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Stereotypes and memes and racism, oh my! [split thread]

Mal12345

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I liked Independence Day when it first came out...although I was 12 at the time. I didn't know any better. It was on tv the other day. He pronounces Earth correctly.

The fact that people think they have to disprove the meme I posted only makes it funnier.
 

Thalassa

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The fact that people think they have to disprove the meme I posted only makes it funnier.

Why? Because it's racist or classist?

It's mocking a working class or poor African American accent, mostly from the South.

If Will Smith pronounces it correctly in the film then....
 

Mal12345

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Why? Because it's racist or classist?

It's mocking a working class or poor African American accent, mostly from the South.

If Will Smith pronounces it correctly in the film then....

No, it's mimicking what it would sound like if Smith tried to say "Welcome to Earth!" with a cigar in his mouth.
 

Thalassa

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No, it's mimicking what it would sound like if Smith tried to say "Welcome to Earth" with a cigar in his mouth.

Well I'm telling you that it's racist. "Mouf" "birfday" "earf" etc.

It's intended to be racist and classist.

I'm from the South and I'm very familiar with the deep Southern accent (which is, for whatever reason, in one particular manifestation presented as how black people talk, even if they're from Detroit or Watts) ...and this using an f instead of a th is kind of like how people think of other Southerners dropping their g's and saying "they-air" instead of "there."

I think maybe you think it's funny because of the cigar, but I'm pretty sure it's racial "humor."
 

Mal12345

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Well I'm telling you that it's racist. "Mouf" "birfday" "earf" etc.

It's intended to be racist and classist.

I'm from the South and I'm very familiar with the deep Southern accent (which is, for whatever reason, in one particular manifestation presented as how black people talk, even if they're from Detroit or Watts) ...and this using an f instead of a th is kind of like how people think of other Southerners dropping their g's and saying "they-air" instead of "there."

I think maybe you think it's funny because of the cigar, but I'm pretty sure it's racial "humor."

I never thought of it that way until you mentioned it. You must be a racist.
 

Thalassa

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I never thought of it that way until you mentioned it. You must be a racist.

No actually I'm just better educated on this particular topic of what would hurt or offend other people. You're simply acting in uninformed ignorance.

I'm trying to be helpful, and you're taking it personally, though you insist you didn't mean it that way.

I've been a Southerner my entire life (and always will be one, no matter where I live), one who majored in English literature and took voice lessons, who can convincingly communicate with the American Standard accent though my mother talks like Loretta Lynn.

Just because I'm informed about what it looks like to mock other people for racial, cultural, or class reasons doesn't mean I'm racist. I never said you were racist, I said the meme is racist.
 

Mal12345

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No actually I'm just better educated on this particular topic of what would hurt or offend other people. You're simply acting in uninformed ignorance.

I'm trying to be helpful, and you're taking it personally, though you insist you didn't mean it that way.

I've been a Southerner my entire life (and always will be one, no matter where I live), one who majored in English literature and took voice lessons, who can convincingly communicate with the American Standard accent though my mother talks like Loretta Lynn.

Just because I'm informed about what it looks like to mock other people for racial, cultural, or class reasons doesn't mean I'm racist. I never said you were racist, I said the meme is racist.

It's called guilt by association. You see "Earf" as racist/classist mockery because you associate it with your Southern background. Therefore I see you as racist/classist by association. I'm not intending anything personal, I'm just revealing your flawed logic.
 

Thalassa

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It's called guilt by association. You see "Earf" as racist/classist mockery because you associate it with your Southern background. Therefore I see you as racist/classist by association. I'm not intending anything personal, I'm just revealing your flawed logic.

Okay I'm sorry I think you're just making a statement of complete idiocy. I'm not guilty of anything, you can google it really fast, and take some responsibility for the fact that you posted a racist meme that you innocently interpreted incorrectly.

Your response is over the top, really, because I'm simply informing you of something, not calling you a racist, but you're being very nasty to me.

I've long suspected that you aren't really an INTP. This is why I had you on ignore before. You're behaving completely irrationally to me informing you of something you could easily see on your own.
 
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Well I'm telling you that it's racist. "Mouf" "birfday" "earf" etc.

It's your opinion that this meme is racist, which you're entitled to. But it's not a closed case.

I see it as a joke about the formalism of what we usually see in print versus the more casual way people actually speak. I don't see how it can be racist when people actually pronounce the word phonetically like "Earf" all the time. It's like saying it's racist to describe someone as "black" as opposed to using "black" as a pejorative.

