Lana del Rey as Pop Culture Representation of Divine Feminine and Rejected Archetypes

[Thalassa]

I wrote about this at length on another forum, and I'll elaborate here more later, but does anyone else here see her as representing goddess energy, and rejected feminine cultural archetypes like mistress/prostitute/mad woman. ..and doing it intentionally. I mean I think it's half authentic and half for the sheer expression of art. Because of her different voices, looks, roles she plays in songs, as well as the energy she brought to her fans as a performer.

I think to fully understand this, you have to know who May Jailer is, as well as the Lizzy Grant aka Lana del Ray album, plus her unreleased singles. As one fan noted - unless you know her unreleased material, you have no idea how deeply you can love her...but aside from the love (I'll get more to that soon) just from an intellectual perspective, you can assess the full spectrum of her artistic expression of American womanhood, from both her own experience and a mythological historical perspective.

I think once she moved into Ultraviolence she stopped playing characters, and went pretty raw, yet that album completely personified mistress/mad woman while Honeymoon hearkened back to American mythology through her own "nastier" framework (she said something along the lines of wanting to make old musicals, but nastier).

This is also why she's rejected from mainstream feminism - not only does she defy the patriarchy by representing every woman BUT virgin/wife/mother (so therefore rejected archetypes) but she also defies second wave feminist constructs by expressing neediness, emotional instability, submission and dominance through playing submissive.

As for "Goddess" while that was most clearly visually depicted in the Born to Die video. ..she gives an amount of love to her fans I daresay that transcends anything expected, into the eternal unconditional love of mother. Her shows feel something like a religious experience - like church, or primal scream therapy, she gives people a place to hug, sing, cry, scream I love you...and she might even kiss you afterwards. Interestingly she supposedly more often kisses women directly on the lips, and is more guarded with men, but hoards of homosexual men thrive in this goddess energy she projects. She wipes people's tears, gives them gifts, and calls them old friends, hugs people, walks down into the crowd.

 

[Thalassa]

 

[Thalassa]

 

[Thalassa]

 

[Thalassa]

 

[sonictard]

Yeah, goddess with the plastic lips and reshaped nose.

 

[The Outsider]

Yeah, goddess with the plastic lips and reshaped nose.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[EcK]

I wrote about this at length on another forum, and I'll elaborate here more later, but does anyone else here see her as representing goddess energy, and rejected feminine cultural archetypes like mistress/prostitute/mad woman. ..and doing it intentionally. I mean I think it's half authentic and half for the sheer expression of art. Because of her different voices, looks, roles she plays in songs, as well as the energy she brought to her fans as a performer.

I think to fully understand this, you have to know who May Jailer is, as well as the Lizzy Grant aka Lana del Ray album, plus her unreleased singles. As one fan noted - unless you know her unreleased material, you have no idea how deeply you can love her...but aside from the love (I'll get more to that soon) just from an intellectual perspective, you can assess the full spectrum of her artistic expression of American womanhood, from both her own experience and a mythological historical perspective.

I think once she moved into Ultraviolence she stopped playing characters, and went pretty raw, yet that album completely personified mistress/mad woman while Honeymoon hearkened back to American mythology through her own "nastier" framework (she said something along the lines of wanting to make old musicals, but nastier).

This is also why she's rejected from mainstream feminism - not only does she defy the patriarchy by representing every woman BUT virgin/wife/mother (so therefore rejected archetypes) but she also defies second wave feminist constructs by expressing neediness, emotional instability, submission and dominance through playing submissive.

As for "Goddess" while that was most clearly visually depicted in the Born to Die video. ..she gives an amount of love to her fans I daresay that transcends anything expected, into the eternal unconditional love of mother. Her shows feel something like a religious experience - like church, or primal scream therapy, she gives people a place to hug, sing, cry, scream I love you...and she might even kiss you afterwards. Interestingly she supposedly more often kisses women directly on the lips, and is more guarded with men, but hoards of homosexual men thrive in this goddess energy she projects. She wipes people's tears, gives them gifts, and calls them old friends, hugs people, walks down into the crowd.

