suicide squad

[Tater]

i just got back from seeing this movie. it has its problems, but i don't think it deserves a 26% on rotten tomatoes. i would give it around a 65%.

has anyone else seen it? what did you think?

 

[Totenkindly]

I had tickets for yesterday but due to car trouble had to cancel.
(The cool part is that I could exchange it for credit and can just apply to a future ticket purchase.)

I still plan to go see it. I'm kind of shocked by the score; obviously it's not a direct quality rating, it's just saying that only 27% of reviewers would give it a Thumbs Up if they had to say yea or nay (whereas you were giving the movie an actual 65% in terms of quality?), but we're now in Sucker Punch territory. Srsly? (Actually, I like some aspects of Sucker Punch even if it could have been a better movie... darn, I say that about Snyder movies a lot.)

Anyway, I'll let you know what I think when I finally get to see it... and determine whether this is "bad movie" or simply "not what we expected / not as good as it could have been so it sucks" critic assessment.

 

[violet_crown]

I had tickets for yesterday but due to car trouble had to cancel.
(The cool part is that I could exchange it for credit and can just apply to a future ticket purchase.)

I still plan to go see it. I'm kind of shocked by the score; obviously it's not a direct quality rating, it's just saying that only 27% of reviewers would give it a Thumbs Up if they had to say yea or nay (whereas you were giving the movie an actual 65% in terms of quality?), but we're now in Sucker Punch territory. Srsly? (Actually, I like some aspects of Sucker Punch even if it could have been a better movie... darn, I say that about Snyder movies a lot.)

Anyway, I'll let you know what I think when I finally get to see it... and determine whether this is "bad movie" or simply "not what we expected / not as good as it could have been so it sucks" critic assessment.

Dude, it's hot, moist garbage. I went and saw it yesterday with some folks. A film buff like you would reel at the amount of things that are wrong from a technical point of view.

I went in with pretty limited expectations. I had read up a bit on what had gone down with the production. Apparently, most of what's wrong with the movie is attributable to the fact that Warner Bros was in crisis mode after Batman v. Superman bombed. One of the biggest critiques for why the DC movies were floundering in the way that they have been (+/- second Superman movie) is that they're so dark. Suicide Squad was directed by David Ayer, who also did Training Day among other dark, gritty action films on his resume, and initial versions of Suicide Squad were in that vein as shown by the trailer from last years San Diego Comic Con:

When Warner Bros balks, they do this end around thing where they let Ayers finish his version of the film, and then work on a new cut with the company they had do a new, funer trailer for the film.

They test both Ayers version and Trailer Park's (the trailer production studio) with an audience, and get better feedback on the latter. What ends up being released is some weird mishmash, Franken-version of the two, and it completely shows. The movie is tonally really weird. The overall premise of the movie is bleak af, and the comedic elements work against it in a way that doesn't really take that context into account. The central conflict is introduced in such a way that it's like..."Hey this looks like it's an issue. Oh is this is the issue? Well ok...I guess we're doing this, then. " People are introduced randomly and get disappeared.

Best parts of the movie are anything that involve Will Smith, Margot Robbie or Viola Davis. They do really good work. The music is good. Everything ends mercifully quickly. The only other good that can possibly said is a point that was made in an AV Club article on this movie that pointed out that when you have one of these franchise films that's given "too much to do", the movie tends to be poorly received. They pointed at Iron Man 2 as a film that was tasked with not only continuing the Iron Man story, but also intro'ing the characters and concept for the Avengers films. I felt pretty certain leaving the theatre that if they had done this movie 4-5 years from now with more groundwork in place, it would have been a much better film.

 

[Totenkindly]

Dude, it's hot, moist garbage. I went and saw it yesterday with some folks. A film buff like you would reel at the amount of things that are wrong from a technical point of view.

... ffuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkkk......

I gotta say, this is probably my largest disappointment of the year. I was expecting issues with Batman v Superman, I didn't expect a ton from Star Trek (and it was pretty much as I had expected), and I was a little disappointed over the reception to Jason Bourne; I was hoping THIS experience would at least be something nice under the tree.

I think I'll only feel worse if Rogue One ends up being a huge bomb.

