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Dungeons & Dragons, Call of Cthulhu, Other TTRPGs

Xander

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yes! I think characters have an intrinsic morality -
and when your party is pushed to their moral limits, they may express themselves in unexpected ways... and that can be a major and exciting focus of your plot and relationships going forward.
And if that Revelation is incongruent with how your character has acted in the past...

It is a flaw on the system however. Why no neutral clerics of some God's? Why have alignment "ping"? It cheapens the whole thing.

Alignment should be an example which you create your character around but then should be assigned to you by your peers.
 

Totenkindly

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...well, our GM actually does eventually say, "Uh, hey, I'm pretty sure you're not <that alignment> anymore, write <this> on your sheet instead."

But I agree it's the choices that make the alignment regardless.

It's just one of the flaws in a static mechanics system. I've seen other ways to do it (similar to the Light/Dark side in Star Wars), where it's more dynamic and you move on the scale as you make choices.
 

Xander

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...well, our GM actually does eventually say, "Uh, hey, I'm pretty sure you're not <that alignment> anymore, write <this> on your sheet instead."

But I agree it's the choices that make the alignment regardless.

It's just one of the flaws in a static mechanics system. I've seen other ways to do it (similar to the Light/Dark side in Star Wars), where it's more dynamic and you move on the scale as you make choices.

Don't you find it's sometimes like people knowing their type though? I've list count of the number of chaotic good characters I've seen built on the idea that they can be good guys but don't have to follow the rules so nerr. That's as far as it's taken. An excuse to be a douche when you want to be but otherwise an angel.
 

Totenkindly

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Don't you find it's sometimes like people knowing their type though? I've list count of the number of chaotic good characters I've seen built on the idea that they can be good guys but don't have to follow the rules so nerr. That's as far as it's taken. An excuse to be a douche when you want to be but otherwise an angel.

Sure. Because there are all types of gamers out there. Those who don't roleplay in detail and just use alignment as a stat mechanic won't invest much in it except to make themselves flexible. (Chaotic Neutral is also very popular among those who want to do whatever the hell they want.)

I actually really think through mine and how it specifically will manifest. And I try to make it a consistent psychology. But hey, that's one of my personal interests -- I'm into typology systems and psychology.

For example, I'm developing a lawful good vanara right now (monk), but the vanara are more mischevious and chaotic. So I give her more focus than a vanara might have (she disciplines herself). She also has a good heart and wants to help people when they're hurting or in trouble. her "lawful" is more about "following the natural order" of things, so she perceives an order and then responds to that order, and she might still respect other orders but will challenge exploitative ones. Also, when dealing with evil, she's not the vengeful sort in terms of killing everything; because of the "natural order" she's okay with leaving the natural order dominate the situation. ("You did this; I won't kill you, but I will release you to deal with the ramifications of your behavior and you might not survive that ordeal.")



Another LG character I create might look very different from her. But I typically do not play LG very much.

Or how I was playing Sumiko as NE: "neutral pragmatic," and many of her behaviors "looked" like she was being altruistic but she even would lie to herself about her real self-serving motivations.
 

Totenkindly

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Thought this was interesting.... and a great strategy by Wizards to get 5e out and played:

Be The Dungeon Master In Sword Coast Legends | Digital Trends

A new Dungeons & Dragons game called Sword Coast Legends is coming to Windows later on in 2015. One to four players can take arms as traditional heroes while a fifth player has the option to become the Dungeon Master, controlling the action. This looks to be the closest game yet to replicating the experience of playing live D&D around a table.

Unlike other games that toy with unbalanced multiplayer, like the recently released Evolve or the upcoming Fable Legends, the role of the DM is not strictly adversarial. They can help or hinder the players as they see fit, able to increase the challenge and punish players that are doing to well or help out the heroes when they are struggling and move the story forward. The DM is able to interact in real time, adjusting encounters or taking control of opponents on the fly, and also has access to larger campaign tools allowing them to develop customized scenarios and stories without any scripting knowledge required. Just as in real Dungeons & Dragons, the goal is for everyone to have an enjoyable play experience.

...Rules are derived from the recently-released 5th Edition of Dungeons & Dragons, with publisher Wizards of the Coast on board to make it official. The action takes place in the classic Forgotten Realms setting, which should be familiar to anyone who has played the Baldur’s Gate games or read R. A. Salvatore’s novels about Drizzt Do’Urden. The studio promises iconic locations, familiar faces, and plenty of lore for longtime fans of the game and setting.
 

Xander

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Sure. Because there are all types of gamers out there. Those who don't roleplay in detail and just use alignment as a stat mechanic won't invest much in it except to make themselves flexible. (Chaotic Neutral is also very popular among those who want to do whatever the hell they want.)

I actually really think through mine and how it specifically will manifest. And I try to make it a consistent psychology. But hey, that's one of my personal interests -- I'm into typology systems and psychology.

