Avengers Infinity War

[Totenkindly]

... social media embargo lifts in 15 minutes.
... review embargo lifts tomorrow (Tuesday), at 6pm EST

The LA premiere was tonight.

Avengers: Infinity War Embargo: When You Can Read Reviews

Let's really hope this doesn't suck.
Although the Russos have a decent track record with MCU flix so far.

 

[Merced]

My #1 priority for this movie was Shuri making the Science Bros feel inadequate and one of the trailers already confirmed this so I don't see how this won't be nominated for Best Picture.

 

[Introspector]

I have a nagging feeling that the movie is going to be bloated and bad but people will love it anyway and it'll become one of those movies where you're not allowed to criticize it. Rotten Tomatoes has already given this movie more coverage than any other movie in the past six months or so.

This article still cracks me up. It's just so pointless.
5 Things We Learned From the New Avengers: Infinity War Trailer << Rotten Tomatoes – Movie and TV News

 

[Merced]

Just saw it and I'd probably rate it 8/10. The ending validated the trailer scavenging, imo.

I don't know if this thread is spoiler friendly, so I won't say anything much. However it was much better than Age of Ultron about having a lot on screen without giving you a headache.

 

[Totenkindly]

Just got back from it. I actually liked it a lot but it was not a perfect film by any stretch, not the strongest MCU film, and I have a headache now from watching it, I think. I will put any revelations of actual plot events in spoilers, but talk about general stuff openly.

I generally agree with the social media commentary about it which can be generally positive but also can refer to the film's "noise." I'm just not really sure how they could have done it DIFFERENTLY, considering everything they wanted to pack into that run-time. Also, while it is a single movie and people want to describe it based on that, the reality is that it is not just one film but the culmination of like 20 films -- a lot of groundwork was already laid for this film, and Infinity War basically assumes you have seen the other films so you're aware of the characters, their relationships with each other, the severity of what Thanos is doing, etc. It doesn't "breathe" as a single isolated film because it has assumed you've already done a lot of natural breathing in the other films, and this is a deep drive where you're just holding your breath.

One criticism I have is that it starts out BOOM, hitting the ground running, rather than giving time to get anchored into it. There's heavy stuff happening in the first ten minutes. It doesn't start like any other MCU movie I can recall. The whole movie has a feeling of being on edge, it's relentless. And there are a LOT of action sequences. If there are talking sequences, they are usually comic relief banter or something similar meant to just keep the film from getting too weighed down in the severity of what Thanos is trying to accomplish. But there are some dramatic moments / personally heavy scenes For example, I really like the interplay between Spiderman and Iron Man, but this was set up in the Spiderman: Homecoming film, where we see Iron Man (the perpetual playboy) suddenly trying to be an inexperienced dad / role model for a precocious teenager -- there are some moments in this film that are pretty meaningful and intense because they lean into our past knowledge of Stark and Parker.

I'm impressed they found a way to split 20-25 superheroes into various subplots, making use of everyone decently, and making it make some amount of sense. I've seen films that have abysmally failed in this regard. We've also seen how the ball was dropped by Justice League, which barely set up any of the film in the prior DC universe outings and was just kind of a mess. I think this film ended up being dark due to the severity of what was going on, while still feeling much lighter than Zack Synder's DC outings (which are just broody if not dismal).

They managed to make Thanos somewhat sympathetic, although it was overdone in a few spots and I wish they had had a lighter touch. Josh Brolin (who I was so sick of hearing about in film after film, I groaned when he was cast here) was actually quite excellent; I was wrong in my initial impression. One thing I really liked was more intuited subtext about Gamora and Nebula. We have their discussions of their relationship to each other and Thanos in the GotG films, but here what I really picked up on was: (1) Thanos really does see Gamora as his "favored" daughter and possesses actual feelings towards her in that respect, and (2) I don't think he really cares for Nebula much. Or she's just another patsy. Which is the irony... she views Thanos as a hated FATHER, whereas I really think he just never really viewed her as family in the same way. So when he replaced parts of her body with machine parts (referred to in other films), she took it as something very personal; I think he was just actually being capricious or indifferent, but never really viewed her as "daughter" per se... or more like she was a failed experiment, she just didn't have what it took like Gamora did. It's one of the more successful "deeper" parts of this film, which is lacking mostly in those kinds of moments.

But it's just all so damned much. Like, I don't how to have changed it, but I'm exhausted after watching it -- it's like being cranked up to 10 for 2.5 hours, without a lot of natural ebb and flow.

