Patrick Stewart will reprise his role as Jean-Luc Picard

[Totenkindly]

nostalgia is failing you as you grow beyond it. Welcome to beyond the final frontier.

Yes. I need more.




I've really wanted to watch DSN for years now, but just haven't committed. Part of it is because I don't really connect well with Sisko. Some of it is Avery Brooks' delivery, I feel like i'm not getting the real person inside, and even his emotional displays feel constructed somehow to me personally. His character felt at least in Season 1 like it was just reflecting what was going on around him rather than the character, and I couldn't quite get a bead on who he was. I remember liking Odo and the Cardassian by Andrew Robinson and some of the other characters better because at least I could sense who they were and they were fairly coherent between their inside and outside. Like, I really liked the pilot from a plot/writing perspective, but Brooks' performance took me somewhat out of the episode. It's not helping to hear some of you saying his character was flip-flopping throughout.


As far as my feelings towards Kirk -- there's a bit of nostalgia there. I think he's kind of silly in some ways, but the camp is part of the fun. He is totally not my personality, but I "get" him, and I think a lot of people do -- it's all obvious enough that Chris Pine can channel him perfectly in the reboot, and I kind of like Pine's version better, he feels a little less caricature than Shatner's version. I dunno, getting back to nostalgia again.... obviously Spock was my favorite when I was young because I "got" him the easiest, but the original Trek was very much a TV show, it followed its own template with monster of the week and the character archetypes (id, ego, superego; heart, mind, and gut; etc), that is how it all played out. I thought Wrath of Khan was the greatest simply because it took all of this and forced the characters to grow a bit, especially forcing Kirk to accept his own mortality and mortality in general. It's all about aging and dealing with reality and accepting the limitations of life. It moved beyond the nostalgia of the TV show despite its callbacks and became an actual story. (Khan deals with his own mortality by denying it and embracing himself as a force of nature. He couldn't accept that the past was the past and thus fell prey to his own fixations.)

 

[The Cat]

Yes. I need more.




I've really wanted to watch DSN for years now, but just haven't committed. Part of it is because I don't really connect well with Sisko. Some of it is Avery Brooks' delivery, I feel like i'm not getting the real person inside, and even his emotional displays feel constructed somehow to me personally. His character felt at least in Season 1 like it was just reflecting what was going on around him rather than the character, and I couldn't quite get a bead on who he was. I remember liking Odo and the Cardassian by Andrew Robinson and some of the other characters better because at least I could sense who they were and they were fairly coherent between their inside and outside. Like, I really liked the pilot from a plot/writing perspective, but Brooks' performance took me somewhat out of the episode. It's not helping to hear some of you saying his character was flip-flopping throughout.


As far as my feelings towards Kirk -- there's a bit of nostalgia there. I think he's kind of silly in some ways, but the camp is part of the fun. He is totally not my personality, but I "get" him, and I think a lot of people do -- it's all obvious enough that Chris Pine can channel him perfectly in the reboot, and I kind of like Pine's version better, he feels a little less caricature than Shatner's version. I dunno, getting back to nostalgia again.... obviously Spock was my favorite when I was young because I "got" him the easiest, but the original Trek was very much a TV show, it followed its own template with monster of the week and the character archetypes (id, ego, superego; heart, mind, and gut; etc), that is how it all played out. I thought Wrath of Khan was the greatest simply because it took all of this and forced the characters to grow a bit, especially forcing Kirk to accept his own mortality and mortality in general. It's all about aging and dealing with reality and accepting the limitations of life.

I dont think his character flips flops. I found him believable. You know you cant trust most geeks when it comes to their fandom follies. Armchair character arcing being what it is. Part of the reason so many other DS9 characters were able to grow so large is because Avery Brooks wasnt trying to make the show all about the Captain.

 

[Totenkindly]

I dont think his character flips flops. I found him believable. You know you cant trust most geeks when it comes to their fandom follies. Armchair character arcing being what it is. Part of the reason so many other DS9 characters were able to grow so large is because Avery Brooks wasnt trying to make the show all about the Captain.

okay. I'll try to keep an open mind about it. It doesn't help with my inability to connect with his acting, but as you note, I very much felt like it wasn't a show centered around the "captain" figure although I only watched a season of it I think many years ago. I do remember thinking fondly of it in the sense it was where the ferrengi finally found their niche -- TNG made a mistake of trying to make them "fearsome" and they ended up seeming laughable, but this was their glory days, they were playing a more suited role and quite well. I also really enjoyed the trill concept, and it was one of the first "stepping beyond gender" TV moments at that time period.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

DS9 was a show that made the captain's arc central and integral without ever elevating him above the ensemble and making it all about him. Voyager did this too but to lesser effect. I think Trek works best as an ensemble, it's why I have a hard time enjoying TOS, which is just the Kirk and Spock and sometimes Bones hour.

One thing I'll give JJverse credit for was trying to make it about more than just Kirk.

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, JJ has the Gen X schtick going for him -- live together, die alone. The universe is a big place with lots of empty space and can feel cold, and what we have is each other. It showed up in Lost, it showed up in MI3, it showed up in Super 8, it showed up in his Trek reboots. It's too bad he's lost his way since.

But yeah TOS never really got beyond the original trio, and the core of that was Kirk and Spock because they played so nicely off each other. I don't really remember how deeply Bones got explored individually compared to the other two, I think he mostly was there as a foil and/or mediator.

 

[The Cat]

Saw 15 seconds of Picard. I've heard all your concerns, and they're valid, but I'm on board with it. Why? I like the aesthetic. The EMH dresses like me. And is also a hologram, and thus I feel like my interests are being looked after.