For example, I'm developing a lawful good vanara right now (monk), but the vanara are more mischevious and chaotic. So I give her more focus than a vanara might have (she disciplines herself). She also has a good heart and wants to help people when they're hurting or in trouble. her "lawful" is more about "following the natural order" of things, so she perceives an order and then responds to that order, and she might still respect other orders but will challenge exploitative ones. Also, when dealing with evil, she's not the vengeful sort in terms of killing everything; because of the "natural order" she's okay with leaving the natural order dominate the situation. ("You did this; I won't kill you, but I will release you to deal with the ramifications of your behavior and you might not survive that ordeal.")



Another LG character I create might look very different from her. But I typically do not play LG very much.

Or how I was playing Sumiko as NE: "neutral pragmatic," and many of her behaviors "looked" like she was being altruistic but she even would lie to herself about her real self-serving motivations.

Must be a typing thing. I got all interested in lawful good and what it meant. With my paladin I chose to highlight that lawful relates to believing that rules are necessary for society and the good section means that I believe that those rules should be set up to benefit the most people possible. Hence I wouldn't just execute someone for being evil or uphold nonsensical laws just because they were laws, I'd act more like a paragon for the ideals of lawful good. This caused most others great headaches. Mind you this was in a group where a former paladin character had been quoted as jot being opposed to "wet work". An odd piece of thinking to my mind.

Still once my INTJ friend had snapped the whole system in two I couldn't help but see the numbers instead of the meaning. Once that happened D&D lost its lustre.
 

Xander

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Thought this was interesting.... and a great strategy by Wizards to get 5e out and played:

I've tried most pc apps and games that lay claim to the title of role-playing. I've yet to find one which meets my standards.

Died in the wool book roleplay snob :D
 

Totenkindly

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Dark Dungeons the Movie

There are no words, there is only laughter.

Oh dear sweet baby cthulhu.

Yeah, I saw a trailer for this last week (?) and thought, "What on earth? is this a parody? Serious? Whut?" We used to laugh at this Chick tract all the time. I also "came of gaming age" in Pennsyltucky, right when all the gaming craziness was going on -- I saw Mazes and Monsters when it actually aired on TV, and I did my 11th grade "persuasive speech" for English on whether RPGs were good or bad. SO I'll watch this movie.

I think Chick thinks it will help get the word out. Well, it kind of will... but not exactly what he thinks.
 

Passacaglia

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Lol, yeah. It's hard to believe that Chick hasn't quietly deleted tracts from his site in belated shame, that there are still nutters out there who buy into it.

I grew up in a very rural and Protestant area where there are no doubt a few families who still buy into this sort of hysterical nonsense -- my high school librarian once told me that she read Harry Potter before she let her children read them, to make sure they were safe. But I didn't discover D&D until well after the Satanic scare, so oh man, I can only imagine playing D&D during that era.

Anyhow, I'd like to see it too but probably won't for a while. So if you decide to order it from Amazon, let us know how true to the tract it is! :)
 

Seymour

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Ah, Chick Tracks! Those bring back the memories. It seems like a good plan to play the movie relatively straight. The unhinged wackiness is campy enough!
 

Totenkindly

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Lol, yeah. It's hard to believe that Chick hasn't quietly deleted tracts from his site in belated shame, that there are still nutters out there who buy into it.

I grew up in a very rural and Protestant area where there are no doubt a few families who still buy into this sort of hysterical nonsense -- my high school librarian once told me that she read Harry Potter before she let her children read them, to make sure they were safe. But I didn't discover D&D until well after the Satanic scare, so oh man, I can only imagine playing D&D during that era.

What was most interesting is that when I gave that speech for school, only 2-3 of my classmates even knew what I was talking about. My area was underexposed to the culture, so the churchy folk on their own didn't even really know what RPGs were at first. But if you went to Bible school camp or to a rally? That's where they hit you. That's how it filtered into the area -- not because it was actually causing problems but because the preachers showed up and told everyone how bad it was.

Much of the "complaining" was done actually by traveling evangelists and tv televangelists who would host these rallies or spend a summer preaching to kids at local camps. When those traveling evangelists did their "youth rallies," well... let's just say I remember attending one rally around 1982-3 in the next town over, and they talked about the evils of rock music and the "Kings in Satan's Service" (the rock band KISS) and played their records backwards for us so that we could hear all the hellish backmasking.

(Note: I heard nothing comprehensible.)
 

Passacaglia

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Much of the "complaining" was done actually by traveling evangelists and tv televangelists who would host these rallies or spend a summer preaching to kids at local camps. When those traveling evangelists did their "youth rallies," well... let's just say I remember attending one rally around 1982-3 in the next town over, and they talked about the evils of rock music and the "Kings in Satan's Service" (the rock band KISS) and played their records backwards for us so that we could hear all the hellish backmasking.

(Note: I heard nothing comprehensible.)
Lol, that's a riot! I had a grade school friend whose devoutly born-again mother was a huge KISS fan. :)

Anyhow, your memory of the youth rallies reminds me of a documentary I recently saw called Jesus Camp. Amidst much other nuttiness, a father gets preachy with some young boys for telling ghost stories at one point. Because ghost stories don't honor God.