.... What ends up being released is some weird mishmash, Franken-version of the two, and it completely shows. The movie is tonally really weird. The overall premise of the movie is bleak af, and the comedic elements work against it in a way that doesn't really take that context into account. The central conflict is introduced in such a way that it's like..."Hey this looks like it's an issue. Oh is this is the issue? Well ok...I guess we're doing this, then. " People are introduced randomly and get disappeared.

Arggggg.

Best parts of the movie are anything that involve Will Smith, Margot Robbie or Viola Davis. They do really good work. The music is good.

Yeah, I had heard that about Smith and Robbie, and I can't imagine Davis ever being bad. Well, anything that ensures we're going to see more of Robbie in other movies with any studio isn't a bad thing.

Everything ends mercifully quickly. The only other good that can possibly said is a point that was made in an AV Club article on this movie that pointed out that when you have one of these franchise films that's given "too much to do", the movie tends to be poorly received. They pointed at Iron Man 2 as a film that was tasked with not only continuing the Iron Man story, but also intro'ing the characters and concept for the Avengers films. I felt pretty certain leaving the theatre that if they had done this movie 4-5 years from now with more groundwork in place, it would have been a much better film.

it's been a persistent complaint about DC. They sat on the superhero movie concept for years, putting out a few decent pics as well as some bad ones. Then Marvel gets their shit together, starts pumping out some pretty decent pictures altogether, and then DC is like "Oh shit, we just lost our spot as king of the hill" and tries to rush in without doing any of the prep work or laying a good foundation. And they pay for it -- over, and over, and over again. Slow down. Do it right. The whole Justice League tie-in from BvS was half-assed IMO. It's just... really, guys? You have some of the greatest licensed characters in the history of comics. They don't seem to have the patience or big-picture vision to go the long haul here.

Now I'm wondering whether Wonder Woman will be any good; the trailer was decent, and Gadot LOOKS / EVOKES Wonder Woman, but I have no idea if she can carry a whole movie or how the movie itself will go.

 

[Beorn]

I'm just going to wait for the director's cut.

Maybe it will be better and contain more of the original vision.

 

[miss fortune]

it kind of felt like The Dirty Dozen meets the first Resident Evil movie... now with quirkier characters!

the assessment of our group who watched it was that the two best parts of the movie were Harley Quinn and the soundtrack and that in general the plot had a lot of flaws... like A LOT of them

 

[violet_crown]

... ffuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkkk......

I gotta say, this is probably my largest disappointment of the year. I was expecting issues with Batman v Superman, I didn't expect a ton from Star Trek (and it was pretty much as I had expected), and I was a little disappointed over the reception to Jason Bourne; I was hoping THIS experience would at least be something nice under the tree.

I think I'll only feel worse if Rogue One ends up being a huge bomb.

Yeah, girl. I hate to be the one, but I've given up on this summer. Thank god for Stranger Things. It was like the spirit of Spielberg himself came down and blessed us in these bleak times.

I'm also living my best life working through a list of experimental and avant garde horror I'd had sitting on a letterboxd for months now.

(Which reminds me I need to get your handle for that site.)

Yeah, I had heard that about Smith and Robbie, and I can't imagine Davis ever being bad. Well, anything that ensures we're going to see more of Robbie in other movies with any studio isn't a bad thing.

I'm in love with Margot Robbie. I want nothing for good things for her. She's, for better or worse, one of those people who's so beautiful that it's almost a handicap to her, career-wise. It's the same problem Brad Pitt had for most of the early part of his career where you have a guy who's clearly a brilliant character actor who gets these bland leading roles because of his looks. There's a piece on Fandor about the double edged sword of having her role in Wolf of Wall Street be her breakthrough. Where she's amazing in it, has incredible exposure from it, but having to work through being sidelined as just a sex object since.

it's been a persistent complaint about DC. They sat on the superhero movie concept for years, putting out a few decent pics as well as some bad ones. Then Marvel gets their shit together, starts pumping out some pretty decent pictures altogether, and then DC is like "Oh shit, we just lost our spot as king of the hill" and tries to rush in without doing any of the prep work or laying a good foundation. And they pay for it -- over, and over, and over again. Slow down. Do it right. The whole Justice League tie-in from BvS was half-assed IMO. It's just... really, guys? You have some of the greatest licensed characters in the history of comics. They don't seem to have the patience or big-picture vision to go the long haul here.

