The Handmaid's Tale

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I'm on the latest episode. This is the best one yet. I don't want to give any spoilers, but I'm liking how this is unfolding.

 

[Totenkindly]

I guess I should start watching again. Is the season finale next week?

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I guess I should start watching again. Is the season finale next week?

I think there were only supposed to be 13 episodes in the second season and this was the 13th episode. The way this episode ended with a cliffhanger and that makes me think there will be a third season. But it was cool. It was a feminist ending. You'll see when you get there. You were right though. This is a really soap opera-y show and it really dragged out.

 

[misfortuneteller]

It's so mind-numbingly boring and the lead character is probably a bland 9 like how we tend to be painted in general. The inaction is strong with that one.

 

[Qlip]

It's so mind-numbingly boring and the lead character is probably a bland 9 like how we tend to be painted in general. The inaction is strong with that one.

If being hesitant to act out because doing so would lead to tortue, pain and maybe death means you're a 9 then I think most of us are 9s. I thought the story itself is refreshingly free of typical action heroes.

 

[Edgar]

I think I made it 30 minutes through episode one before the absolutely absurd premise of the show began making me throw up in my mouth a little (ok, a lot). Is this seriously how feminists see religion, and what they are afraid of happening in the future? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Are you referring to feminists of today, or the feminists of 32 years ago when this story was written?

I read the book years ago and saw the original film. While it's not a likely scenario, the current political climate is causing the series to be taken down a road I don't really want to go - some discussions and reviews and projections aren't helping. This has no bearing on it being good or not. From everything I've read it's excellent.

It's based on the Iranian revolution of 1979, they just changed the country and religion to make it "omg could something like this happen?" instead of "well yeah, that's how it is there"

 

[Totenkindly]

June's kind of a hellion, honestly, not a peacemaker type. She's the one who initiated events leading to Luke leaving his first wife and was generally disrupting Gilead when others were too frightened to offer any kind of protest. She was so freaking ACTIVE during Season 1 and the early parts of Season 2, I'm not sure I'd ever call her an inactive personality, she's just been temporarily beaten into submission and has no options for open rebellion at the moment (at least as far as I watched, through episode 8-9).

She's only been sedate/placid in the middle portion of Season 2 because she's pregnant (and wants to protect her baby) and because she realized she was getting too many people hurt/killed due to her rebellious streak. I'm not sure I buy all the placid behavior from her but it's not such a glaring thing that it distracts from the story.

 

[misfortuneteller]

If being hesitant to act out because doing so would lead to tortue, pain and maybe death means you're a 9 then I think most of us are 9s.

She got herself into that situation. I saw the first few episodes then gave up which was a good call.

 

[Totenkindly]

I will finish this up in the next few days.

I just finished Episode 10 (The Last Ceremony). I feel like this episode was a mess, kind of my unfolding gripe as Season 2 has progressed. Season 1 seemed to be more coherent and focused. This episode in particular really reinforced to me how it's really more of a collection of things the writers want to show or say, rather than being truly character driven.

One issue is that the Waterfords are all over the map -- sympathetic, villainous, kind, cruel -- depending upon the needs of the current episode.

- Fred's flip out in the study at June is one typical example. Who the hell is Fred now? I really don't know. The Season 1 Fred seems different than this less nuanced Fred... who at one moment is shouting at June, then in another scene raping her -- this is the guy who couldn't get it up to have a baby by "kindly raping her" episodes back, but nowadays I guess violently raping someone is enough to get his juices flowing? But srsly, who is he? His character is not written coherently anymore. Same with Serena. One moment kind, one moment capricious, one moment bonding with June on a womanly level, then next just being a total bitch... The Waterfords do not exist as people anymore, they are just structures in the narrative to act out certain scenes that the writers want to stress for socio-political reasons, as best as I can tell.

I got this wild idea that when the Waterfords were raping June this episode, the one immediate and effective way she could have stopped it was to wrap her legs around Fred and start calling out his name and talking dirty. I know it sounds crass, and it was a horrific scene that I know the writers wanted to parallel the earlier impregnation of Emily in the episode, but I am very sure the Waterfords would have stopped. It has become a war at this point, and they will continue to violate June regardless. And I know June is strong and capable of fighting back in whatever way makes the most sense at the time, just to flip them off.