I can't imagine what he thinks of demons and dev...I mean, tanar'ri and baatezu. ;)
 

Totenkindly

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Anyhow, your memory of the youth rallies reminds me of a documentary I recently saw called Jesus Camp. Amidst much other nuttiness, a father gets preachy with some young boys for telling ghost stories at one point. Because ghost stories don't honor God.

Yeah, I started watching that on NetFlix and plan to finish it. What's scary is how familiar I am with those types of churches.

I have to say, I was a big fan of Stephen King when I got into high school, and I learned more about goodness and pure-heartedness and honesty in some of his books than I did in the extremism of the church groups I was involved with. All those groups seem to just see the surface of things, what they look like, without delving into what's really going on in terms of essence.

I can't imagine what he thinks of demons and dev...I mean, tanar'ri and baatezu. ;)

Oh, so you aware of the great demon purging of TSR? hahaha



... it's probably a bad time to state that I was now wondering if my current character could benefit from becoming a lich.
 

Totenkindly

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So Sumiko "turned good" but the party is undermining her efforts. When she was going to release the innocent captives in her soulstones, they started saying things like, "Are you sure you want to do that? You might have been able to do something with those." And then they started placing personal bets on how long it would take Sumiko to turn evil again! Like seriously... behind my back... placing small wagers!

Last adventure, any non-perfectly-innocent question SUmiko asked (like "so what does this Staff of Undead Control do again, specifically?"], someone would say, "Uh.... Neutral." [She's currently in Neutral good.] or "well, do we have to take them prisoner? They served demons," and they'd be like, "Neutral Evil" and burst out laughing at me.

... no respect.

So anyway, we met this lich, and he's helping us out because we've both got the same enemies; and after seeing him in action, Sumiko was thinking, "hmmmm." Because maybe it would empower her to resist the dead god who is trying to return to this plane. I asked, "So can liches be good?" to the GM, and everyone's like, "Evil again already, only two sessions." He said they could, if they atoned after they became a lich... but it wouldn't keep the pallies and inquisitors (possibly) from gunning for me on sight. I suspect I'd also have to do some pretty bad stuff in order to make that happen... although, you know, if you wanna make an omelet out of a dead god, you gotta break a few eggs and add a lot of cheese.
 

violett

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My son is closet D&D gamer, he says if any of his peers knew he played it would be the equivalent of social suicide. It's funny watching him take elaborate measures to avoid being seen in the store when purchasing game related material, lol.
 

Passacaglia

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I have to say, I was a big fan of Stephen King when I got into high school, and I learned more about goodness and pure-heartedness and honesty in some of his books than I did in the extremism of the church groups I was involved with. All those groups seem to just see the surface of things, what they look like, without delving into what's really going on in terms of essence.
Wow, Stephen King? The horror writer? Maybe it's time I give him a shot...

Oh, so you aware of the great demon purging of TSR? hahaha
Oh yes, and I originally thought that 'tanar'ri' and 'baatezu' were great little originalities when I started gaming in the 90s, believe it or not. It wasn't until the 21st century that other gamers clued me in on the reasons and history behind the terms. And in the meantime I had read a lot more fantasy lit, and had lost a lot of patience with invented words containing redundant letters and odd apostrophes.

So I'm happy to leave D&D's PC terminology in the past. :)
 

Totenkindly

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Wow, Stephen King? The horror writer? Maybe it's time I give him a shot...

Yeah, please don't judge his books by his movies, most of which are terrible. (And even the few good ones, like Kubrick's "The Shining," are different in some ways from the book.) Probably The Shawshank Redemption (including the ending, which is almost verbatim from the novella) is one of the closest in tone to the original work. When he nails it, he can really spin a good yarn and develop a lot of pathos. But he's not afraid to go to dark places.

(I do think much of his earlier stuff is better than the later stuff; he's kinda hit or miss nowadays.)

My son is closet D&D gamer, he says if any of his peers knew he played it would be the equivalent of social suicide. It's funny watching him take elaborate measures to avoid being seen in the store when purchasing game related material, lol.

That's hilarious. It is like his secret shame.

Looney+Toons+229.jpg
 

Dannik

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My son is closet D&D gamer, he says if any of his peers knew he played it would be the equivalent of social suicide. It's funny watching him take elaborate measures to avoid being seen in the store when purchasing game related material, lol.

I was very much the same way when I was in middle-school.
But, I discovered that the happiness of embracing and playing D&D and Magic:The Gathering openly filled me with a profound satisfaction that transcended (or at least held-at-bay) the fucking shitty hell of school.


I had an extremely hard time at school, but playing D&D at lunch and after school made it tolerable.
We used to play D&D after school for several hours - because some kids always tried to beat us up after school, so we out-waited-them by playing D&D for hours.
I never told my mom, we all lied and said we were in a Math club. It worked because we were incredible at math, or our moms loved us.
 
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