At least the fights in the film feel like they have consequences. There always felt like there was a lot at stake... and that anyone could die at any moment, no tricks. And the last 20 minutes of the film were just as ballsy as hell. Justice League was pretty lame in comparison, they didn't have the balls to really go where the material could have led. the MCU did not disappoint in that regard. Yes, we know there is a sequel in a year that will be a story following this one that will probably do something to course-correct, but fucking hell man, bravo on just really having guts to take things there and then drop it for a year.

So I'm kinda on the same response as merced. I would probably give in a 7.5/10 or possibly an 8, although YMMV depending on your attitude towards MCU in general and whether you like the kind of things this film/MCU dishes up. I'm just not sure what they could have done to improve it, due to the Infinity Stone storyline. It also worked better than it would have because they have made so many films setting this up.

My favorite MCU film is still The Winter Soldier.

 

[Totenkindly]

As far as actual plot spoilers and discussion such things... and yes, these are hardcore spoilers do not read if you haven't seen the film:

The overall ending + Dr. Strange:

I felt like they very clearly telegraphed that the devastating ending to the film is still going to work out. We just have no freaking idea how, or what that means. Dr. Strange uses the Time stone to search 14+ million possible sequences of events, and they only win in ... one of them. So we shall assume that this IS the "one" scenario in which the heroes win. ("this is the only way.") And Strange couldn't tell anyone what it was because he didn't want it to be derailed. If you think Strange has a stick up his ass much of the time, you might be right -- but remember that he went with this scenario even knowing from his review that he wouldn't survive the initial conclusion... and maybe won't be saved later. But he was willing to go with it in hopes that many would in fact eventually be saved.

And yeah, this is pure Marvel comics, when they do their universe one-shots.... where everything gets mucked up and then fixed later. So in a sense it's annoying, but it's also very reflective of the source (a point in its favor)... and we don't know the actual restorative state yet. It's very likely some heroes will not be returning, even if some other clearly will be because they've got more movies on the slate.

But I love this kind of thing in story telling... when the very thing that looks like a defeat ends up being the only way forward. It's typical for book 2's in trilogies, and I think it works here.

Thor:

I kinda never liked Thor much. I hated his films the most, although Ragnarok was palatable. And giving him his eye back feels kind of lame. But when he pops back into Wakanda with that axe....i felt a real sense of awe for him that I usually have never felt. this was freaking THOR. it was great.

Vision:

I really could not imagine a way that Vision walked out of this film alive, so I'm not surprised at the outcome. What sucks was watching him die twice. I only cried twice in the film, and the main one was when SW was killing Vision by destroying the stone in his head before Thanos could get it. It was so great. all I could think of was his birth, when he flips out but then flies to the windows and stops, contemplating, lost in the wonder of this world he has found himself born into, and also seeing his own reflection there, he's actually got physical form rather than being a mind, and so he can actually see himself outside himself -- it was so profound, one of the best moments from Ultron for me. And this was the same vision, kind of awed by the brief life he has managed to have, and having someone care about him, and feeling himself care about another, and being gratefully willing to lay it all down to save everyone else, even beings he's never met. It was such a gift of true sacrifice and necessity... and then Thanos basically brought him back just to rape him so to speak and rip the damn stone out of his head. I felt sick. Easily one of the best "feeling" moments in a film that was more kinetic.

Spidey and Iron Man:

They did a really nice job with the interaction here, Stark trying to be cool and collected, Peter trying to be obedient and helpful, but it's like when Dash tries to help his mom and Dad in the Incredibles except where Dash doesn't survive the experience. Peter's Spiderman costume on high octane was so freaking cool and Peter does himself proud. But it's that last shot that was my other "crying" jag in the film... where Peter doesn't "feel so good" and then Stark pulls him in and holds him to keep him calm as he disintegrates so his last memory is knowing someone cared about him. It just tears your heart out.

Hawkeye:

So Clint does not appear in this film -- he's hiding out with his fam somewhere to protect them. Makes sense. It doesn't mean he was spared by the end of this film. My suspicion is that he'll show in the next, a survivor of the Thanos purge, but basically members of his family did not -- so now he's out to fix things somehow.

Thanos' plan:

So when he kills half of the universe' inhabitants... is it a uniform wipeout? Because if it is entirely random on a universal scale, there are GOING to be pockets where EVERYONE dies and other pockets where NO ONE dies. Earth seems to be a 50/50 bit, conveniently for the writers to create dramatic impact. But feasibly everyone or no one might have died on Earth.