My folks have been watching it and Discovery, theyre long time obsessive trek fans and they like both shows. I think discovery is pretty too, bt im not sure how I id with the aesthetic, Picard on the other hand. even the lighting was on point. (I read books for story, I watch movies for aesthetics, tv shows gotta lean more towards aesthetic because of the high rate of cancels and short lived runs. hard to develop stories without good use of aesthetics.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

The aesthetics are a secondary concern for me. It's understandable that 20 years on from TNG, there would be an evolution of design and aesthetics. My issues are more with blatant disregard to continuity, both in established lore as well as in continuity of characterization. I've already posted multiple videos that have shown side-by-side comparisons of Picard now and then. I understand characters will evolve, not saying he should be the same Picard as at the end of Nemesis, but this doesn't really feel like a natural progression the character would have taken and even when references to his TNG years are made, they often reveal the writers haven't done their research, for instance Picard claiming the exact opposite of how his character acted or felt in the past. We see for instance he says his faith in Data was never in question, and yet that is clearly not the case if you go back and watch the series. His faith in Data was on occasion shaken, and for that matter, the show didn't just start with Picard having a ton of faith in all of his officers, but rather showed him gradually building strong relationships with them and establishing more faith in them over a period of time.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Data kind of forgot about his mucus

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Riker kind of forgot abou--aww fuck it

 

[The Cat]

Data kind of forgot about his mucus

You mean to tell me you can be a fan of William T. Riker and not believe for a MOMENT that he didnt do that on purpose? Nay Sir. I dont buy it, that was no accidnet, that was a playful prank. You know Riker used to prank the senior staff on the enterprise.

 

[The Cat]

Riker kind of forgot abou--aww fuck it

Its good to see some MAquis sentiments have gotten put into will by his brother Tom.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

whatever did happen to Thomas Riker? Still in prison for helping the maquis? Probably cell mates with a Naussicaan named Biff who made Thomas his prison wife.

 

[The Cat]

whatever did happen to Thomas Riker? Still in prison for helping the maquis? Probably cell mates with a Naussicaan named Biff who made Thomas his prison wife.

Pretty sure Kira got him out after Odo returned to the Link.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Pretty sure Kira got him out after Odo returned to the Link.

Kira was creaming so hard over Tom Riker.

Still, I imagine Odo totally ruined her for other men. Imagine the shapes he could make and the places he could reach...

No solid man could ever live up to that.

 

[The Cat]

Kira was creaming so hard over Tom Riker.

Still, I imagine Odo totally ruined her for other men. Imagine the shapes he could make and the places he could reach...

No solid man could ever live up to that.

Surely you dont think its as shallow as all that?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Surely you dont think its as shallow as all that?

No, it's not really a sex and the city episode, I was just joking.

 

[The Cat]

No, it's not really a sex and the city episode, I was just joking.

LOL I would watch that hybrid show.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

LOL I would watch that hybrid show.

this is the closest thing I could find

 

[The Cat]

I think they should just make it there are still nostalgia teats to milk. For example Yarr a good Clone Tasha. About all the Tasha Yarr clones that are no doubt floating around the galaxy, the fans did like her once after all.

 

[Totenkindly]

I finished episode 5, so I have two more to go until I am caught up... but then another airs Thursday, eh.

subtitle comment:

This is funny: The Amazon Prime stream I see has subtitles for the Romulan but they were all in some foreign language (not sure whether it is German or Swede) and for some messed-up reason I thought it was part of the show and they were spelling out Romulan for me to read. I was like, "Huh, Romulan really looks a lot like some kind of European language..." Then later I realized it was probably actually for whatever country it was airing in... although it was only the Romulan that was subtitled, so maybe not? I'm still a little confused, I guess. tl;dr I was reading subtitles in some other language which doesn't still help me understand the Romulan being spoken.

I still have some mixed feelings on this. I appreciate Picard being shown as flawed, he can be the idealist who sometimes overlooks the hard realities that people suffer to support him, and he can be bad at sharing his true feelings (I was really happy that Elnor chewed him out after he asked why Picard wanted him and Picard gave him some stupid idealistic quest-type answer when Elnor just wanted to feel WANTED), but of course they all end up helping him anyway. So it still feels just like this eclectic mix of outsiders/rebels who aren't actually that edgy...

... and then the show will throw in random and abrupt bits of hardcore edginess that leaves me shouting, "holy SHIT" at the screen because it catches me off-guard.

- Elnor lops off the ex-Senator's head after Picard picks a fight for some reason
- Seven of Nine vaporizes an old enemy of hers after it looks like Picard convinced her to spare her
- The borg is operated on without any painkillers, having his parts ripped out.

These are not pretty deaths either.

I mean, I appreciate the effort, but it feels like what writers do when they want to be edgy but aren't actually edgy. I think Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul (for example) are actually pretty edgy and dangerous, so they don't always have to do something extreme to show how edgy they are. It's like STP has an "Edginess Writer" who goes through the finished happy scripts and inserts crazy Wow moments.

So it still feels like Star Trek, but I'm always kind of indifferent while watching it. I don't really feel much or care much emotionally about what is happening. Some people can find value in the ideas of the show, I guess, and maybe the Trek audience is happy with a fixed format and the conventions, but I want to feel something when I involve myself in a story about people.

Also
- be careful with casting. Bjayzl looks WAY too much like a young Marina Sirtis, until she opens her mouth. It was confusing.
- There are some real hotties on this show, at least out of character. Thinking mostly of Evan Evagora (he's too pretty, like Legolas, on the show) and Harry Treadaway, but...