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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    What was he talking about with the whole 'you're going to need allies' thing regarding the Hollywood accusations though?
    What don't you understand?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    What don't you understand?
    I just remember him saying something about a backlash against the accusers and that they're going to need male allies and that maybe going after every guy who sexually harassed women in the past was not a good idea. Guess I kind of answered my own question.

  3. #23

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    I can't even.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    I just remember him saying something about a backlash against the accusers and that they're going to need male allies and that maybe going after every guy who sexually harassed women in the past was not a good idea. Guess I kind of answered my own question.
    .
    Your mischaracterization of what he says is exactly why we need space in society to be wrong.
    Because the fact of the matter is his perspective has value and if we just brush off what he says because it "sounds" mean and offensive we're going to miss the wisdom of a guy that has experienced a lot and reflected on that experience.

    What he says is far more nuanced than what you remember.
    He says that what Hollywood needs is truth and reconciliation like they had in South Africa.
    If you read between the lines he's saying that every guy in Hollywood is guilty on some level. At the same time all of these guys are also victims of the system. If you want to upend the system men have to be able to confess the shit they did and there has to be reconciliation. If you just keep up the attack with no possibility for reconciliation then eventually things will quiet down. And that's when the backlash will come.

    Remember this is a black guy who was in Hollywood and left.
    He understands backlash on multiple levels. He saw that Hollywood was shit and got out when he could.

    Cearly his viewpoint is worth considering.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    . Your mischaracterization of what he says is exactly why we need space in society to be wrong. Because the fact of the matter is his perspective has value and if we just brush off what he says because it "sounds" mean and offensive we're going to miss the wisdom of a guy that has experienced a lot and reflected on that experience. What he says is far more nuanced than what you remember. He says that what Hollywood needs is truth and reconciliation like they had in South Africa. If you read between the lines he's saying that every guy in Hollywood is guilty on some level. At the same time all of these guys are also victims of the system. If you want to upend the system men have to be able to confess the shit they did and there has to be reconciliation. If you just keep up the attack with no possibility for reconciliation then eventually things will quiet down. And that's when the backlash will come. Remember this is a black guy who was in Hollywood and left. He understands backlash on multiple levels. He saw that Hollywood was shit and got out when he could. Cearly his viewpoint is worth considering.
    I missed the nuance there. I was confused so I didn't really know how to characterize it, but I agree with that point. I didn't connect the South African isomorphism. For some reason I was mixing the 'brittle spirit' bit instead.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    .
    Your mischaracterization of what he says is exactly why we need space in society to be wrong.
    Because the fact of the matter is his perspective has value and if we just brush off what he says because it "sounds" mean and offensive we're going to miss the wisdom of a guy that has experienced a lot and reflected on that experience.

    What he says is far more nuanced than what you remember.
    He says that what Hollywood needs is truth and reconciliation like they had in South Africa.
    If you read between the lines he's saying that every guy in Hollywood is guilty on some level. At the same time all of these guys are also victims of the system. If you want to upend the system men have to be able to confess the shit they did and there has to be reconciliation. If you just keep up the attack with no possibility for reconciliation then eventually things will quiet down. And that's when the backlash will come.

    Remember this is a black guy who was in Hollywood and left.
    He understands backlash on multiple levels. He saw that Hollywood was shit and got out when he could.

    Cearly his viewpoint is worth considering.
    He reminds me of Joel Hodgson in some regards. Hodgson may have left Hollywood for different reasons, but similar circumstances. He was poised to be a big star in the 80s, was regularly appearing on shows like Letterman, had offers for sitcoms from major networks, then just decided to pack it up and return to the Midwest, but then he was able to create his own miniature media empire of sorts by creating MST3k. Glad Chapelle has also found a way to channel his talents without making himself a cog in the Hollywood machine.

    I realize I often sound anti-Hollywood. I'm not completely against it, but I think despite the predominance of liberal thinking, there is an insularity and general 'out-of-touchness' and I hope more performers and entertainers are able to make their way and find success without going through that morally and creatively bankrupt system that chews up men and women every year.

    I think the whole MeToo movement may have gotten out of hand in some aspects, but overall it is not a bad thing if it shines a light on the sort of shit that happens and leads more people to avoid it or find their own niche.

  7. #27
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    The stuff in the each of the shows I watched was interesting and good, I liked the comment he made about there being no "lasting peace" with these guys, ie perps, that they were scared now but when they come back, if the efforts against them werent sustained then what would come next would make what's happening at the moment look like childs play, I certainly agreed with that, I thought it was interesting what he said about South Africa, how that probably should have ended in a massacre for the whites but it didnt.

    Also, what he said about going through Brooklyn with 25,000 terrified because he thought he "had something everyone wants" and comparing it to having "a pussy" and saying that was women's experience all the time, I think that was a good point, also made in a crass, crude fashion that probably would finally make it dawn upon people not likely to seriously "hear" just what the grievances of women actually are.

