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It seems to be the consensus all over the internet that The Matrix is better than Matrix: Reloaded. But I haven't seen any really good reason why. The Matrix has the advantage of being first, thus it is unique and original. Hell, it was mind-blowing. The Matrix: Reloaded - been there, done that.
But Matrix: Reloaded contained some interesting concepts, not just the Agent Smith "virus" either. It tells us that good requires evil, and vice versa.
I think Matrix Reloaded has a plot and settings that make considerably less sense in light of what we learned in the first film, and are generally more juvenile and hard to believe. From a financial perspective it did not surprise me that a sequel was made to The Matrix, but from a plot perspective there was no good opening for a sequel. Neo was The One, he figured it out, end of story. Instead we get a sequel that involves people doing things that seem totally unnecessary within the matrix.
I think Matrix Reloaded has a plot and settings that make considerably less sense in light of what we learned in the first film, and are generally more juvenile and hard to believe. From a financial perspective it did not surprise me that a sequel was made to The Matrix, but from a plot perspective there was no good opening for a sequel. Neo was The One, he figured it out, end of story. Instead we get a sequel that involves people doing things that seem totally unnecessary within the matrix.
It seems to be the consensus all over the internet that The Matrix is better than Matrix: Reloaded. But I haven't seen any really good reason why. The Matrix has the advantage of being first, thus it is unique and original. Hell, it was mind-blowing. The Matrix: Reloaded - been there, done that.
But Matrix: Reloaded contained some interesting concepts, not just the Agent Smith "virus" either. It tells us that good requires evil, and vice versa.
I think it's a mistake for people to compare it to The Matrix movie, which is a different kind of picture.
The Matrix trilogy actually is in three pieces: Birth, Prime of Life, Decline/Death. The first movie is Neo being born, coming to awareness. Thus he is learning the nature of the Matrix and determining his general role in it.
Reloaded is Neo in the prime of his life, the peak of his strength. It is a very "active" movie. It is very linear, too, and plot-driven. It probably has the most action (in the Neo line) of all three movies and a strong through-line. Here he is grappling directly with his fate -- how to specifically fulfill his destiny.
(I think the best "fight" where Neo is at the height of his power is the Foyer Fight, with the Merovingian's cronies. He "shows some skill" and pretty effortlessly takes down an entire group of practiced fighters in a well-choreographed sequence.)
Reloaded is where we see him tasting the hint of decline and death that eventually he must embrace in Revolutions. He tastes it (and he has his first fight that he essentially loses AKA doesn't win -- i.e., against the Smiths), but he is still powerful enough to hold defeat/death off (bringing Trinity back, preserving love for just one more day, etc.)
In its day, the highway chase was the best chase scene out there. I think it's still worth watching, even if there's some obvious computer sim at times (like with the one jumping agent). I love how it keeps turning the screws tighter, even when you think it's gone as tight as possible.
I think some people thought the end of Reloaded was dry and stilted. Maybe they're right. I just know I loved it. The entire movie is this very energetic, flowing action sequence and focus on plot. Then, suddenly, right when you think Neo has triumphed... everything STOPs. The Architect's speech is MEANT to be a slap in the face and throw up a huge roadblock, figuratively AND literally. It's meant to be confusing; the Architect is meant to seem overly complicated and alien to human thought process. But it's one of the greatest "deconstructionist" scenes in cinema; Vader's, "Luke I am your father" seems half-assed in comparison.
Neo thought he was rebelling against the system, and in the end he doing exactly what he was designed to do the entire time. He is just one more cog (albeit a more important one) in the huge complex machine.
Anyway, there is a lot of philosophical exposition going on, even during the Merovingian sequence, and then the Persephone sequence following. M talks about the use of power, how knowledge brings power, and how Neo is just busting around doing stuff without any reason why, and thus he has no power. And M is right, Neo has no real power to do anything until the end of the movie, when he finds out his role. Ironically, that marks the decline of his power. The more he can make choices that are educated, the more ineffectual his power seems to become (starting in the last movie).
The conversation with Persephone is like the deal with the devil, and is the first "whiff of death" that Neo and Trinity experience; she makes them confront their own inevitable mortality. That scene was very well-directed.
Reloaded also has the last appearance of the version of the Oracle that I loved so much. It's sad that she died, and sad that she could not reprise her role in the last film, although they tried to incorporate it into the story.