The sad thing is that Thanos' plan actually makes sense on SOME level, although you'd think there would be other solutions. But when he talks about how he would want it to be truly random, where both the rich and the poor, the powerful and the weak, could be selected for extermination, well, that's interesting. Note how he seems to have escaped himself... but anyway, in the end we do see both poor and rich people affected, young and old, make and female. There is no discernment, except conveniently most of the core Avengers are still around.

Anyway, now I think I'm tired of talking about it all right now and just need to do something else. It's too much.

 

[Merced]

I was frustrated when Starlord threw away the chance to defeat Thanos. It was in character and understandable, yeah, but I can't really see how people are mad at Doctor Strange when he compromised the entire thing.

Speaking of Doctor Strange, Benedict Cumberbatch did a fantastic job, I have to admit. I'd argue that he gave the best performance.

I wasn't a fan of the decision to put Thanos' relationship with Gamora in a sympathetic light. I'd rather the writers point to how well is plans work to gain audience respect than play the 'father doing his best' card. That being said, my favorite line from him was "I didn't teach you to lie, that's why you're so bad at it."

Thor has gone through so much, what a power move to kill Loki before the title card. I just want to see him happy.

I predict that the MCU will do a Mortal Kombat to fix this. Captain Marvel will send a message back in time warning Nick Fury, and the events of the movie get redone but all the characters are more ready.

 

[Totenkindly]

response to merced:

I was frustrated when Starlord threw away the chance to defeat Thanos. It was in character and understandable, yeah, but I can't really see how people are mad at Doctor Strange when he compromised the entire thing.

I felt the same way. Really in character for Starlord, but dammit, really frustrating too.

It was very clear that Doctor Strange was following the only path that offered the possibility of victory, even if it looked like a terrible move. That's what made it so awesome.

Speaking of Doctor Strange, Benedict Cumberbatch did a fantastic job, I have to admit. I'd argue that he gave the best performance.

He was one of the best in the film. Some folks didn't get much to do (Bucky Barnes, for example).

I wasn't a fan of the decision to put Thanos' relationship with Gamora in a sympathetic light. I'd rather the writers point to how well is plans work to gain audience respect than play the 'father doing his best' card. That being said, my favorite line from him was "I didn't teach you to lie, that's why you're so bad at it."

That was a pretty good line. It was just interesting to me, because we've only heard from Gamora and Nebula about how awful Thanos is. It doesn't mean they are wrong about him; I mean, we saw him do a lot of awful things just in this film. But it gave more view from his side of things, made him more textured. He would have killed anyone else who did what Gamora did, but he humored rebellion in her... in fact, I think her acting out against him was something he valued. It's just so freaking complicated.

From the comics, Thanos himself was kind of a defect -- he didn't look like the other Eternals and was viewed as defective. an outsider. The only bit of that we saw in the film was how when he felt he was trying to save his planet, his people laughed at him... and now they are all dead because he was right. This is kind of reflected in how he would take in these 'refuge' outcasts from their own people, or the stragglers/stranded, and raise them.

There were few times when I felt like he was hating on characters; he always seemed to come off as committed to his vision and simply that if you stood in his way, then he would remove you. It was an interesting way to cast it, and more nuanced than the comic where I remember he was trying to woo Death and seemed a bit nutty at times; it just focused on him having positive ends but questionable/awful means.

Thor has gone through so much, what a power move to kill Loki before the title card. I just want to see him happy.

Aside from screwing up at the end, he seemed to finally have himself back again. I loved that. But then... shoulda gone for the head shot.

I predict that the MCU will do a Mortal Kombat to fix this. Captain Marvel will send a message back in time warning Nick Fury, and the events of the movie get redone but all the characters are more ready.

Not sure. I have heard of them filming stuff set in past films, so it sounds like it is going BEYOND this film itself....

They finished the primary shooting in Jan, are working on assembling the film, and will do reshoots this fall.

 

[Tater]

Overall, I'd rate it 7.3. Maybe higher if I wasn't so tired while seeing it.

This movie has an ambitious vision, considering the 2.5 hr run time, the interwoven interactions between almost every Avenger's character in the MCU, and the general scope of the story. I think some scenes could have been edited out or toned down to make the pacing less slushy. But I can't really hold it against the producers, as they took on a project that involved so many moving parts. Additionally, they tried to correct for some of the MCU's more notorious bugs, like having uninteresting villains.

