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Movies & Shows everyone seems to love so much and you can't understand why!

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Fresh spin? It was in 3D, wasn't it? James Cameron is a blockbuster filmmaker not an artist, for fucks sake.

Yes, but Christopher Nolan also makes blockbusters, and they manage to not be dull. Interstellar was a much better movie than Avatar. Same for Ridley Scott... his movies are sometimes flawed, and sometimes awkwardly incorporate modern ideas into historical settings where they really didn't exist, but they're always interesting to watch. I found Prometheus more enjoyable than Avatar, too.
 

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Well, Avatar was really well-done 3D honestly... kind of an "experience" when I saw the movie in the theater, and that was the primary reason I went, I wanted that immersive experience and I got it.

But it didn't add a ton to the genre convention. Probably "The Last Samurai" for me was the best tale of that cloth that I've seen, out of the 5-6 movies I can recall right now that had the same plotline; and even that was historically off a bit since the samurai weren't necessarily all noble historically but also wanted to retain power. Still, at least that version had some meaning and context. Avatar still remains a popcorn-muncher.

I thought Cameron's "The Abyss" (extended cut) was really good, it might be my favorite of all his movies in terms of the character depth. (And he tried to provide a bit of depth in the extended cut of T2, with the inclusion of Dyson and a learning Terminator, and contrasting its progression towards humanity with Sarah as a human becoming a terminator). It's unfortunate his biggest (and most recent) movies have suffered story-wise. Not that they might not be enjoyable on a casual level, but not as enduring as they could have been.

Yes, but Christopher Nolan also makes blockbusters, and they manage to not be dull. Interstellar was a much better movie than Avatar. Same for Ridley Scott... his movies are sometimes flawed, and sometimes awkwardly incorporate modern ideas into historical settings where they really didn't exist, but they're always interesting to watch. I found Prometheus more enjoyable than Avatar, too.

Gawd. It hurts to hear you say that, because Prometheus was edited to death unfortunately and came into the world missing some limbs, but... probably. Yes. And damn, it was a beautiful movie -- not in the way Avatar was, but just in a more transcendent way like when David is in the star sphere. And the whole opening scene with the Engineers. It definitely aspired to more; I'll give Scott that. Just wish they would put back in the 20 minutes or so they cut out, which really gutted the movie dramatically and rationally.
 

violet_crown

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Yes, but Christopher Nolan also makes blockbusters, and they manage to not be dull. Interstellar was a much better movie than Avatar.

I mean, if we're gonna go there, so was Ferngully...
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Well, Avatar was really well-done 3D honestly... kind of an "experience" when I saw the movie in the theater, and that was the primary reason I went, I wanted that immersive experience and I got it.

I didn't see it in theaters, so perhaps that is why I have no reverence towards it of any kind. I was inclined to focus on the story, and I was not impressed.

But it didn't add a ton to the genre convention. Probably "The Last Samurai" for me was the best tale of that cloth that I've seen, out of the 5-6 movies I can recall right now that had the same plotline; and even that was historically off a bit since the samurai weren't necessarily all noble historically but also wanted to retain power. Still, at least that version had some meaning and context. Avatar still remains a popcorn-muncher.

So that's worth a watch, then? The period in history is interesting and I'm capable of recognizing that such things aren't documentaries.

Have you seen the Cage/Christensen vehicle "Outcast"? It appears to deal with similar themes. Looked like a real winner.

I thought Cameron's "The Abyss" (extended cut) was really good, it might be my favorite of all his movies in terms of the character depth. (And he tried to provide a bit of depth in the extended cut of T2, with the inclusion of Dyson and a learning Terminator, and contrasting its progression towards humanity with Sarah as a human becoming a terminator). It's unfortunate his biggest (and most recent) movies have suffered story-wise. Not that they might not be enjoyable on a casual level, but not as enduring as they could have been.

Hmm, I haven't seen that. Even so, I feel like even Aliens and the first two Terminators suffered somewhat because of the way the characters are written.

