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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default The Incredibles 2

    I've been avoiding the trailers until about this point, because I've been too let down in the past. (Pretty much when Brad Bird went live action with Mission Impossible 4, I didn't like his movies that much.)

    Anyway, I finally broke down and watched this compilation of the teasers/trailers (ignore the title/image, it's dumb) -- the middle sequence looks to be a real trailer, and it's actually capturing the spirit of the first movie pretty well. Not that trailer can't and don't lie (because they certainly do... How many movies have better trailers than the movies themselves?) but I'm cautiously optimistic...



    The first Incredibles was actually pretty formative for me, since it came out at an important part of my life and resonated with me. I ended up seeing it six times in theater, and I typically only ever go once to see a film. I just rewatched it after some years with some of my kids over Easter and it STILL hits me at multiple moments. It would be great if the sequel could at least be in the same ballpark in terms of meaning and quality....
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"
    "You can't take a picture of this, it's already gone." ~ "Six Feet Under"
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    I still haven't seen the first one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post

    The first Incredibles was actually pretty formative for me, since it came out at an important part of my life and resonated with me. I ended up seeing it six times in theater, and I typically only ever go once to see a film. I just rewatched it after some years with some of my kids over Easter and it STILL hits me at multiple moments. It would be great if the sequel could at least be in the same ballpark in terms of meaning and quality....
    How so?

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    Talk to me. Merced's Avatar
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    My only worry is that it is the same movie but with the roles reversed (And no, I don't mean that in the "Fucking feminists ruining my children's media" way that has been very popular in trailer analysis videos). Granted it's been a very long time since the actual release of the first movie, I hope writers still maintain the idea that this second movie starts immediately after the first. No retreads or grand re-reveals needed, we know the family, we get the concept, let's do something new with it.

    I'd hate for it to just be a movie full of callbacks. Finding Dory was essentially just that and if not for the pretty visuals I'd argue it was a worse movie than Cars 2. Pixar has been pretty disappointing and blatantly cash grabby, so I'm hesitant, but to my knowledge, this movie was deep into production a long while ago and then got canned, so this sequel wasn't a last minute decision, but a decision made long ago and only just now given room to flourish.
    I am currently looking for someone to give me an in depth typing. Willing to pay money.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Fiend View Post
    How so?
    at risk of being too wordy (but since you asked, and I'm trying to articulate it):

    - it's superheroes and I've had a lifelong love of the genre, although it has waned at times. mostly I like it when superhero stuff mixes with true real-life stuff, which The Incredibles does do.

    - It's done in a digital style that is strongly reminiscent of Rankin-Bass stop motion animated specials (Rudolph, Santa Claus is Coming to Town, The Year Without a Santa Claus, etc.). I mean, I LOVE the art design for those shows.

    - The sense of humor is totally my sense of humor. The story, once it gets going, makes sense. Each of the characters is sympathetic in their own way, and they respond to each other appropriately and consistently.

    - The soundtrack is just great, on its own and stylistically, and the music buttresses the plot / dramatic element so well.

    - There are heady ideas in the film that are not resolved but simply put out there for thinking about. Superheroes are supposed to help people but are also naturally elitist in nature. How do you manage to be more than the average person in ability, while also seeing everyone as equal in terms of value? Syndrome, the villain, wants to "normalize" everyone so that no one sticks out (and that democratizing of a populace sounds good in some respects); at the same time, Bob has a point about the celebration of mediocrity, and where does equalization end? These are issues the USA is STILL arguing about.

    - It's similar to Black Panther in that the villain actually has a valid bone to pick with the hero, where the hero's ways were either ineffective and/or the hero even has conveniently ignored their own failings, which leaves the villain to try to fix things in their own way.

    - I was in my mid-30's at the time, my kids were about the same age as the kids in the film, I hated my career (basically I was working tech on a product I didn't like when I wanted to be something more human or art centered, but couldn't because of the money), I was morbidly depressed all the time, it was probably the darkest two years of my life; and my marriage was also crumbling. I kept trying to do what was right and stay true to my promises and the people depending on me, but I was also dying in many important ways with no respite in sight and didn't think I'd be around much longer, it was that bad...