Now I'm wondering whether Wonder Woman will be any good; the trailer was decent, and Gadot LOOKS / EVOKES Wonder Woman, but I have no idea if she can carry a whole movie or how the movie itself will go.

Now that you've brought this up it brings to mind a really interesting idea for me. Warner Brothers was the studio that did the Dark Knight trilogy. Why are they trying to beat Marvel playing the same game, if they have the wherewithal to make films like that?

It feels like taking a more highbrow/arthouse route to comic book films is where they were trying to go with the "darker" Superman films, but there are so many more ways to make a film artistically interesting or meaningful than just making it "dark". I think it's actually kind of a cop out at this point to just grit some shit up and think that automatically equates to depth. Semi-related, but my mom always railed against the Oprah's book club for that reason.

But yeah, I 100% agree that the issue has been this rush to compete that's led to a lot of shitty movies. I completely understand how DC might have felt that pressure because of the amount of money that Marvel is making, but like you said, they're screwing up their brand in the process. Have you heard about them retconning the comics themselves to support the movies??

 

[Puffypolma]

Can't see it in China and it pisses me off.

 

[Forever]

Heard it was so bad, that last night I watched Jason Bourne instead.

Biggest boss and I been the trillest
I'm a bigger problem when I click with Skrillex
Murder on my mind, it's time to pray to God
My revolver is that religion's the revolution's bond
You wanna know my name then go and tell them Sarg
You wanna know my gang, Suicide squad
Pistol on my waist, I might make a mistake
Dead shot, head shot, oh my God, am I crazy?
Drugs every corner, this is Gotham City
Killer Croc came to kidnap you, to cut out your kidney
Ain't no mercy, got that purple Lamborghini lurkin'
Rozay, don't you know that pussy worth it
Flooded Rolex at the Grammy awards
They still sellin' dope, that's those Miami boys
Killers everywhere, it ain't no place to run
Forgive me for my wrongs, I have just begun

Ain't no mercy, a-ain't no mercy
Got that purple Lamborghini lurkin'
Ain't no mercy, a-ain't no mercy
Got that purple Lamborghini lurkin

Don't be beggin' for your life cause that's a lost cause
High stakes, body armor, suicide boy
There's a time for games and there's a time to kill
Make up your mind baby, there's no time to chill
Capital murder, capital lettuce
Yeah she catchin' my vibe but can't fathom my cheddar
Need a couple gang members for these new endeavors
From this point on anything we do, we do together
Body on the corner, million in the trunk
Seven figures, I will spend that every other month
Killers on the corner, talons in the clip
Villa Palisade and Paris just to fill with bitches
Say my name and I'm coming with the gun squad
Everybody runnin', homie, there's only one God
Cocaine, white Ferrari, I'm in the fast lane
Every day was life and death, that's when the cash came
Count money, drug residue even blood on 'em
He had a driver 'til I put my cause on it
Kickin' in the dope boy, Suicide Squad
Needle in my arm so I'm do or die for it

Ain't no mercy, a-ain't no mercy
Got that purple Lamborghini lurkin'
Ain't no mercy, a-ain't no mercy
Got that purple Lamborghini lurkin', Rozay

Power
Greed
Devious
Needs
Highstakes
(Cash money)
Dope boy
(Rap money)
Real hip
Forgive me for my wrongs, I have just begun
Rozay

 

[prplchknz]

I liked it probably not my favorite movie ever, of course there's very few movies i hate. I tend to like most movies i just don't expect the world to be some type of way i guess.

 

[Totenkindly]

Saw it.

Flawed movie, though better than I thought it would be based on the level of harshing.


1. Some tonal issues. Big problem syncing up with the first ten minutes vs much of the rest of the movie.

2. In fact, the first ten minutes (where they are essentially doing flashbacks for the various dossiers) feels like it was tossed in later. They're pitching text and shit on the screen, like Deadpool breaking the wall, but then don't do this for the rest of the movie. I'm also glad they stopped the dossier schtick versus doing everyone; it was getting old fast.