Gawd. It hurts to hear you say that, because Prometheus was edited to death unfortunately and came into the world missing some limbs, but... probably. Yes. And damn, it was a beautiful movie -- not in the way Avatar was, but just in a more transcendent way like when David is in the star sphere. And the whole opening scene with the Engineers. It definitely aspired to more; I'll give Scott that. Just wish they would put back in the 20 minutes or so they cut out, which really gutted the movie dramatically and rationally.

Apparently the script was messed around with a lot, as well. Much of the more nonsensical elements appear to be a product of either things being removed from earlier drafts, or slapdash additions in later drafts. It's certainly not a perfect movie, but it's visually interesting and is very compelling within the first half. The movie really fell apart in the second half. The fact that it didn't deliver on the opening led to the movie being perceived as worse than it actually was.

I'll take an ambitious mess of a cocktail like Prometheus than bland, middling flushed toilet-water like Avatar any day.
 

Frosty

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Avatar was a boring, predictable piece of crap. It was a beautiful, boring, predictable piece of crap, but it was still a boring, predictable piece of crap. I could predict every single plot development in that movie at least 30 minutes in advance.

I don't have an issue with the hero's journey, but for God's sake, put a fresh spin on it. James Cameron has no fucking clue how to do subtlety; all his scripts are filled with cliche characters, cartoon heroes and villains. (It's one reason I think Alien is a superior film to Aliens, although I wouldn't call the sequel a bad movie; it still had more originality in five minutes than Avatar did throughout its whole runtime.) The characters in the Star Wars prequels are nuanced in comparison.

I dont really remember much of the plot of the movie. I mean I remember thinking that the characters wernt very in depth, and overall that the plot was really shallow. I thought that the movie was extremely pretty, they did a really good job on that aspect of it, it just wasnt enough to sustain my attention for 3 hours or however long that movie was. Imagery can only go so far with me.

What did you think of the Avengers?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I dont really remember much of the plot of the movie. I mean I remember thinking that the characters wernt very in depth, and overall that the plot was really shallow. I thought that the movie was extremely pretty, they did a really good job on that aspect of it, it just wasnt enough to sustain my attention for 3 hours or however long that movie was. Imagery can only go so far with me.

What did you think of the Avengers?

Avengers was enjoyable, and I think it's preferable to Avatar by a long shot, but it suffered by having uninteresting villains. The strength of that kind of movie really depends on the villain, and it's why I think The Dark Knight has yet to be topped in the superhero genre.

The ideal villains are either, I think, Machiavellian geniuses or unfathomable forces of nature. They represent our anxieties and our uncertainties. Loki was just a dude who was envious of his brother because of his muscles, and the aliens had no personality. I thought Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy was a better villain, actually; he was a guy that was driven by pure hate.
 

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Avengers was enjoyable, and I think it's preferable to Avatar by a long shot, but it suffered by having uninteresting villains. The strength of that kind of movie really depends on the villain, and it's why I think The Dark Knight has yet to be topped in the superhero genre.

The ideal villains are either, I think, Machiavellian geniuses or unfathomable forces of nature. They represent our anxieties and our uncertainties. Loki was just a dude who was jealous of his brother because of his muscles, and the aliens had no personality. I thought Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy was a better villain, actually; he was a guy that was driven by pure hate.


Ok yeah, I havent watched it and I generally don't like action movies, but I have heard good things about it and just wondered if it was worth it. Thanks!!
 

chickpea

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family guy makes me want to smash the tv. last time i watched it i said "not funny" after every "joke" but apparently that can be percieved as "annoying" and "unattractive."
 

Coriolis

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I always thought that the deal with BBT was to present "genius" in a manner that was not actually alienating to the average viewer. Like, you throw enough entry-level popsci references to Einstein and quantum physics, and Joe Blow can feel like he's watching "smart television" while still being able to follow the jokes.

