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Thread: Black Panther

  1. #1
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    Mod Edit: This thread has been pruned of all comments not directly related to the content of the subject movie, and moved out of the Graveyard. As it is now in Arts/Entertainment, on-topic comments will address the movie itself, its aesthetic qualities, technical aspects, marketing, role as social commentary, etc. If your post in the original thread was left in the Graveyard, feel free to repost whatever portion of those ideas falls within the topic as defined here.


    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post


    I know that you can tell the difference between a small subset of people from a country that is created by immigrants on the back of a nation that was invaded, and took part of a slow genocide of it's natives, and then exploited human beings from other countries to further prop up the prosperity of that aforementioned nation only to (after using those human beings for several generations and prospering from all of the exploitation their ancestors took part in) hypocritically decide that all the things they have a indirect hand in enabling (By once again, coming from immigrants) , or that actually brought them to the dance on the global stage (diversity, democracy, and open trade), while espousing tradition. (which is using other nations people to further their own quality of life and wealth).

    And a fictional country made in comics that has never gone outside of it's borders to begin with, exploited nothing but it's own resources, at a price to no one, and spoilers for the movie, if you read the comics you'd know this already:


    Also Wakanda doesn't have a wall.

    I will bring up an actual issue however, that is based on reality and not the wild musings of some troll who doesn't want someone to have nice things because it makes him feel bad.

    There has been a lot of older sci fi fans who were groomed on the works of Tolkien and Roddenbery, who suddenly believe that fictional worlds don't matter and that they represent nothing in the real world, say nothing about it and as such can be discarded. For over 80 years the world of middle earth has allowed us entry to it via the page and the screen at the cinema, there we were able to see dozens of races that don't exist in our world interact with each with the only complaints being how long it would take before we could see them again. We're allowed to go to Westeros and watch political intrigue and battle after battle occur as we connect to and lose people we come to care about on an unreasonably personal level. We were able to chart the Alpha, Beta and delta quadrants with Kirk, Picard and Janeway, and hold Deep Space Nine with Sisko from the Dominion and of the complaints not one of them were "this couldn't exist."

    And suddenly we have a film that is also science fiction and the biggest complaint isn't coming from people who've seen the movie, isn't about the quality of the CG in the scene when Killmonger and Panther are fighting the Vibranium caves, but that Wakanda, a nation created in science fiction comic books in the 1960s, can't exist and suddenly the film isn't worth watching because of that. That's a discussion I feel is one worth having.

    It seems that suddenly you can only deal with the topic of race, if the race doesn't exist. Like with Bright, or District 9, or Avatar, however as soon as you have the races that have inspired those stories it suddenly becomes, counter intuitively so invalid.
    Last edited by Coriolis; 02-25-2018 at 11:24 PM. Reason: Post edited to be OP of pruned thread.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Fiend View Post
    I know that you can tell the difference between a small subset of people from a country that is created by immigrants on the back of a nation that was invaded, and took part of a slow genocide of it's natives, and then exploited human beings from other countries to further prop up the prosperity of that aforementioned nation only to (after using those human beings for several generations and prospering from all of the exploitation their ancestors took part in) hypocritically decide that all the things they have a indirect hand in enabling (By once again, coming from immigrants) , or that actually brought them to the dance on the global stage (diversity, democracy, and open trade), while espousing tradition. (which is using other nations people to further their own quality of life and wealth).

    And a fictional country made in comics that has never gone outside of it's borders to begin with, exploited nothing but it's own resources, at a price to no one, and spoilers for the movie, if you read the comics you'd know this already:


    Also Wakanda doesn't have a wall.

    I will bring up an actual issue however, that is based on reality and not the wild musings of some troll who doesn't want someone to have nice things because it makes him feel bad.

    There has been a lot of older sci fi fans who were groomed on the works of Tolkien and Roddenbery, who suddenly believe that fictional worlds don't matter and that they represent nothing in the real world, say nothing about it and as such can be discarded. For over 80 years the world of middle earth has allowed us entry to it via the page and the screen at the cinema, there we were able to see dozens of races that don't exist in our world interact with each with the only complaints being how long it would take before we could see them again. We're allowed to go to Westeros and watch political intrigue and battle after battle occur as we connect to and lose people we come to care about on an unreasonably personal level. We were able to chart the Alpha, Beta and delta quadrants with Kirk, Picard and Janeway, and hold Deep Space Nine with Sisko from the Dominion and of the complaints not one of them were "this couldn't exist."

    And suddenly we have a film that is also science fiction and the biggest complaint isn't coming from people who've seen the movie, isn't about the quality of the CG in the scene when Killmonger and Panther are fighting the Vibranium caves, but that Wakanda, a nation created in science fiction comic books in the 1960s, can't exist and suddenly the film isn't worth watching because of that. That's a discussion I feel is one worth having.

    It seems that suddenly you can only deal with the topic of race, if the race doesn't exist. Like with Bright, or District 9, or Avatar, however as soon as you have the races that have inspired those stories it suddenly becomes, counter intuitively so invalid.
    I agree, fyi. I can't like the post and ...uh leaving a comment seems too intimate.

    The discussion, however, on this forum is probably going to ... just go downhill really quickly in terms of quality, so it's not something I'd love to engage in on this forum. But the last few paragraphs are spot on and I suspect would make very good thesis papers if you are an academic; if not, it is still a worthy way to analyse the way people are talking abt these things, which is just. Ugh

    Anyway

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  3. #3
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    I was wondering why it wouldn't let me like his post.