EDIT: I think if the Wachowskis had FINISHED well, they'd have gotten less crap from people. It's unfortunate that Revolutions kind of fumbled the ball. Much of the dialogue felt contrived and neatly packaged, the very ending of the film felt tacked on, some of the scenes seemed redundant. The theme of "death" resonated strongly with me -- if you watch Neo, he undertakes the traditional hero's journey
where he declines toward his ending, slowly being stripped of everything that made him him (his purpose, his power, his friends, his sight, his love). One moment, he's God, and then everything slowly goes to shit and he's nothing, he can't even really take care of himself. At the very end, he does the one thing left to him -- fight Smith and save the Matrix -- and he ...loses. He has NOTHING left. And that's when he realizes what his role is and what he must do. Smith exists to balance the equation. By letting Smith absorb/eradicate him, the equation becomes imbalanced and thus Smith is removed in the process of rebalancing, from the philosophical perspective or by the Deus Ex Machina "Nortin'izing" him via the direct Neo link. This is the traditional "sacrifice" role that the hero often performs in Western culture, and the sacrifice must always be purified and powerless and must choose to die for the sake of everyone else.
It's just too bad they kind of fumbled the presentation of these heady ideas. Some of the scenes were good, but the overall movie was kinda poorly handled...
I really liked all those things about Reloaded. I just wish Revolutions had followed up on it more. The plot of revolutions was so simply I was able to deduce it from the trailer. They introduced really interesting ideas in reloaded, and then didn't do anything with them in the conclusion. By the end of the trilogy, nothing has really changed from the way it was in the beginning. Maybe this was deliberate because it was supposed to represent the cycle of rebirth in Buddhism and Hinduism, but it doesn't really make for an interesting story.
The Matrix series is more philosophical than average movie-goers will give it credit for. But they don't want to be enlightened, only entertained. Neo's eventual demise was not entertaining, and it wasn't meant to be. Instead, it is aesthetically pleasing. Death is a natural part of life; even heroes have to die although they intend to die fighting for a cause if they have to.
In comparison, a less tasteful movie is Kill Bill Vols. 1 and 2. This is a bloody tale of revenge. The blood in these movies is so highly exaggerated that it becomes commonplace, meaningless. Notice, however, that in Matrix: Reloaded, any sign of blood has at least symbolic meaning. When Neo's hand is cut by a sword, the blood symbolizes the fact that he is still human.
I really liked all those things about Reloaded. I just wish Revolutions had followed up on it more. The plot of revolutions was so simply I was able to deduce it from the trailer. They introduced really interesting ideas in reloaded, and then didn't do anything with them in the conclusion. By the end of the trilogy, nothing has really changed from the way it was in the beginning. Maybe this was deliberate because it was supposed to represent the cycle of rebirth in Buddhism and Hinduism, but it doesn't really make for an interesting story.
Yeah, I felt like a lot of their "bang for the buck" went into the war at Zion with their stupid "cool" human/robot gunner things. And the movie especially in the latter half ended up being so formulaic I almost could imagine scrolling segues like George Lucas', and the panel layout in the comic book adaptation: "Oh, that little quip would be in the last panel of the page before the cut scene." Urrrrggg....
The story actually did continue, and a bit different than before, in the Matrix Online MMO... and the whole premise was there was an uneasy truce between the humans and the machine, so things weren't ALL the same. As far as we know. *snicker*
In comparison, a less tasteful movie is Kill Bill Vols. 1 and 2. This is a bloody tale of revenge. The blood in these movies is so highly exaggerated that it becomes commonplace, meaningless. Notice, however, that in Matrix: Reloaded, any sign of blood has at least symbolic meaning. When Neo's hand is cut by a sword, the blood symbolizes the fact that he is still human.
Again, apples and oranges. Kill Bills are very different movies (and among some of my favorites... but certainly not for the philosophy discussions). I mean, Tarantino specifically MADE the gore so over the top that the audience would adjust to it -- and also it DID have a meaning... that revenge results in an endlessly bloody mess for everyone. In fact, in the discussions I've heard of the potential Kill Bill 3, this would be the theme: It's years later, and Nikki (the daughter of one of the gang members, where Kiddo kills her right in front of the girl) comes back to find her... a situation predicted by the Bride at the end of that scene. ("When you grow up, if you still feel raw about things, come find me...")
You can't go around killing people, even if you feel it's "even steven," and not trigger more bloodshed. But it's very easy in the midst of the carnage to overlook all the blood, if you're too used to it.
Again, not heady philosophy, but I think the comparison isn't really that great. Blood is tied thematically to Kill Bill, and it's only marginally describing the state of a character in Reloaded.
Again, apples and oranges. Kill Bills are very different movies (and among some of my favorites... but certainly not for the philosophy discussions). I mean, Tarantino specifically MADE the gore so over the top that the audience would adjust to it -- and also it DID have a meaning... that revenge results in an endlessly bloody mess for everyone. In fact, in the discussions I've heard of the potential Kill Bill 3, this would be the theme: It's years later, and Nikki (the daughter of one of the gang members, where Kiddo kills her right in front of the girl) comes back to find her... a situation predicted by the Bride at the end of that scene. ("When you grow up, if you still feel raw about things, come find me...")