3. Inaccurate marketing campaign -- the trailers were GREAT in dragging people to the theater, but unfortunately the tone of the movie does not match the tone of the trailers. It's a dark movie, the jokes framed in the trailers are separated in the script, so they come off as more sardonic than crazy-funny, etc. I didn't find it clashed that much, if you read it as sardonic to start with, but when you're expecting crazy-goofy-funny, it can seem a dour movie.


/// I think some of the overall issues people had involve the tonal problem, especially compared to the advertising campaign. You mislead the audience, then they're stuck thinking stuff that might have been okay on its own is crap because it's not what they were promised. ///


4. Various plot blips, things that happened that are like "WTF just happened? Why didn't they do <this> instead and circumvent the issue? Where did those bullets come from?? How did THAT happen?" I think about half of these are probably editing issues -- where they were cutting and splicing scenes that weren't planned in that order, or stuff got cut that would have explained / patched up those seeming plot holes.

5. Big problem with the major plot -- first of all, the threat seems very unlike the first thirty minutes of the movie, it's like, "oh, so THAT's the direction we're going in now?" And then the villain itself, it just seems to have a number of holes in it or things that should have gone differently. Plus a lot of video-game graphics that look like needlessly held actions meant to appease a certain stereotype, but... whatever.

Oh yeah, and the Bigger Bad:

who is supposed to be a god is blown up by a bomb small enough to be carried by humans. Yeah. Whatever. That's what happens when you drag magic/divinity into a fight with people who are still human, because technically they have no way to win, so you resort to insensible plot resolutions like this.

6. Amanda Waller is a bad-ass bitch. I won't say more, just... she caught me off-guard a few times.

7. The script spends the most time on Deadshot and Harley Quinn, so of course that's part of why Smith and Robbie are getting a lot of kudos... but the truth is that they both also nail their performances. Smith is the human grounding of the movie; and Robbie *is* Harley Quinn, honestly, she's totally got this role down. I didn't have issues with Leto and this version of the Joker -- it was kind of neat to see the quirky gangsta performance -- and he actually really unsettled me a few times; but here he plays second fiddle to Harley, she is really the focus.


The truth is that there's a lot of shit out there in the fantasy, sci-fi, and comic book genres, and I've seen a ton worse than this movie. (Anyone for Beastmaster or Krull? WHEEE!) The main disappointment is that, based on the source material and the talent, this should have been a lot better. It was generally enjoyable as a genre movie, it had a few powerful scenes in it as well as a few strong performances; and the main issues are tonal, editing, and flat dialogue in spots, as well as a rather aimless plot that seems to change target as the movie progresses. Did I care what happened to the characters at that end? A little... at least for just a few of them. But not a ton.

I guess it's like maybe it's pretty awesome when a low-ranking tennis player reaches Round #3 in Wimbledon even if they lose in straight matches at that point, but when the player expected to win the trophy struggles through two rounds and gets wiped in straight sets in Round #3, it's considered a flop. The film squandered a lot of resources for only average results.


TO return to the OP and Floki's score: I think that's pretty on the dot: the quality of the movie (not the RT score, but grading the movie as a straight grade), yeah, 65% in terms of the overall outcome. Maybe 70% if you felt generous.

 

[Totenkindly]

(Which reminds me I need to get your handle for that site.)

Ironically, it's... Totenkindly.

 

[violet_crown]

Ironically, it's... Totenkindly.

Just added you. Three and a half stars for Suicide Squad was incredibly generous. I'm just going to assume at least two of those stars are Margot Robbie-related.

 

[Totenkindly]

Just added you. Three and a half stars for Suicide Squad was incredibly generous. I'm just going to assume at least two of those stars are Margot Robbie-related.

They probably were, honestly. I just really liked her performance, I could watch that all day.

I really wanted to give it a 65%, but unfortunately 3/5 = 60% and 3.5/5 = 70%. Meh. I NEED A QUARTER STAR.


EDIT: Meh. I think I'm changing it back to a 3 and giving a quarter-star in the review. For Robbie.