That whole scene was just damn hard to watch. There's a point where "hard art/stories" simply becomes sickening / too much, and not worth the watch. I felt like parts of this episode veered into that territory.

I feel bad for Eden. And Nick is so obviously terrible at being a husband. Eden just really needs stressed to her that IT'S NOT HER that is the problem -- it's the system that has put her in this shit marriage with a guy who was never into her even if he has no hard feelings towards her. Her crying jag at the end was really good, as far as the acting went. But man, Nick -- just put your arm around her, tell her you think she's great, but you are just making do as much as she is, never asked to be married, etc. I dunno. She needs to not feel so alone... that is the worst -- she's alone, her world makes no sense, she has nothing to lean in. Or maybe she just NEEDS to be alone, and then either die or pull herself up and become stronger? I don't know.

Okay, and then the whole last bit with the visit to the other estate:

Fred: NO DON'T TELL ME WHAT I HAVE POWER TO DO! AND HEY I'LL RAPE YOU TO PROVE A POINT! But okay, now I'll let you see your daughter because you'll love it, despite the fact I believe I have always spoiled you! Whatever, Fred. Get some better writers.

So they changed her name to Agnes. Although it was Hannah. Which are both blatantly biblical names. Whatever.

The problem really though, as I said, is that so much feels contrived now, I can't take the show nearly as seriously. When Hannah said, "I have new parents now" while June was asking her if she remembered her, I actually started laughing out loud. Because the whole thing felt so absurd.

At least then they started to talk "for real." But then they had the guards say "WE HAVE TO GO! NOW!" and drag Hannah away... which is a little extreme, if they are immediately gonna turn around and let Hannah run back to Mommy for a good minute and calmly and without a sense of time say goodbye for real. (Great goodbye scene, but it totally
didn't fit into the "OMG WE GOTTA GO NOW!" bit.) And then suddenly everyone shows up and grabs Nick and drives off without inspecting the house to SEE WHAT HE WAS ACTUALLY DOING THERE... so that Episode 11 can be "JUNE: GIVING BIRTH ON HER OWN ALONE IN THE WOODS".

So. Contrived.

I will admit, the visual of the final scene was great. The white snow, the tall brown straight trees, and the only splash of color being the red handmaid's outfit as June stands there in the snow.

Anyway, this is my criticism of the season, I guess. There are moments I think are great, but... it's just so freaking soap at times now, without regard for establishing and developing the characters as people.

 

[Totenkindly]

I thought Episode 11 ("Holly") was pretty excellent, actually.

- Although it ended up exactly what I projected it would in my last post, the story was told realistically and had enough interesting twists and turns that I was never sure exactly where it was going. June had various options but many were stymied in reasonable ways based on circumstances.

This episode really just jettisoned a lot of the "fake" drama and was really about June figuring out what to do and how to take care of herself stuck in the wild / house without power. Elisabeth Moss is such a great actress, she can carry this load easily. I love how she never phones it in; she's totally invested in every scene, even the mundane moments.

- The Fred and Serena show was mostly as silly as typical, and both of them now dropping F bombs regularly to show that underneath it all they're just average folks and stressed out.

This line made me shake my head:
Serena: She hates you. you raped her yesterday!
[*headshake* Yeah, Serena, and YOU held her down... The waterfords are a real piece of work.]

But this line made me laugh hard in the way it was intended:
Serena: They'll hang us on the wall!
Fred: Yeah, and maybe they'll put us side by side -- just my fucking luck.

Honestly, that might be Fred's best line/delivery from the entire series so far. It's getting right up there with The Hound's line in GoT revolving around how if he hears any more words drop from someone's c--- mouth, he's going to eat every fucking chicken in the room.

Still, it's getting old, and I'm getting tired of the Waterfords.


- Finally, a TV birthing scene that is handled in a way that it seems like a real birth and actually takes as long as a real birth rather than the 5-minute delivery from broken water to baby, no muss, no fuss. And it's a big deal as well because it's a triumph for June; Serena was basically going to abscond with the birthing and June would have been surrounded by people making it all a public spectacle, but despite the pain of being alone through this ordeal, it was just her and Holly in a dark room before the fireplace -- a special private transcendent moment between Mother and daughter. In this show, this is about as "happy an ending" as you could ever expect, and you know the respite will not last long, but this was such a wonderful episode because of this. I love how it kept referencing Hannah's birth as well. It also made me think as well -- how humans who are alone and struggling with something hard make themselves NOT alone by remembering the people they love. We are such a part of each other's lives, that even our memories of each other can be lifelines. As long as we don't forget, we aren't completely alone. We bond with those we love and they stick with us even when they're not present.