Concerning the villain, I agree with [MENTION=7]Totenkindly[/MENTION] that they overdid elements of Thanos' depiction. The story seemed to frequently make overt attempts to convince the audience that Thanos has feelings, understandable motivations, and shit. Despite the lack of subtlety, his portrayal works most of the time and I think Brolin did a great job selling this kind of figure who's largely misunderstood and motivated to make hard decisions to "bring balance" through happy genocide or whatever the fuck. Holy hell, though, did they give him a lot of screen time. I don't think any of the main protagonist enjoyed as much screen time as Thanos.

Speaking of the protagonists, I mostly enjoyed the chemistry between characters who had never even met before. Iron Man w/ Dr. Strange was interesting, Thor w/ the Guardians of the Galaxy was interesting, Guardians of the Galaxy w/ Iron Man was interesting. Wakandans scoffing at the clumsy Bruce Banner. I also enjoyed watching the drama unfold between Gamora and Thanos. Moreover, I loved Zoe Saldana's performance in this movie.

My favorite aspect of this movie involves the more serious turns it takes, diverging from more light-hearted releases in the MCU. It gives us a look at the toll Thor:Ragnorok took on Thor. Christ, the fireside chats between Thor and "Rabbit" made it look like Thor had PTSD. Furthermore, the backstory between Thanos and Gamora, along with Thanos' threatening presence, gives this movie a more sober tone than prior releases. They made the serious tone work without going too bonkers with the one-liners. The fact that Loki and Heimdall died during exposition set the tone effectively, too.

Negatives: plot conveniences like Bruce Banner's tendency to just pop out of a Hobbit hole or some shit whenever the story demands more nostalgic sentimentality. Plodding pace during some parts. Abrupt and somewhat perplexing ending.

But overall, it was pretty good.

Did I mention that Tyrian Llanister ascends to Hulk x2 status and helps our heroes along to forge a Skyrim axe from an interstellar orbit magma machine?

Also, your favorite MCU character probably died and evaporated into space mulch.

Anyway, if you're reading this I hope you had a good time seeing this movie.

 

[xXxXx_wEltschmErz_xXxXx]

I liked the film. Thor was cool, and Thanos a weirdo.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Can I complain about the movie even though I haven't seen it, since that's apparently a thing people do now?

Ok, do first thing. This movie is called infinity war, but it in fact has a finite runtime. This is the worst case of false advertising since The Neverending Story.

Ok, so the Guardians of the Galaxy are apparently in this. I guess Marvel feels that the Avengers themselves aren't a big enough draw to sustain an entire movie.

Iron Man's suit is stupid. Why doesn't he just fly a plane that shoots missiles and whatever gadgets he invents instead of exposing himself to danger?

If the Hulk really cared about trying to protect people from his hulk rage, he would have moved to another planet or something.

So apparently this movie has the Norse god Thor in it. So now we're mixing in magic sky man with our superhero movies? What a mishmash of concepts.

Why does a character called Spider-man only have four limbs? Talk about failing basic biology.

 

[Totenkindly]

Can I complain about the movie even though I haven't seen it, since that's apparently a thing people do now?

Ok, do first thing. This movie is called infinity war, but it in fact has a finite runtime. This is the worst case of false advertising since The Neverending Story.

Dammit. he's right. We've been robbed!!!!

If the Hulk really cared about trying to protect people from his hulk rage, he would have moved to another planet or something.

he actually did but gets sent back against his will.

Why does a character called Spider-man only have four limbs? Talk about failing basic biology.

Heh -- see the film.

 

[Gone]

It motivated me to watch Doctor Strange.


Other random thoughts:

I LOVED Thor's interactions with the Guardians.

Vision/Scarlet Witch was sweet. Although Wanda's german synchro voice is highly irritating. Should have watched the original version.

I didn't recognize Black Widow until someone called her by her name...

Captain America with a beard...

And... Why why why why why did nobody physically restrain Starlord? Everyone was pleading for him to not do something stupid. I get that both Iron Man and Spiderman were busy at the time but Nebula was standing around doing NOTHING. Except making it worse by not stopping to talk... also it would have cost Tony one second to hit him with a stunning blast or something (I can't remember what his suit can actually do and what not but I bet he could do that). Welp. I guess that wouldn't have made for an epic story then.

 

[Totenkindly]

Spoiler thread about whether certain side characters did or did not die:

"Avengers: Infinity War" Directors Reveal Who Died And Survived Off Screen

(They only answered some of the queries, others they pled the fifth so to speak....)

 

[Totenkindly]

Wow. Srsly?