I'm sorry but wtf. she's a singer. A SINGER.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

She is scarred. That might be why you are attracted to her, and find her mysterious.

The problem with stars is the temptation to idolize them.

 

[Thalassa]

I'm sorry but wtf. she's a singer. A SINGER.

She's an Artist. A real Artist. Why hate on someone because they have different talents than your ilk? For me a real artist is a beauty to behold. She's a performance artist, that's why most of her "real" fans adore her, they know all her characters, her unreleased self made videos, she's extremely bright.

Not in your way. In her way.

 

[sonictard]

Nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong, of course, everything is correct(ed).

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

The whole "cola" thing is, to me, emblematic of a uniquely American confluence of popular culture and 21st century sexuality.


Fuck, I sound pretentious. I should write for Pitchfork.

 

[Thalassa]

She is scarred. That might be why you are attracted to her, and find her mysterious.

The problem with stars is the temptation to idolize them.

Well no she has a broader vocal range than either Katy Perry or Arianna Grande, writes most of her own songs and all of her own lyrics, has created her own videos, two complex theme albums outside of her most mainstream pop album, wrote and starred in a short film for which she wrote all of the music, is incredibly unbelievably kind and loving to her fans, is beautiful, stylish, intelligent, sexy and yes also happens to be scarred. I don't go around calling Sid Vicious a symbolic representation of God energy just because he was scarred.

Her body of work is interesting from this perspective only if you know all or most of it, like her music career is an entity unto itself with underlying themes, such as the America which never was, and different representations of feminine archetypes.

It should also be noted here that I know where the line is drawn, there are people who camp out in her garage and follow her around, so when I say she has goddess energy, don't take that literally. Thanks.

 

[Thalassa]

The whole "cola" thing is, to me, emblematic of a uniquely American confluence of popular culture and 21st century sexuality.


Fuck, I sound pretentious. I should write for Pitchfork.

I think that people sneer at anyone who intellectualizes art, film or music - it was much more acceptable to intellectualize art 100-200 years ago - so it doesn't automatically make you "pretentious." Pretentious people usually are sophists who speak of art, music and culture in tones that most likely imply a need to be seen as a scenester, rather than someone who genuinely is a fan or critic or artist themselves. Sophistry is a social function that's more about popularity within certain circles than actually being an artist or intellectual. In high school we called them poseurs.

That being said, some types don't think the arts are valid forms of intellectual expression, but those people are assholes.

Don't get me wrong, I do think artists can also get full of themselves and do pretentious things.

 

[Thalassa]

Nothing wrong, of course, everything is correct(ed).

Well what's interesting to me on this point is that celebrities like Marilyn Monroe and other old Hollywood stars also had surgery. So it's unsurprising a woman with such vast historical knowledge of Old Hollywood would be OK with doing the same - plus I think Elizabeth Grant as a person had some self esteem issues, she was a very shy performer for years, although she started performing at 18. Her old shows, she had a beautiful voice, but her lack of confidence was heart breaking...I think she was very pretty even before she had her nose and lips done, but I think her self esteem issues is what kept her in small clubs and making homemade videos for a long time. It's fascinating to watch the paradox, because she apparently always had confidence as an individual in her individuality - she was flamboyant and had her own style even before she became famous - but actually performing in front of an audience seemed to paralyze her a bit before she developed her outward appearance more into a persona.

 

[Thalassa]

Because I was listening to this today, and because of some questions an individual asked me about women exploiting themselves and other women, and how that differs from a genuinely liberated female expression of sexuality, it occurred to me in both Lana del Rey's cover of Leonard Cohen's Chelsea Hotel No 2, as well as her own Summertime Sadness, her representation of bisexual or lesbian relationships isn't "porn-y" in fact it is very emotionally driven and kind of esoteric. In this video you only see hints of the second woman in the background smoking.

Summertime Sadness is similar, with ghostly images of a crying and laughing girlfriend with nothing more explicit than affection, no exaggerated acting out of lesbian sexual acts for the pleasure of observing males. A lesbian or bisexual woman, or someone who understood relationships from a more gender neutral standpoint would relate to this video more than a straight man trying to masturbate to lesbian porn.