    Needless to say, I totally understood Bob Parr's depression and frustration in working a job he hated, in a system he hated, with no apparent end in sight, then running to his own space because he just cannot handle being around people. He wants to be there for his family but it's too much and he just has nothing left. How can he not pursue this option to recapture some of who he once was? It's like being given a quick drink of life.

    I also understood Helen's perspective, because no matter how you feel, your kids still need you, and one of your roles as a parent is to stabilize their world so THEY can explore and grow. Meanwhile you are mediating between your kids, your spouse, whatever else comes up in the day, to keep it all in balance and everyone's needs provided for, which setting your own needs aside and maybe even losing track of them -- it's a lonely place to be with no short-term reward, and often everyone you are trying to help seems to be fighting against you. You can't do it all on your own. Helen so often feels like the glue that holds everything together and Bob isn't able to engage.

    Both Bob and Helen have these catharsis moments in the film, where they both realize they are losing the things they've invested in and cannot keep their world stable, predictable, or safe any more -- things have to CHANGE. But change feels like death, and you don't know what's going to happen. (That's actually an important sardonic line in the movie -- "Hey, we're just superheroes; what could happen?") Basically life involves risk and change, and somehow you have to embrace it and ride it out or you end up in this state of "living death" and "static existence" so to speak. But how do you live fully and balance all your responsibilities? How do you keep your kids safe and nurture them, while somehow taking care of yourself? It's damned complicated and feels risky.

    There's a sense in the movie of how we can also become absorbed in the roles we play while forgetting (or even denying) core parts of ourselves. I really love Edna's line where she accosts Helen to "show [your husband] that he is Mr. Incredible AND you will REMIND him of who YOU are! Now, go!" Everyone has needs; everyone needs to remember who they themselves are; stop cutting yourself off from core elements of your being, if you want to fully be alive.

    There's also 5-6 scenes that automatically make me tear up in the film no matter how many times I see it -- it's all about concepts + execution, the film crew really just nails it all.


    tl;dr, basically it intersected perfectly with a similar crisis I was having in my own life in that time period, so the film really spoke to me, it's done very well, and I really identified with the characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merced View Post
    My only worry is that it is the same movie but with the roles reversed (And no, I don't mean that in the "Fucking feminists ruining my children's media" way that has been very popular in trailer analysis videos). Granted it's been a very long time since the actual release of the first movie, I hope writers still maintain the idea that this second movie starts immediately after the first. No retreads or grand re-reveals needed, we know the family, we get the concept, let's do something new with it.
    Yup, very much. I don't want them just to "flip the movie around" either.

    From the second trailer, it looks pretty close to the ending of the first film.

    I'd hate for it to just be a movie full of callbacks. Finding Dory was essentially just that and if not for the pretty visuals I'd argue it was a worse movie than Cars 2. Pixar has been pretty disappointing and blatantly cash grabby, so I'm hesitant, but to my knowledge, this movie was deep into production a long while ago and then got canned, so this sequel wasn't a last minute decision, but a decision made long ago and only just now given room to flourish.
    Dory started kind of poorly but started to get more of its own life at the midpoint of the film. At least it had some kind of impactful ending. Would the film have ever been made if Finding Nemo hadn't existed? I'm not sure it would have.

    I think for a long time Pixar was the high bar, then at midpoint of its existence it dropped a bit (while the Disney branch finally started to play a better game). They've had a minimal amount of "ehhh" pictures at least, but they aren't as much of a sure bet as their earlier stuff felt at the time. I have mixed feelings about Disney, because yes they are partly a marketing giant, not just a creative house.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"
    "You can't take a picture of this, it's already gone." ~ "Six Feet Under"
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    Wow, this sounds like a movie that came out at the right time for you in the correct moment of your life. That kind of serendipity doesn't really happen all that often and while I can think of things that I spoke to me on similar terms, they usually came to me at points later then I needed them or when I knew something was coming down the road but not for some time yet. That's really nice to have something so tied to your life.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    @Merced, I read a small blurb about the film and it looks like it picks up with the Underminer incident at the end of the first film.