EDIT2: Here's another sign of plot problems -- when you do not define what a particular character is capable of doing or not doing. i.e, the "Fuzzy Powers" syndrome. You have to set your logic up front so the audience can understand the framework, not have a "magic wonder bag" that you pull shit out of to drive your plot. You know which character I am talking about, no doubt.... It never was really clear what the capabilities ever were.

 

[Totenkindly]

Found this description of all the cuts from the movie (deleted/expanded scenes).

Obviously Spoilers.

I find the reworking of the Joker/Harley relationship interesting. Also you can see where things were modified down to fit PG-13 in terms of some of the characters (Slipknot and Captain Boomerang), etc. Also there are mentions of scenes featuring heavily in the trailers that somehow never made the final cut.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

The market is saturated with SW, ST, remakes (let's stop using the word "reboot," please) of "the classics," and marvel films, so unless they're going to put some care and effort into their cinematic universe, DC needs to stop.

The Marvel CU works (for the most part) because they obviously took a lot of care in planning out and laying some groundwork. You've really got to world build gradually before you just toss a bunch of characters out of the car and expect them to hit the ground running.

I agree that BvS felt half-assed especially when they introduced the other meta humans. Wonder Woman should have gotten her own film first, to better establish her character. Also, why did it feel like the filmmakers couldn't decide if they were making a follow up to the Nolan trilogy or a reboot? While we all know the Batman origin story and didn't need another Batman Begins, I would have at least enjoyed a little bit more character development for Batfleck, assuming this is not a hard continuation of the Bale universe, which, without any background info, seems unclear after watching this one.

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, with Batfleck we got nuthin'.

Also, aside from Christopher Nolan (whose Batman doesn't even factor into the DC universe movie roll-out apparently), the movies have generally sucked even as standalones. That's ANOTHER huge problem.

With Marvel, not only did they invest the time to slowly build an umbrella narrative, but starting with Iron Man and moving forward, most of the movies have been not just solid but a few are stellar all on their own. I'd say Thor (1) and Iron Man 2 were probably the worst but were still probably acceptable and didn't really drag down the story arc.

 

[Riva]

Shitty movie. Can't believe they fucked things up this bad. They had so many characters to play with but completely failed at character development. Rotten tomatoes - which is completely unreliable - gave it 27%. It deserved that bad rating. Rotten tomatoes usually gives bad reviews to DC movies and too good ratings for marvel. For example it had given 90% rating to doctor strange. I was like wtf that movie sucked. But it giving suicide squad bad ratings, i have no complaints with.

The character enchantress was a a treat to watch when she was being spooky. They should have kept her that way than turning her into the i-am-going-to-rule-the-world they made her be. Boring. Her initial spooky scenes were scary and cool.

They didnt reveal about joker's past either. People were expecting that. Some were guessing he was a former robin turned into a joker by the previous joker. Nope nothing there either

 

[Riva]

I should add, a lot of people are criticising Jared Leto's potrayal of the joker by comparing him with Ledger. That's quite unfair because the movie, the script and the parts ledger had to play was just gold, whereas leto's scenes were normal. That point of mine i've seen been made before.

Also what most people probably forgot was Ledger's joker died in the third Bale movie. This is a completely different person, perhaps a former Robin gone mad. His potrayal had to be different.

Anyway,

Ledger Joker - Psychopathic Anarchist ENTP (or enfp)
Leto Joker - Sociopathic focused (gangster) ESTP

 

[Totenkindly]

With Suicide Squad, I'm not sure any movie took so much and made so little out of it.
And the bits I liked, I'm not sure were worth all the effort.
'tis a shame.

Also what most people probably forgot was Ledger's joker died in the third Bale movie.

Uhhh.... no? He simply wasn't dealt with. Mainly because Ledger died. The novelization is apparently even more explicit about this:

Find Out Where The Joker Was During The Dark Knight Rises - CINEMABLEND

But yeah, Leto's Joker and Ledger's Joker are different interpretations, very much so. I liked them both, although I felt like Ledger's was more unexpected and interesting in terms of spin. Gangsta-Joker was kinda interesting but not nearly as fresh and putting such a twist on the material as Dark Knight.