You can't go around killing people, even if you feel it's "even steven," and not trigger more bloodshed. But it's very easy in the midst of the carnage to overlook all the blood, if you're too used to it.
Again, not heady philosophy, but I think the comparison isn't really that great. Blood is tied thematically to Kill Bill, and it's only marginally describing the state of a character in Reloaded.
I'm not sure what you are saying -- that this is an inconsistency in the third movie, since although they used an EMP to take out the squids, the gunners were basically a waste of time and they shouldn't have bothered
Is the bushmaster someone important? This looks like some guy's post on a web forum somewhere, no more important than the posts here... although it would be nice if someone quoted me on another board and said, "Well, JENNIFER liked the Matrix Reloaded, so....!!"
I disagree with him about the Merovingian. I think he's taking a few off-the-cuff phrases as some kind of fact. The comments he quoted all are pretty general. Also, I did not think the One survived the process; they would take the code he carried and use it to jumpstart Zion. He was always the anomaly that broke down the system, so this would mean the One probably gets "wiped" just as Neo wipes at the end of this trilogy. His rebel code would be used to seed the anomaly in the next Matrix version.
From my understanding, The Merovingian was some kind of control program -- he was supposed to regulate behavior in people who didn't break out of the system. And this is what he does now -- he's kind of an "overseer" program that commands other software. He's likely from a version of the matrix before free will was introduced. He is essentially an exile who did not leave the system when his purpose was over, and now he harbors OTHER Exiles (including some of his henchmen) who no longer have a purpose.
Note his worldview -- there is no such thing as choice, everything is cause->effect. That's how he was programmed. that's how he sees the world.
Also note that there was no real need for a "One" until free will was introduced -- the One is the coalescence of the chaos in the system instigated by free will. Before free will, the One would not exist.
I would just like to know where Persephone came from, and where she spends the other six months of the year.
EDIT:
Here is the backstory that was explained in The Matrix Online.
The Merovingian is a strong proponent that causality is the true nature of existence within the Matrix, not choice. As a result, his ideology directly conflicts with the efforts of the Oracle. In fact, the Merovingian's behavior strongly suggests that he despised the Oracle so much as to want her termination, suggesting that Trinity can bring him the "eyes of the Oracle" as ransom for Neo's release from Mobil Avenue. He has been known to momentarily abandon his hatred if it means his survival, as evidenced by the fact that when he decided to just give the Zion operatives Neo even without the eyes of the Oracle after he and his men were held by gunpoint by Trinity.
A connection to the Merovingian to the second failed Matrix may exist. The Merovingian surrounded himself with henchmen with remarkable abilities that other programs do not show. The Oracle, Persephone, and the Architect alluded to these programs in various conversations involving Neo. These programs inhabited the ill-fated second Matrix in an effort by the Architect to establish a primitive level of choice through frightening the human populace. When the second Matrix failed, the Merovingian kept many of these old programs for his own devices.
It has been confirmed that the Merovingian's prior purpose to exile was the Operating System (like Microsoft Windows or Mac OS X) for an earlier version of the Matrix, the second of the two Matrix betas. Thus the Merovingian's original role was a leadership position, coordinating activity and information in the Matrix beta. He would later make good use of these skills in exile as a power broker and trafficker of information. It also explains why the Merovingian is so skilled at rewriting Matrix code to create new custom objects.[1]
Persephone has said that the Merovingian used to be "like Neo" when she spoke of initially falling in love with him. As the Merovingian's power lies more in subtle rather than gross manipulation of information, he may not be a previous One. Most assume Persephone is saying that the Merovingian was not always a cynical hedonist, but was once driven and purposeful.
I have no idea what you meant by it, so it was a shot in the dark. The blood I pointed out was only relevant as a symbol of Neo's humanness, not to Neo's character arc or to the plot. But like I said, I don't know what you were saying there.
Didn't the Merovingian state that the blood proves Neo is still human? And didn't this statement immediately give more confidence to the baddies? When Neo bleeds, it signifies something important about Neo; in Kill Bill, blood has no meaning, it only serves to make the movie more graphic.
I'm not sure what you are saying -- that this is an inconsistency in the third movie, since although they used an EMP to take out the squids, the gunners were basically a waste of time and they shouldn't have bothered
Is the bushmaster someone important? This looks like some guy's post on a web forum somewhere, no more important than the posts here... although it would be nice if someone quoted me on another board and said, "Well, JENNIFER liked the Matrix Reloaded, so....!!"