    The movie was awesome. Typical of the Marvel movies. Not really any better than the others, but with a different political tone and message. Timely and necessary.

    My favorite part of the movie were all the little boys dressed up as Black Panther at the premiere.
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    I haven't scene Black Panther yet, but I'm really tired of the constant butthurt about women and minorities gaining more representation in popular culture. I think it's really pathetic that so many people find this kind of thing threatening. I almost feel bad for these people; they must live incredibly fearful lives to have this sort of thing trigger them.
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    Hollywood tried to gay up Black Panther, it didn't work out - this time:
    Homosexual Romance Storyline Cut From Black Panther

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    I liked atomic's post, because I more or less agree with him.

    As I specified when I shared that amusing meme, I don't read comic books or watch comic films. I just found the apparent superficial similarities it pointed out amusing, and how we have a way of evaluating such criteria differently. It wasn't intended to mean "nah, this sort of society (Wakanda) couldn't or shouldn't exist cuz my feelings" but rather that alt right type trolls boycotting and downvoting the movie have a paper thin ideology and that they and their far left counterparts are often shockingly similar in some of the things they idealize. But I didn't watch the film, so I'm shutting up now.

    I'm not really going to say any more because I don't feel like getting roasted by both sides of the circus.

    Sorry I ruffled so many feathers there. I fucking suck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julius_Van_Der_Beak View Post
    I haven't scene Black Panther yet, but I'm really tired of the constant butthurt about women and minorities gaining more representation in popular culture. I think it's really pathetic that so many people find this kind of thing threatening. I almost feel bad for these people; they must live incredibly fearful lives to have this sort of thing trigger them.
    No I'm not feeling bad for these snowflaky twats. I'm sick of their conservative culture and right wing lifestyle being shoved shoved down my throat, the entitlement is mindblowing. Have a problem with a movie or <inset inanimate thing triggering the right>? Don't go see it. The End. Their entire being is governed by fear, that's why they embrace authoritarianism. Otherwise how could they leave the house? It's so scary out there.
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    Here is a critic's valuable review of Black Panther:
    "18 February 2018 | by Kekeletso Xathi – See all my reviews
    Black Panther has got people throbbing, some saying it gave rise to Africa in the MCU. Critic's seem to all love it... reviews have been rave, even before the movie actually opened in Theaters.

    I found it funny, touching, strong as well as weak at some points... I do have to say that it has been over-hyped. It's not as good as Age of Ultron, and many of MCU releases. It didn't have a true villain we grew hatred for, Killmonger was just some angry kid to be honest.

    The women, do pick it up though, I'd hang a few but all of them did this movie good. Their roles infused well with the plot, and none of them disappointed me.

    To be honest with everyone else, I'd pretty much say that (as a black person) we loved Black Panther for it's cast and setting... Culturally - Black Panther is one of the greatest film's ever made, but Critically - It doesn't really deserve the universal acclaim. 7/10"

    When critics rave over a movie before they have even seen it, you know the numbers are going to be inflated.

    Black Panther won't have any cultural impact.

    When the noise finally dies down, people will generally see it for what it is - just another action flick with so-so digital effects.

    The whole "we wuz kangz" thing will be seen as insulting by some blacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Have a problem with a movie or <inset inanimate thing triggering the right>? Don't go see it. The End.
    I agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Here is a critic's valuable review of Black Panther:
    "18 February 2018 | by Kekeletso Xathi – See all my reviews
    Black Panther has got people throbbing, some saying it gave rise to Africa in the MCU. Critic's seem to all love it... reviews have been rave, even before the movie actually opened in Theaters.

    I found it funny, touching, strong as well as weak at some points... I do have to say that it has been over-hyped. It's not as good as Age of Ultron, and many of MCU releases. It didn't have a true villain we grew hatred for, Killmonger was just some angry kid to be honest.

    The women, do pick it up though, I'd hang a few but all of them did this movie good. Their roles infused well with the plot, and none of them disappointed me.

    To be honest with everyone else, I'd pretty much say that (as a black person) we loved Black Panther for it's cast and setting... Culturally - Black Panther is one of the greatest film's ever made, but Critically - It doesn't really deserve the universal acclaim. 7/10"

    When critics rave over a movie before they have even seen it, you know the numbers are going to be inflated.

    Black Panther won't have any cultural impact.

    When the noise finally dies down, people will generally see it for what it is - just another action flick with so-so digital effects.

    The whole "we wuz kangz" thing will be seen as insulting by some blacks.
    I'll see it eventually. Like I said, not a huge comic book fan so I'm in no big hurry. I still haven't seen most of the Marvel or DC Universe films.

    I enjoyed Wonder Woman but I didn't really get the praise it received as some major, groundbreaking feminist movie. It was just a really well-made, fun popcorn film, and yes there were some nice undertones of social commentary, but I didn't feel like I was being hit over the face with it as though it was lazily done like certain recent films *coughGhostbusterscough*. The best part about it was she wasn't portrayed as perfect, she was portrayed as a little more complex and prone to failure and learning from mistakes, which meant there was actually a character arc. I hope the same is true about Black Panther, but I'll wait until I've seen it.

    The reason "we was kangz" is seen as insulting, is because it is a meme that has been used by some far right nationalists to mock African history.
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