again, and the legion showed up years ago but then there was the Legion invasion, and... Kiljaeden shows up as a big bad in various expansions, but I thought we killed him, and....

Like srsly, I need a wall and about 10,000 post-its and yarn balls to try to piece this together. Not that I care to. I also don't care about the orcs and would like to not have any more expansions that recycle their same conflicts. (Oh look, beat Hellscream. Next expansion: Oh look, beat hellscream again. But a different hellscream? Maybe? Not sure.)

yeah, this is just my experience playing both factions. i was 90% alliance for most of my playing career and went horde in legion for the stories and to try new things. saw the same kind of complaining about alliance only ganging up on horde and how honorable horde is. then i switch to alliance and boom everyone's complaining about ganking horde. i've personally encountered way more childish camping from horde players these past two expacs where they will follow me across zones and corpse camp me until i just log out. i've experienced that as horde maybe once. but it didnt help that my pvp realm got CRZed with Mal Ganis.

i like the idea of war mode it's just that it's been too little too late at this point. the bonuses are semi attractive but not enough unless i'm on my well geared druid since i can smeld my way out of a lot of things, or just murder the person harassing me.

im not up to date with the latest patch so i don't know how this raid plays out for story purposes for either faction. the jaina storyline definitely had more heart. i am only part way through the horde side (just got tired of the hamster wheel.)

for horde it's clear why they are going into Uldir. Alliance? zero story leading to Uldir other than the horde went thataway! seems silly. i know there is some patch that lets horde players choose their allegiance. would be nice to have things like that crop up more frequently for all involved but ofc it's going to be impossible to do much that really matters since #mmo.

the entire conflict feels super contrived, especially after legion's epic let's all work together theme.

and i agree that too much of the story gets rehashed and recycled. i think some major issues they have are that they started wow on the hoofbeats of success that was WC3 and they have run the gamut of most memorable WC3 characters already. Jaina is really one of the last, along with Sylvanas, that means anything and are still prominent.

sometimes i wish they would have an expac called "and the champion takes a fucking vacation for 2 years" and we sandbox fix all the shit we've blown up killing big bads for 15 years. and then we finally get player housing. and the raids are, let's build this barn faster than the amish would! etc
 

Yuurei

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I’ve never recieved a dick-pic, thank God. But then I never join voice or any sort of chat.

I did frequently come across a particular dbl standard though;

If my DPS was not great, people responded differently deoending on whether ir not they knew my gender.

If they thougt I was male it was : We need to get you some better gear!
If they knew that I am female I got: Do you know your rotaaaaaatiiiiiiiooooooooon?

I quit in the middle of a raid because if this. On one goddamned boss fight I recieved about 4 messages asking if I knew hiw to play my class. I was in the raid to get better gear because mine was awful.

Eventually I got fed up and said raid-wide “ In the time it took you to lecture me you could have easily check out my gear!” and then abandoned.
 
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