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  1. #1
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    Default Is Star Trek's Federation Fascist?

    I saw this video on youtube:




    Interesting argument, but I'm not sure if I agree. I think the Federation can be anything we want to project onto it. Some have argued they're the perfect socialist state, some have argued they're actually libertarian. I can understand why they might appear fascist. It seems like they've adopted a blend the best elements of multiple forms of government.

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    With all due respect,
    -Jack.

    You must be human . . . how weirdly exotic and excitingly perverse...

    I am the Cat who walks by Himself, and all places are alike to me...

    There were people who lied for gain, people who lied from pain,
    people who lied simply because the concept of telling the truth was utterly alien to them,
    and then there were people who lied because they were waiting for it to be time to tell the truth...

    Se > Ti > Fe = Ni > Ne = Si > Te = Fi

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    With all due respect,
    -Jack.

    You must be human . . . how weirdly exotic and excitingly perverse...

    I am the Cat who walks by Himself, and all places are alike to me...

    There were people who lied for gain, people who lied from pain,
    people who lied simply because the concept of telling the truth was utterly alien to them,
    and then there were people who lied because they were waiting for it to be time to tell the truth...

    Se > Ti > Fe = Ni > Ne = Si > Te = Fi

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    DS9 (and maybe The Undiscovered Country and Abramsverse) are the only series to suggest the Federation's dark side. If true it is fascist, then TNG is idealized representation, and propaganda. TOS and Enterprise then would be the equivalent of white washing and revisionist history.

    In Insurrection we see "rogue" Admiral Doherty allowing exploitation of the Baku people with the full backing of the Federation Council. We get a happy ending where everything is seemingly set right yet the disturbing thing is that the Federation allowed such an atrocity in the first place, bending one of their own most sacred principles (prime directive).

    In some ways I felt the Federation was more evil than the Borg. At least the Borg are honest about their nature. Same is true regarding most of the other foes and frenemies of the Federation.

    Janeway frequently breaks the prime directive yet has the nerve to claim otherwise when she meets that crazy Starfleet captain in Equinox.

    Picard and Kirk, for all their virtues, were still just glorified PR reps--preemptive damage control to guilt and lecture others. Both likely believed in the good of the Federation. Think of Picard lecturing Cardassian Gul Madred on torture, when Madred was likely already aware of the existence of Federation section 31 and some of their methods. At least Sisko was aware of and struggled with it when he bent the rules. Picard and Kirk were sanctimonious windbags.

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    The military class holds a ton of influence in the Federation. The few times we see civilian Presidents in Star Trek, they're always flanked by Starfleet advisors. That always seemed peculiar for a society where Starfleet's primary directive was supposed to be exploration. Seemed they had a large hand in influencing the mechanisms of government.

    There's even a sense of resentment toward Starfleet from some civilians (see Picard's brother and Sisko's dad). Is the military class more privileged, not in like the military in Starship Troopers?

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    Dont forget about the Maquis...and that sad business...not to mention the tactics used in Starfleet Academy with Red Squad during the Dominion War. etc...
    With all due respect,
    -Jack.

    You must be human . . . how weirdly exotic and excitingly perverse...

    I am the Cat who walks by Himself, and all places are alike to me...

    There were people who lied for gain, people who lied from pain,
    people who lied simply because the concept of telling the truth was utterly alien to them,
    and then there were people who lied because they were waiting for it to be time to tell the truth...

    Se > Ti > Fe = Ni > Ne = Si > Te = Fi

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    Default

    I disagree. The points made were not convincing and they were one sided. However, it was funny.

    Some have argued they're the perfect socialist state, some have argued they're actually libertarian
    It's definitely not socialist. This is clear especially from the DS9 series where multiple business giants clashing with others for resources.

    Ex - Ezri Dax's family has a large business empire which was at odds with a ferengi business rival. This is the episode in which Ezri's brother was under investigation for a murder.

    I think most of the citizens of the federation has moved away from monetary pursuits. This happens in a lot or nations where the gap between the rich and the poor is minimal such as in certain European countries. When resources and infrastructure are high, human needs are easily met (food, education, transport, housing, etc) therefore people don't have to struggle (don't have to be greedy) for resources.

    Ex - in a TNG fist season episode the enterprise wakes up some people who were in hibernation (don't know the proper wording for this). One man who was wealthy before he was being put to sleep insists that he needs to go back and claim his wealth (or something within similar lines) to which someone from the enterprise replies that humans have moved away from requirements such as those.

    Edit - found the episode

    The Neutral Zone (Star Trek: The Next Generation) - Wikipedia

    The word I was looking for was 'cryonically preserved humans.'
    .

  10. #10
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    No, its exactly the opposite, the first incarnation of Trek actually did feature Kirk travelling to an alternative reality in which the Federation was fascist and it was a very, very different place, with constant and casual violence, might makes right is at the heart of the fascist idea and ideology, and in many respects the Klingons in the earlier Trek where pseudo or proto-fascists but they were some what rehabilitated with later shows, such as Next Generation, and just their popularity among fans, and became a warrior state rather than a fascist one.

    Although I would say that the Federation is a traditional liberal "empire", its multi-cultural, post-capitalist, lawful and reasoning, it is a place in which outsiders are welcome, even if they can become a figure of fun like Spock was with the frequent "Spock bits" were they laughed at his lack of understanding (the aspect of "teaching" or reflecting on how to be a person in the show has been picked apart and should be obvious, it may explain its popularity with certain demographics who think a lot about those things too).

    Now, people hate that idea, for different reasons, post-modernists hate it because it can seem like a singular unchallenged narrative, and some of the later themes, the resurgence in metaphysics and spirituality in the one featuring a space station or out post (I cant recall its title right now) are a little post-modernist if you ask me, actual fascists are bound to hate it because of its liberalism and its voguish, in Orwellian style, to project and attack in that fashion, marxists hate it because it does portray a post-capitalist order but they suspect there's still class or social struggles unacknowledged or unawares going on (which I think can say something about some marxists and even some other sorts of agitators inability to imagine a time when "the war is over" or a real "end game").
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