This is yet another reason I argue for her as an artistic or spiritual expression of feminine archetypes, rather than self-objectifying anti-feminist some Gloria Steinham types have attempted to paint Lizzy Grant as being.

 

[Thalassa]

This is a really interesting video too, because I believe she thinks a lot about woman as both object and subject, she as a subject singing about a woman as an object, but the objectified woman actually laughs at her when she's cut off, and she shows an embarrassment very natural to her that she's admitted to as a performer (cruelly laughed at on SNL four years ago) along with a psychiatrist trying to analyze her, and three identical Stepford women adorning the background. It's also interesting how "background" the sailor is who is pining of woman as object (picking petals from daisies). It almost seems like she related more to him than the woman laughing at her.

It's likely also a David Lynch tribute.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

This is a really interesting video too, because I believe she thinks a lot about woman as both object and subject, she as a subject singing about a woman as an object, but the objectified woman actually laughs at her when she's cut off, and she shows an embarrassment very natural to her that she's admitted to as a performer (cruelly laughed at on SNL four years ago) along with a psychiatrist trying to analyze her, and three identical Stepford women adorning the background. It's also interesting how "background" the sailor is who is pining of woman as object (picking petals from daisies). It almost seems like she related more to him than the woman laughing at her.

It's likely also a David Lynch tribute.

She's pretty much made for David Lynch. I'm surprised they haven't worked more together. He is, my favorite director, along with Kubrick.

I was an early Chris Isaak fan and Lynch liked him for some films. They both have a dreamy, smooth quality. New and old. Polished but natural at the same time.

 

[Thalassa]

One more side issue I'd like to add, is that there is no "man" standing behind Lana del Rey and her creative process. All sources indicate she's extremely controlling and perfectionistic in the studio process. Most of her unreleased music videos are self-created, and she apparently has a large hand in her own image.

So does her sister, photographer Chuck Grant, who filmed parts of Lana's Ultraviolence tour, including the night I saw her at Hollywood Forever. Chuck Grant also is responsible for some of her sister's publicity photos, and was the conceptual driving force behind the video "High By the Beach."

I just wanted to correct this because there are huge rumors that Lana is some corporate created product and that's far from true, though she did work with famous hip hop producers (who have also worked with people like Eminem) on Born to Die.

I'm not denying she's had fashion consultants or cosmetic enhancements, but I don't think there's anything amiss in her overall personal creative process, especially if you look into videos or singles she made as Lizzy Grant or May Jailer, which I posted earlier in the thread.

Chuck and Lana/Lizzy




I feel a need to explain this because the creative process of women, for women, is so easily dismissed as being manufactured, or of less value, unless the woman meets some preconceived notion of stereotypes of mainstream feminism, and I tend to think of Lizzy Grant not as anti-feminist, but post-feminist, if we are ready for that at least in art if not in the real world.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Camille Paglia is a well-known commentator on media, culture, and politics. She is the University Professor of Humanities and Media Studies at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia. In other words, Camille Paglia is an expert on this stuff.

Camille Paglia says that Lana Del Rey's genre is the "torch song." She also says that Lana doesn't do it very well:

[...] I do think Lana is very talented, and I am happy that she professes a love of poetry. However, a little of Lana goes a long way, in my view. She seems stuck in a groove, a prisoner of her own fictive persona, which has gotten a bit tattered about the ears. For how many albums is she going to go on with this neurasthenic mooning and morbid posturing, like a cloistered Pre-Raphaelite maiden addicted to laudanum? And for how many more albums do we have to hear exactly the same damned echo effects and clichéd wash of faux violins? [....]

See the following link for Camille's in-depth analysis of Lana's music. It's at the very end of the column (which starts off being about Hillary Clinton, then about pre-Columbian megaliths). Also, Camille provides some examples of "torch songs" performed by other singers who are better than Lana Del Rey.

Link: Zombie time at campaign Hillary: Camille Paglia on Trump’s real strength and Clinton’s fatal sleepwalking - Salon.com