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  1. #1
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default Watchmen in Development for HBO

    Watchmen Series in the Works at HBO with Damon Lindelof | Collider

    For all the bitching about Lindelof on LOST, if anyone caught the three seasons of The Leftovers (HBO) where he was showrunner and cowriter on every script, for all three seasons, well, he's matured a lot since his crazy LOST days as a storyteller and often hints at the miraculous while then actually going for the mundane. (i.e., the best explanations are not necessarily the supernatural ones). This shores up a prior weakness to his craft (where things were just getting tossed in without regard for coherence, and often inexplicable supernatural solutions were tossed into the mix).

    I have Snyder's Watchmen on bluray but was never impressed with it -- it seemed a huge mismatch between source material and director... plus trying to condense Watchmen to a movie is just kind of crazy. Considering the production quality and maturity coming to the TV series format and the ability to tell a longer story with character development (something a property like Watchmen would need), this seems to be a positive move and potentially definitive. "The Leftovers" also was based on a book for the first season, then seasons 2 and 3 were uncharted territory expanding on the story and did a pretty excellent job at creating more seasons of material not from the original source.

    It's not clear yet whether he and HBO will share a vision and get something rolling, but it would be a welcome chance to do Watchmen (or something based on it) in a more appropriate format.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    This is exciting! Though it may not necessarily be a positive outcome.

    However it does make me want to grab my copy off the shelf again.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I usually end up rereading it every so often. I hadn't liked Gibbon's style as much when I was younger, but his layout and recursive imagery (and how it reflects the text) is just pretty amazing...

    ... and then of course Alan Moore's script.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    I read it a long time ago, it was had an incredible impact, I could definitely use a re-read. I agree, it was a mistake to turn that into a movie, as I remember it, the graphic novel was very complex and had a lot of different elements in it that couldn't effectively be crammed into a theater. I wonder if they will have entire episodes in the Tales of the Black Freighter universe.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I read it a long time ago, it was had an incredible impact, I could definitely use a re-read. I agree, it was a mistake to turn that into a movie, as I remember it, the graphic novel was very complex and had a lot of different elements in it that couldn't effectively be crammed into a theater. I wonder if they will have entire episodes in the Tales of the Black Freighter universe.
    I dunno, but the beauty of a TV format is that that could be seriously considered rather than excised immediately.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Fucking Lindeloff... how is he still getting work?

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    As my friend would say "A toast to The Comedian; his actions resulted in the deaths of more Americans then Vientnamese"

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    Fucking Lindeloff... how is he still getting work?
    He did a pretty amazing job with The Leftovers, it's too bad the series never got as much press in the widespread market as it deserved.

    My impression also is that Prometheus wasn't his fault, I blame Scott and the excessive editing from what I've seen of the excised footage. Idiots.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #9
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    He did a pretty amazing job with The Leftovers, it's too bad the series never got as much press in the widespread market as it deserved. My impression also is that Prometheus wasn't his fault, I blame Scott and the excessive editing from what I've seen of the excised footage. Idiots.
    I liked everything about lost, Prometheus, and the leftovers except the ends of each, and I really don't appreciate his bastardizing of hard sci fi with soap opera one dimensional character fixations with his two favorite themes of 'belief' and 'running from/repressing issues.' He just seems like such an amateur and surface level writer to me that can't end a story in an objectively satisfying way to save his life. There are writers who imagine the entire off-screen lore of the story and pluck out bits and pieces of it to allude to the bigger picture (True Detective, Twin Peaks), and there are writers that focus on characters and just put one foot in front of the other letting them react off each other and let that drive the story forward (often in ways that surprise the writer). Lindeloff is the later, which would be fine if he wasn't constantly pretending to be the former, and duping detail oriented sci fi fan audience members like me into it.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    I liked everything about lost, Prometheus, and the leftovers except the ends of each, and I really don't appreciate his bastardizing of hard sci fi with soap opera one dimensional character fixations with his two favorite themes of 'belief' and 'running from/repressing issues.' He just seems like such an amateur and surface level writer to me that can't end a story in an objectively satisfying way to save his life. There are writers who imagine the entire off-screen lore of the story and pluck out bits and pieces of it to allude to the bigger picture (True Detective, Twin Peaks), and there are writers that focus on characters and just put one foot in front of the other letting them react off each other and let that drive the story forward (often in ways that surprise the writer). Lindeloff is the later, which would be fine if he wasn't constantly pretending to be the former, and duping detail oriented sci fi fan audience members like me into it.
    Ah, okay.... thanks for explaining in more detail.

    Personally, I find both approaches decent... but who says it's an exclusive binary anyway? Storytelling typically involves having a sense of at least some of the overall big picture while also giving the characters some reign so they can act freely. Not everyone is completely J or completely P in style. I would think that his first big outing in Lost would have clarified he was not someone who had all the details of the big picture figured out ahead of time, so I never felt suckered by anything he did later. I appreciate the fact that instead of throwing sloppy fantasy elements to cover inconsistencies in story (like in Lost especially as the series reached later seasons), he's shown some movement towards ambiguity as well as opting for the mundane and personal over the sometimes hackneyed-miraculous.

    Another reason this is relevant in Watchmen is that, despite the superhero elements, it's pretty grounded for a superhero movie (and even ends on the personal and mundane), and is extremely character-driven. Also, you could see the flaws when he was spinning wholesale on a year-by-year storyline in Lost, when they did not have the big picture figured out; but The Leftovers was a book adaptation in Season 1, the two later seasons were extrapolations, and Watchmen is essentially a book adaptation that allows for some extrapolation.

    IOW, his work on The Leftovers is relevant and suited for a Watchmen adaptation far more than Zack Snyder's strengths and weaknesses.

    I'm not saying there might be some better choices out there (although I don't currently have any names in my head), but he's certainly not a bad choice.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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