I disagree with him about the Merovingian. I think he's taking a few off-the-cuff phrases as some kind of fact. The comments he quoted all are pretty general. Also, I did not think the One survived the process; they would take the code he carried and use it to jumpstart Zion. He was always the anomaly that broke down the system, so this would mean the One probably gets "wiped" just as Neo wipes at the end of this trilogy. His rebel code would be used to seed the anomaly in the next Matrix version.
From my understanding, The Merovingian was some kind of control program -- he was supposed to regulate behavior in people who didn't break out of the system. And this is what he does now -- he's kind of an "overseer" program that commands other software. He's likely from a version of the matrix before free will was introduced. He is essentially an exile who did not leave the system when his purpose was over, and now he harbors OTHER Exiles (including some of his henchmen) who no longer have a purpose.
Note his worldview -- there is no such thing as choice, everything is cause->effect. That's how he was programmed. that's how he sees the world.
Also note that there was no real need for a "One" until free will was introduced -- the One is the coalescence of the chaos in the system instigated by free will. Before free will, the One would not exist.
I would just like to know where Persephone came from, and where she spends the other six months of the year.
EDIT:
Here is the backstory that was explained in The Matrix Online.
The Merovingian is a strong proponent that causality is the true nature of existence within the Matrix, not choice. As a result, his ideology directly conflicts with the efforts of the Oracle. In fact, the Merovingian's behavior strongly suggests that he despised the Oracle so much as to want her termination, suggesting that Trinity can bring him the "eyes of the Oracle" as ransom for Neo's release from Mobil Avenue. He has been known to momentarily abandon his hatred if it means his survival, as evidenced by the fact that when he decided to just give the Zion operatives Neo even without the eyes of the Oracle after he and his men were held by gunpoint by Trinity.
A connection to the Merovingian to the second failed Matrix may exist. The Merovingian surrounded himself with henchmen with remarkable abilities that other programs do not show. The Oracle, Persephone, and the Architect alluded to these programs in various conversations involving Neo. These programs inhabited the ill-fated second Matrix in an effort by the Architect to establish a primitive level of choice through frightening the human populace. When the second Matrix failed, the Merovingian kept many of these old programs for his own devices.
It has been confirmed that the Merovingian's prior purpose to exile was the Operating System (like Microsoft Windows or Mac OS X) for an earlier version of the Matrix, the second of the two Matrix betas. Thus the Merovingian's original role was a leadership position, coordinating activity and information in the Matrix beta. He would later make good use of these skills in exile as a power broker and trafficker of information. It also explains why the Merovingian is so skilled at rewriting Matrix code to create new custom objects.[1]
Persephone has said that the Merovingian used to be "like Neo" when she spoke of initially falling in love with him. As the Merovingian's power lies more in subtle rather than gross manipulation of information, he may not be a previous One. Most assume Persephone is saying that the Merovingian was not always a cynical hedonist, but was once driven and purposeful.
I have no idea what you meant by it, so it was a shot in the dark. The blood I pointed out was only relevant as a symbol of Neo's humanness, not to Neo's character arc or to the plot. But like I said, I don't know what you were saying there.
Didn't the Merovingian state that the blood proves Neo is still human? And didn't this statement immediately give more confidence to the baddies? When Neo bleeds, it signifies something important about Neo; in Kill Bill, blood has no meaning, it only serves to make the movie more graphic.
Reloaded uses blood in a specific symbol regarding Neo in that scene.
Kill Bill uses blood thematically to make a broad conclusion about revenge, that will likely be part of the payoff for KB3 if there is one. It wasn't done "just to make it more graphic" ... although I think that Tarantino enjoyed splashing blood about as much as a young boy enjoys stomping through mud.
Reloaded uses blood in a specific symbol regarding Neo in that scene.
Kill Bill uses blood thematically to make a broad conclusion about revenge, that will likely be part of the payoff for KB3 if there is one. It wasn't done "just to make it more graphic" ... although I think that Tarantino enjoyed splashing blood about as much as a young boy enjoys stomping through mud.
What is Tarantino's broad conclusion about revenge? To be seen in KB3 which may never happen? Considering what I've witnessed in other movies of his, blood is just blood - and sometimes it includes brains.
What is Tarantino's broad conclusion about revenge? To be seen in KB3 which may never happen? Considering what I've witnessed in other movies of his, blood is just blood - and sometimes it includes brains.
It seems to be the consensus all over the internet that The Matrix is better than Matrix: Reloaded. But I haven't seen any really good reason why. The Matrix has the advantage of being first, thus it is unique and original. Hell, it was mind-blowing. The Matrix: Reloaded - been there, done that.
But Matrix: Reloaded contained some interesting concepts, not just the Agent Smith "virus" either. It tells us that good requires evil, and vice versa.