- That was really ballsy for June to fire the gun. What a sacrifice... but it shows that she loved Holly and would do whatever would help her survive, as she had promised. She's lovely.

maybe we can just end the series here? On a happy note?

Based on the tone of other comments here and on FB, I'm not sure I wanna watch the last two....

 

[Totenkindly]

So my understanding now is that Season 1 seemed to really have more consistent characterization and character-driven arcs. My feeling is that Season 2 kind of jettisoned all of that -- characters are friends, enemies, sympathetic, antagonistic based on the needs of the moment -- where the whole season is really meant to trigger and/or outrage the viewing audience.

The episodes written by the showrunner tend to be the best ones of the season overall, but there seems to be no real effort to have a consistent emotional response / psychological unfolding from the various characters. They don't really have personal arcs like in Season 1. Fred is now mostly the moustache-twiddling douchebag, where in Season 1 he was more nuanced and seemed to have mixed-feelings about Gilead. Serena is bipolar in her responses to June... it seems to flip based on whether the writers want a conflict or some conciliatory measure. June seems either hell-bent or wishy-washy as hell, depending on the needs of the moment. It really became a slog for me to watch, I ended up stopping some episodes every ten minutes to surf the net because I was bored.

As far as particular plot twists:

I might have had more sympathy for Eden if I actually saw her love interest unfold. No, suddenly she's in love; and then she's running off; and then she's being drowned as punishment after her freakin' dad turned her in. Like, SHOW ME WHY SHE FELL IN LOVE WITH THIS GUY AND WHAT IS WORTH DYING FOR. No, her death was really just a plot trigger to motivate other characters. Which is too bad, because she had an earnestness about her that was attractive as a person.

There was a lot in the finale I actually would laugh at -- stuff that was horrible, but it was so over the top, unexpected, EXPECTED, and/or dumb, I just would start laughing. Like when Serena was dumb enough to think she could violate the rules in front of the entire ruling council and get away with it. Like, girl, what did you EXPECT would happen? You got off easy based on their crappy rules. Fred only beat you for going against him, because it was in private; but if you scoff the rules in front of everyone, there's no hope for you to avoid punishment, they'll HAVE to punish you.

Or Aunt Lydia getting stabbed and beaten by Emily. Like, okay, whatever. But it was so crazy. And then I think Lydia probably survived that debacle. Like, if you're gonna kill Aunt Lydia, then freaking kill Aunt Lydia. But it felt more like a bone tossed to the audience because it was all so random and a pointless event.

Or Fred's relationship with June. One moment he's begging her to stay, another moment they're slapping each other, it just seems to go back and forth. Fred makes no coherent sense as a character anymore -- he just represents the patriarchy now.

The rule about women not being able to read is asinine, at least in regards to the Bible. This is common sense and how it bears out in practice. Even in patriarchal Christian churches, women are still allowed to read the Bible (if nothing else) because they usually end up doing the teaching for the children at young ages. Male teachers handle meaty teaching later, but all the Sunday school teachers are almost always women. The men don't want to do it. If they'll abuse their power, it would be to force the women to deal with the children until they get old enough to be trained by the men. Men are entrusted with "adult teaching," but women always train the children.

I figured June was going to stay. I am not sure why. There's a good chance she'll just be put to death now or get moved, or lose access to Hannah anyway. Make sure one of your kids is safe, then work to retrieve the next. It felt contrived, again.. because if you take June out of Gilead, what's left of a show?

Anyway, the best part of the episode for me was when Serena caught June fleeing with the baby. I really didn't know what Serena would do, and I felt like they had set up the dilemma because Serena had realized she was not safe from the patriarchy (after having her finger cut off), so her daughter would have no chance either. June played that just right, playing into Serena's sympathy as mother. She said all the right things and allowed Serena to be her "best self" in that moment and offer a true act of motherhood. There's a lot of other stuff that felt fake or contradictory in that episode, but that little scene actually felt very "true" to me.