I feel a lot of shows with supposedly brilliant protagonist suffer from this problem. Sherlock and House are examples that come to mind immediately. Beyond the challenge of making genius accessible, is the technical difficulty presented by the medium of episodic storytelling. I'd imagine that having to come up with a problem that is both resolvable in a 20 or 45 minute timeframe, while being complex enough that it would take a seemingly brilliant mind to get to the bottom of it is a pretty demanding feat for a writing room. More serialized programs that allow for more protracted arcs between setup-->resolution can permit a world and characters with realistic shades and ambiguities to evolve, as well as the time a viewer needs to become invested in really understanding them. Such that when Walter White manages to get his money and the rest of his meth stash back from another drug lord armed with nothing but a bag of fulminated mercury, it's awesome rather than gimmicky.
Is BBT supposed to be about geniuses, or scientists? The two groups are not identical. There are geniuses in every field, and most physicists don't meet the standards of true genius. You don't need the weekly plot to revolve around solution of a complex problem to make the science real and present in the series. It's fine for the plotlines to revolve around relationships and daily life - in fact that is what will keep the show accessible to the average viewer. The science can reside in subplots and background, but in BBT, it doesn't even do that.
 

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family guy makes me want to smash the tv. last time i watched it i said "not funny" after every "joke" but apparently that can be percieved as "annoying" and "unattractive."

Yeah, I'm not particularly a big fan either. The show relies heavily on cutaways for its humor, which I find kind of... lazy, I guess? Gets monotonous & tired pretty fast. A few random bits have struck me as clever on rare occasion, but for the most part, the humor just doesn't do it for me.
 

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Eh I like family guy. Its something to pass the time, and the story lines are usually at least semi original if a bit zany. I am younger though so maybe that has a part in it.
 

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Is BBT supposed to be about geniuses, or scientists?

Both, actually. The subtext on the show is that the characters are so awkward not just because they work in the sciences, but because their intellect make the mores of "average folk" incomprehensible to them. It's apparently mentioned explicitly somewhere in the show that Leonard is supposed to have an IQ of of 173 and Sheldon is supposed to have an IQ of 187. Obviously IQ is not an end all be all measure of genius, but taken altogether, you get the point.

You don't need the weekly plot to revolve around solution of a complex problem to make the science real and present in the series. It's fine for the plotlines to revolve around relationships and daily life - in fact that is what will keep the show accessible to the average viewer. The science can reside in subplots and background, but in BBT, it doesn't even do that.

The point that I was making was that part of the appeal of the show is the vicarious experience of "genius" for the intellectually lazy. If people wanted a show just about the relationships and daily life, they'd watch Friends. So to that extent, most shows that feature a "brilliant" character will have that character doing "brilliant" things so that people can come along for the ride and feel what it's like to function at that level. Some shows accomplish this better than other; BBT doesn't even try. The shows whole schtick is basically to drop all conceivable shorthands for exceptionally high intelligence, and then reduce the actual quality to nothing more than a series of popsci buzzwords that anyone was halfway paying attention in class during a high school physics class would get. Thus constant allusions to the fact that the characters work in the sciences is ironically as critical to the show as those references remaining as vacuous as possible.
 

Xander

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The strength of that kind of movie really depends on the villain, and it's why I think The Dark Knight has yet to be topped in the superhero genre.
I can't believe you went there...

Which villain? The mindless plot hook with less personality than a car bomb or the overwrought and ultimately dupeable excuse for a seasoned lawyer?

One had no reason, no purpose and no background or life outside of the two dimensional mask and the other spent the whole film being a giant tool because someone was mean to him. The only problem was, that was the guy he teamed up with!

Give me Top Dollar over those two.
 
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family guy makes me want to smash the tv. last time i watched it i said "not funny" after every "joke" but apparently that can be percieved as "annoying" and "unattractive."

Yeah, I'm not particularly a big fan either. The show relies heavily on cutaways for its humor, which I find kind of... lazy, I guess? Gets monotonous & tired pretty fast. A few random bits have struck me as clever on rare occasion, but for the most part, the humor just doesn't do it for me.

I'm not a fan, either. Some of the jokes are funny, but it bothers me that everything is sacrificed for the joke in that show. Character, plot, continuity...all are tossed aside if there's a laugh line to be had. The show doesn't have the discipline of a good comedy.
 

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I was never much of a fan of Seinfeld. It was OK, but to this day I feel pretty "Meh" about it.