    I remember a friend telling me about someone talking about how they'd have liked to put up an FHM poster objectifying women in a social space in a shared house in which there was on female, my friend, and three male residents, the guy in question decided it wasnt a good idea finally because they thought about what it would have been like to resident as the only male heterosexual in a household of four homosexual men, which was sort of a bit shit, replacing one prejudice with another maybe but I could see how the lousy analogies were working, sort of, to result in a bit of consideration for others.

    Though the stuff he said about if this is what we know about there is probably something even worse people are not willing to admit to, I wondered about that because that shit it totally and utterly true, all of the recent revelations about hollywood and stuff would all appear to have panned out without anyone seriously shrinking away from public life in shame and anxiety and personal crisis, its all been very easy for people to admit and apologise for.

    That book Pimp and the stories in it, I've never been sure if they are or arent all true, its got a lot of cruelty and depravity in it anyway, I was surprised to see it referenced in a comedy act, I read some of it a long time ago and remember thinking if there was anything worse than capitalism it was capitalism in the hood or poor man's capitalism, the totally babaric variety, what worries me is that that sort of capitalism is being popularised, is being made normative, but I also wondered if he was suggesting in his act that all the talk about an alternative, treating each other right, supporting people who stand up for others without any need to at all, who suffer for doing so, whether they are rich themselves or not is a ruse, I wondered if he was suggesting it was a ruse to exploit people a little longer still, that the whole campaigning against sex abuse in hollywood was a ruse too, get the ladies to behave well as performers one way or another.

    A hell of a lot of this is all well trodden terrain in some political quarters, the most sobering, disillusioned sections of the socialist movement, who are still socialists in some shape, even if its just their personal values, they've known so many damn ruses that often its hard to know when there will be something other than a ruse.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    He's a misogynistic dudebro.
    It’s true.

    He also believes that the illuminati are real abd behind the death of every famous black person. That’s too much man.

    He does have some really funny material though.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survive & Stay Free View Post
    The stuff in the each of the shows I watched was interesting and good, I liked the comment he made about there being no "lasting peace" with these guys, ie perps, that they were scared now but when they come back, if the efforts against them werent sustained then what would come next would make what's happening at the moment look like childs play, I certainly agreed with that, I thought it was interesting what he said about South Africa, how that probably should have ended in a massacre for the whites but it didnt.

    Also, what he said about going through Brooklyn with 25,000 terrified because he thought he "had something everyone wants" and comparing it to having "a pussy" and saying that was women's experience all the time, I think that was a good point, also made in a crass, crude fashion that probably would finally make it dawn upon people not likely to seriously "hear" just what the grievances of women actually are.

    I remember a friend telling me about someone talking about how they'd have liked to put up an FHM poster objectifying women in a social space in a shared house in which there was on female, my friend, and three male residents, the guy in question decided it wasnt a good idea finally because they thought about what it would have been like to resident as the only male heterosexual in a household of four homosexual men, which was sort of a bit shit, replacing one prejudice with another maybe but I could see how the lousy analogies were working, sort of, to result in a bit of consideration for others.

    Though the stuff he said about if this is what we know about there is probably something even worse people are not willing to admit to, I wondered about that because that shit it totally and utterly true, all of the recent revelations about hollywood and stuff would all appear to have panned out without anyone seriously shrinking away from public life in shame and anxiety and personal crisis, its all been very easy for people to admit and apologise for.

    That book Pimp and the stories in it, I've never been sure if they are or arent all true, its got a lot of cruelty and depravity in it anyway, I was surprised to see it referenced in a comedy act, I read some of it a long time ago and remember thinking if there was anything worse than capitalism it was capitalism in the hood or poor man's capitalism, the totally babaric variety, what worries me is that that sort of capitalism is being popularised, is being made normative, but I also wondered if he was suggesting in his act that all the talk about an alternative, treating each other right, supporting people who stand up for others without any need to at all, who suffer for doing so, whether they are rich themselves or not is a ruse, I wondered if he was suggesting it was a ruse to exploit people a little longer still, that the whole campaigning against sex abuse in hollywood was a ruse too, get the ladies to behave well as performers one way or another.

    A hell of a lot of this is all well trodden terrain in some political quarters, the most sobering, disillusioned sections of the socialist movement, who are still socialists in some shape, even if its just their personal values, they've known so many damn ruses that often its hard to know when there will be something other than a ruse.
    On the topic if things that make you think; “ Pimp” is considered a compliment in certain black culture. Ever stopped and thought “ What IS a pimp?” Well, it’s someone who owns people and makes money off of thier work.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    On the topic if things that make you think; “ Pimp” is considered a compliment in certain black culture. Ever stopped and thought “ What IS a pimp?” Well, it’s someone who owns people and makes money off of thier work.
    Oh, yeah, I know that, its the "smarts" and "power" of someone who is really a ball bag, its like here, short hand for being smarter or tougher than anyone else via being an unfeeling wicked bastard is to say that they could "buy and sell you", the implication is that not only are they cleverer but you are also naive, an evolution on it that I heard a few years back was the label of "innocent", so the worst you could be labelled would be "innocent".

    I think its pretty sick, it makes me angry most of the time, its the distillate of what I thinks wrong with the world.
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