Not sure how I feel about a third season. Flip-floppy drama meant primarily to stoke outrage is not something I'm much into. I want to watch the stories of human beings, whether they are fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, and journey with them... but Season 2 really seemed to lose its sense of who the characters were or where they were going -- they simply became representations of large social forces and mindsets, warring with each other.

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

Flip-floppy drama meant primarily to stoke outrage is not something I'm much into. I want to watch the stories of human beings, whether they are fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, and journey with them... but Season 2 really seemed to lose its sense of who the characters were or where they were going -- they simply became representations of large social forces and mindsets, warring with each other.

As Gilead begins to disintegrate, the characters are becoming increasingly unstable and less predictable. At least, that's what I personally took away from this season. I think any interpretation of the characters' relationships and decisions needs to take into account the very nature of Gilead itself.

I definitely see the government beginning to rapidly unravel... Especially now that many top-level Commanders are dead from Ofglen #2's attack, or in the case of Cushing, imprisoned (as a result of Serena's machinations). The damage done to Gilead throughout the season - Canada now has NO desire to engage in peace talks, leaders are dropping like flies, their wives aren't too happy, Marthas rebelling - is proving to be irreversible.

I was supremely disappointed and annoyed by the season finale, and from what I have read online, I'm far from alone. I'll give Season 3 a chance when it comes out next year, if only for the amazing cinematography and because I care about what happens to certain characters. I just hope it's worth it. I read somewhere that Bruce Miller saw this show as having like 9 or 10 seasons - if so, that's ridiculous. Wrap it up in the next two seasons, please. I get that they're trying to show the nuances of each character, provide everyone's backstories, and give more insight into how Gilead functions, but this show is hard as hell to watch sometimes, and they've more than proven their point by now.

That being said, one of my favorite (and most hilarious) moments of S2 happened in the finale -

June: "What are you doing?" Commander Lawrence: "I'm getting myself into deep shit!"

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

Or Aunt Lydia getting stabbed and beaten by Emily. Like, okay, whatever. But it was so crazy. And then I think Lydia probably survived that debacle. Like, if you're gonna kill Aunt Lydia, then freaking kill Aunt Lydia. But it felt more like a bone tossed to the audience because it was all so random and a pointless event.

Yeah, I wanted that bitch dead too...

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, that was a good line by Lawrence. Every so often, there would be a funny line at least.

I saw the same comment by the showrunner and I was like "Dear god, 10 seasons? No. Please, no." I mean GoT had the source material for much of its run and the quality is already deteriorating before Season 8 even arrived. Most shows can't do 10 seasons realistically. Breaking Bad only went 62 episodes and that's a pretty solid show.

I'm aware Gilead is under stress, but that doesn't change how I am perceiving the characters as inconsistently written in Season 2. I'm glad you are able to enjoy it, but for me, it's just unpredictable incoherent characterization. They really need to get each character on an understandable arc. We're seeing Serena on a vague one (moving from "supporting Gilead" to realizing she's as screwed as any other woman there now), but what's Fred want in life? He has no drive. Neither does Aunt Lydia. A lot of major characters don't really exist as people anymore, they're just impediments. Not sure what the hell Luke is doing either.

Season 3 better be about June trying to escape with Hannah because if it's not, well, what the hell is this story about?

It's just a shame, because the cinematography is beautiful, and the acting is generally top-notch.

 

[Hellena Handbasket]

I read the book in college and we discussed it being inspired by the Iranian Revolution.

I'm always hesitant when they make books I like into movies/shows. Its on my to watch list but I don't watch much television so who knows when I'll get around to watching.

 

[Norrsken]

Yesterday's episode got me feeling shit. I really hope Fred gets his ass kicked soon.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Yesterday's episode got me feeling shit. I really hope Fred gets his ass kicked soon.

I'm more mad at Serena. She's just such a crazy ass.

 

[Norrsken]

I'm more mad at Serena. She's just such a crazy ass.

How she gon sit there laughing and being all miss sunshine while her missing finger is out there,,,,,, somewhere!!11,,,,,,like

 

[Totenkindly]

Do they have any consistent character arcs this season, or is it all still about characters doing crazy stuff in service of the plot so as to wave flags and bolster Da Reziztants?