I don't understand why people like the vast majority of "Reality" shows. They are almost always nothing even slightly like actual reality. They seem to just be artificially created drama fests that the people watching can emotionally relate to (or hate) and then feel good about saying bad things about the individuals on the show. How is that fun to watch?
 

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I was never much of a fan of Seinfeld. It was OK, but to this day I feel pretty "Meh" about it.

I don't understand why people like the vast majority of "Reality" shows. They are almost always nothing even slightly like actual reality. They seem to just be artificially created drama fests that the people watching can emotionally relate to (or hate) and then feel good about saying bad things about the individuals on the show. How is that fun to watch?


I always kind of enjoyed dissecting the motivations of people on those shows. I don't like shows like dance moms, or what not to wear, or stuff like that, but there some that I really enjoy. Survivor for one, although some may say its scripted, I love seeing the strategy involved. You have the people who vote with their hearts and you have those who vote with their heads. The above might be an oversimplication, but its just interesting to see who goes far and what causes that.
 

C.J.Woolf

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I don't understand why people like the vast majority of "Reality" shows. They are almost always nothing even slightly like actual reality. They seem to just be artificially created drama fests that the people watching can emotionally relate to (or hate) and then feel good about saying bad things about the individuals on the show. How is that fun to watch?

Yeah, I hate that and the "ritual humiliation" subgenres of reality shows. Somebody once told me that she only watched the early rounds of American Idol, when they weeded out the really bad acts. AI starts as ritual humiliation and becomes a talent show.

On the other hand, I was once addicted to Survivor, before it became more-of-the-same except for new gimmicks and stunt casting. I like political games, and that's what Survivor ultimately is. I've seen players win with different strategies, playing to their own personal strengths. But most fascinating are the "tragic" characters, the ones who start out well but expose a fatal flaw and sabotage themselves.
 

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Have never really watched many reality shows, although I was a fan of the first few seasons of The Apprentice, mainly for the same reasons. (And did watch the first season of Survivor.)

It was interesting to me to examine the personalities of the characters and speculate on which were more capable of leveraging their own capabilities, deal with random factors and undermining from other players and then intersecting best with Trump's psychology, in order to achieve victory. But the show became too capricious and Trump a little too predictable.
 

C.J.Woolf

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Another fascinating thing I've seen in Survivor and The Apprentice is the human as pack animal. (I mean like wolves, not mules. ;)) All the players are in an artificial social group and they start out theoretically equal, but they quickly sort themselves into social hierarchies. Sometimes there is a genuine alpha. Other players naturally defer to alphas, and alphas always win. Maybe a skilled Iago type could take an alpha down in a reality show, but I've never seen it happen.

The Apprentice had a true alpha in Randal, a smart, tall, handsome, and confident black man. Everybody liked him too, to the point that nobody minded losing to him. Trump warned the other players more than once that they were handing the game to him on a plate, but I guess they couldn't help themselves.
 

Totenkindly

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The Apprentice had a true alpha in Randal, a smart, tall, handsome, and confident black man. Everybody liked him too, to the point that nobody minded losing to him. Trump warned the other players more than once that they were handing the game to him on a plate, but I guess they couldn't help themselves.

Yeah, I stuck to my guns pushing Rebecca that season, but I knew Randal pretty much had it -- he was clearly Trump's favorite from the start, and others deferred to him and of course he was extremely likeable.

(Rebecca actually fared better by coming in second; she wasn't obligated to work for Trump, but had so much exposure she could pretty much write her own ticket at the time.)

Dynamics are interesting to observe -- to see who gangs up on who, who befriends who, who people won't really touch...

And then there's sheer drama, like the 1-2 episodes I happened to see of the recent Celebrity Apprentice, where I called the top two spots from the remaining eight or so, and got to watch Vivica and Kenya go at each other. Again, interesting... why they both despised each other and essentially washed each other out. They weren't really attacking the two front runners... they were just lower-level pack members tearing each other up. Vivica placed third but was in no position to challenge Leeza or Geraldo after all that mess.
 
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