    They did have to hire a new Dash voice because the original voicer is far past puberty now, but the match sounds really close.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"
    "You can't take a picture of this, it's already gone." ~ "Six Feet Under"

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    Im ridiculously excited for this.

    I loved the incredibles and its been FOURTEEN YEARS.

    I want something. Anything. And Ill take a sequel even if it might not be the greatest thing ever possibly
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    Incredibles 2 Early Reactions: A Pixar Sequel Worth the 14-Year Wait << Rotten Tomatoes – Movie and TV News

    no detail, just snippets of vague social media comments by those who have screened it
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"
    "You can't take a picture of this, it's already gone." ~ "Six Feet Under"

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    The forum was down after I wrote up my thoughts on this film, but I'm pasting it in now.... Spoilery only from an overview perspective...



    I'll just cut to the chase with the pro's and con's. As a followup up film, too, Incredibles 2 is playing two parts -- a film in itself and a sequel. The thing is, I don't consider the film's quality to change much regardless of which way one is viewing it. it's a decent and enjoyable film, albeit not quite on the level of the original.

    Positives
    - More family banter -- parent to child, brother to sister, parent to parent -- that "rings true" with the daily experience of families regardless of powers. It also at times tries to discuss the impact of superheroes in culture "seriously," which is very welcome. Does reliance on heroes mean less reliance on ourselves? Does it overall help or undermine society? Is there something about heroes that is symbolically positive despite sometimes being tangibly negative (like with property destruction)? Does the existence of heroes automatically create villains to oppose them? Despite heroes also being people, why shouldn't we regulate them due to their destructive capabilities like we would a car or controlled substance or guns? (Well... I'll avoid touching THAT last one further here...) And what role does media play in all this?
    - Some really great set pieces of Elastigirl, and a flashy new (albeit less durable) costume. Helen's quite capable on her own; it's really cool to watch her come to life once she allows herself to step beyond the dutiful roles she's kept herself within for the sake of her family. (Bob also shows his heart for his kids by figuring out how to be Dad aside from powers.)
    - The development of Jack-Jack -- well, at least his powerset as he's still a baby without a fixed personality. He has quite the array of powers and they're portrayed interestingly, along with his own personal "slugfest" in middle of film.
    - Some great animation work, mainly with Jack-Jack, an impressive strobing display in middle of film (although it should also have a warning on it, in case someone has a medical condition), and dealing with a multiplicity of heroes.
    - Said multiplicity of heroes, and especially Void in the final sequence -- her powers are applied in myriad creative fashion.
    - More Frozone. He, like Helen, gets to shine in this film. His mid-film sequence with the kids really builds him as a character as well, a seasoned hero AND adult in the room.
    - Edna Mode's reaction to / relationship with Jack-Jack is spot-on in its dual nature.
    - The music in general, although the theme songs at the end of the credits are easily the best -- love it!

    Negatives
    - Dash is put mostly on backburner in this film (although the replacement voice actor is fine).
    - Similar to the complaints about The Force Awakens, there are too many beats that resemble beats from the first movie (including the prologue, which just really should have gone elsewhere). Not horrible, but the film seems to shine when it gets away from things we've seen before and finds its own voice.
    - A rather lackluster final battle that really didn't feel threatening / deadly in the way that of the first movie did. It's kind of the nature of the villain, I suppose, but... it was underwhelming overall.
    - Most of the other superheroes are rather faceless (aside from their power), we never really get to grasp them.
    - Like with the film, the end credits feel too much like the original film's both visually and musically rather than being unique... although Giacchino in spots does veer into some new styles which is greatly welcome.

    --

    The opening short also scans similarly. The animation is great and a bit different than what we have seen before, but the content is all what you'd pretty much expect from a Pixar short thematically and is more affirming than groundbreaking.

    Hindsight on the villain:
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"
    "You can't take a picture of this, it's already gone." ~ "Six Feet Under"

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    These are easily some of the most inspired parts of the sequel.









    Also thought this was cool (by the same group D Capella)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"
    "You can't take a picture of this, it's already gone." ~ "Six Feet Under"

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