'Avengers: Infinity War': Reasons Why Fans Cried, According To Their Myers-Briggs Personality Type

That being said, I did think of that when things veered south.

 

[Cellmold]

Wow. Srsly?

'Avengers: Infinity War': Reasons Why Fans Cried, According To Their Myers-Briggs Personality Type

That being said, I did think of that when things veered south.

I know this piece is pure fluff and of little substance, but this would make me INTJ with leanings into INTP as both of those occurred to me almost simultaneously.

I enjoyed the movie in a broad sense, but didn't really feel much engaged by it. In fact I found it boring except for the soul stone bit. Not sure if that's my issue or that a lot of movies made now follow the same beats too often. Although this did take some risks and I'm glad of that.

Might need to see it again, I'm sometimes more engaged on repeat viewings.

 

[Lord Lavender]

Watched it a couple weeks ago it was a good film with strong elements including the dyamanic between Stark and Parker and the overall very epic feel.

 

[Gone]

Wow. Srsly?

'Avengers: Infinity War': Reasons Why Fans Cried, According To Their Myers-Briggs Personality Type

That being said, I did think of that when things veered south.

... total ISFJ over here.

 

[Totenkindly]

Thanos subreddit culling is not the typical online fan movement

 

[Totenkindly]

It's funny having not revisited my initial reaction around the time this film came out and seeing I was lukewarm about the pacing. Over the last 3 years or so, this has become one of my favorite MCU films.

It is just honest and relentless, it captures the personality flavors of all the characters (a hard task to juggle), and it makes you think it's about the heroes on first watch but is really about the (anti) hero journey and ends successfully under that light. It also makes me feel a LOT.

I think also you can judge the success of some later efforts by how they made prior films better, and Wandavision this year was one of those efforts that overall boosted the value of Age of Ultron, a bit of Civil War, AND Infinity War as well. Out of all the poignant moments across the MCU, the whole Wanda/Vision romance (esp as shown in this film) is one of the most intense in terms of feelings of loss and love, pain and hope. This film is SO ballsy -- it culminates in a totally glorious moment, then a minute later tears it away from you and tramples it underfoot. The emotional agony is unrivaled at seeing what happens here.

It is also one of the few Marvel film that ever felt like it had dire stakes. There's a feeling of dread permeating it from the onset. The enemy is shown to be deadly, unsympathetic (well at least Thanos' lackeys), and extremely good at what they do. The fact that Thanos is not necessarily mean-spirited (like some earlier portrayals) but seems to have been purified by his unfulfilled longings and reached a sense of internal equilibrium over his own calling... where he's finally doing things himself versus trying to reap reward without doing the work... it gives him this sense of world-weariness and eventual transcendence. He's unreachable because he's already decided what needs to be done after having considered his options (so he cannot have his view altered by new information), he believes his plan is already compassionate in alleviating suffering (so no sympathy plea will sway him), and he's firmly committed to doing whatever is necessary and bearing any pain or loss necessary in order to make this sacrifice for the greater good of the universe.

I think that's almost what makes it worse (and definitely compelling) -- not that he's evil, but that he believes he is doing good. The Endgame version of Thanos is not nearly as interesting, but this slightly older Thanos, who doesn't even wear armor, is so compelling. He feels like he's almost transcended mortal bonds.

I still remember the ending of the film as one of the most wild cinematic experiences I have ever had. My breath caught in my throat, and I was just like, "holy crap, they DID it. They actually WENT this way." You could feel the audience just get the wind sucked out of them. It was so awesome. No one could believe it. It didn't matter that we knew the final film would course-correct / alleviate some or most of the loss. It mattered that they still did it -- and then let a year pass before releasing the final film. It was crazy, wild, and so amazing.

Disney+ has been good about posting deleted or alternate scenes for their films, and it is interesting to see how in this and some of the other films they would rework a scene multiple times even when filming, to make things better. Most notable is the scene in this film with Gamora and Thanos, when he first departs with her. In their earlier version, it read more like a Hallmark / progressive "woman escapes" story, but also felt very generic. They reeled this in a bit and it became more distinct. Thanos never loses his cool. He never stoops to Gamora's level with the griping. THey don't debate social justice or family abuse. He stays above it all because that's how his character would be, and reminds her that there are things he gave her, but one thing he never taught her to do was lie "and that's why she is exceedingly bad at it." yes, it would all be from his perspective. I think it's those touches that make me appreciate the film. There really is some decent quality acting and story honing despite it being a "comic book film."