I recall seeing a comedy skit where a crime was committed and a police officer was asking a witness to describe the culprit. The (white) witness bent over backwards to use any other description for the (black) culprit other than "black", presumably because he didn't want to be seen as racist. Calling this meme racist is the sort of thing that provokes people like the witness in that skit to think in that ridiculous way.
 

Thalassa

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You can tell him it's racist all you want, it doesn't make it true. It's your opinion, which you're entitled to. But it's not a closed case.

I see it as a joke about the formalism of what we usually see in print versus the more casual way people actually speak. I don't see how it can be racist when people actually pronounce the word phonetically like "Earf" all the time. It's like saying it's racist to describe someone as "black" as opposed to using "black" as a pejorative.

I recall seeing a comedy skit where a crime was committed and a police officer was asking a witness to describe the culprit. The (white) witness bent over backwards to use any other description for the (black) culprit other than "black", presumably because he didn't want to be seen as racist. Calling this meme racist is the sort of thing that provokes people like the witness in that skit to think in that ridiculous way.

The social implication is that ALL black people, even an educated middle-class actor like Will Smith, say f instead of th.

I rarely, if ever, see anyone imply that ALL white people, even educated middle-class actors, say "y'all quit bangin that screen door naowa."

That's my point.

If either one of you ever watched television or listened to hip hop you'd know what I'm talking about, it's not like I ONLY know it because I'm from the South, speech patterns are just something I have a heightened awareness of in terms of race and class because of being a Southerner who literally worked to learn to speak American Standard English.

It is racist, whether or not HE intended it that way.
 

Mal12345

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It's your opinion that this meme is racist, which you're entitled to. But it's not a closed case.

Marmie sees it as racist now although she didn't say anything when I used a variation on that meme as my avatar for a long time. It's not as much fun to troll avatars.
 

Thalassa

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Marmie sees it as racist now although she didn't say anything when I used a variation on that meme as my avatar for a long time. It's not as much fun to troll avatars.

I never noticed your avatar, I don't pay a lot of attention to you. You only brought this to my attention because someone told you that Will Smith actually didn't say that in the movie, and you insisted it was still hilarious.

And I asked you why, because it's racist or classist?

Because the f instead of th is a common stereotypical speech pattern of African Americans from the "ghetto."
 

Mal12345

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The social implication is that ALL black people, even an educated middle-class actor like Will Smith, say f instead of th.

I rarely, if ever, see anyone imply that ALL white people, even educated middle-class actors, say "y'all quit bangin that screen door naowa."

That's my point.

The meme isn't implying that all black people speak that way. It's obviously stating that if Smith had said that line with a cigar in his mouth, it would have come out as Welcome to Earf.

Oh, and by the way, you're no Johnnie Cochran and you have no business defending any races or classes.

That being said:

oie_1620383910a2lE3.jpg
 

LEGERdeMAIN

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I used to think all white women were quirky and had lots of interesting things to say and black women were all full'o'sass, based on dozens of romantic comedies I've watched over the years. When did you realize you were a racist?
 

Thalassa

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The meme isn't implying that all black people speak that way. It's obviously stating that if Smith had said that line with a cigar in his mouth, it would have come out as Welcome to Earf.

Oh, and by the way, you're no Johnnie Cochran and you have no business defending any races or classes.

That being said:

View attachment 9090

I can't believe how oblivious you people are.

I didn't make this up.

The Thing You Remember

Handsome air-and-eventually-space-pilot Will Smith, after being chased by an alien spacecraft, manages to force the craft into a crash landing. When the spaceship opens up and a spooky alien emerges, Smith fearlessly punches it in the face and, like the unflappable badass he always plays, casually drops a classic movie one-liner that can only be described as Willsmithian: "Welcome to Earf." Audiences cheer, aliens tremble and Earf continues to spin.

But Actually ...

He says "Earth," you racist.


Read more: http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-famou...ryone-remembers-incorrectly_p2/#ixzz2NjaopJEv
 

Mal12345

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I can't believe how oblivious you people are.

I didn't make this up.

The Thing You Remember

Handsome air-and-eventually-space-pilot Will Smith, after being chased by an alien spacecraft, manages to force the craft into a crash landing. When the spaceship opens up and a spooky alien emerges, Smith fearlessly punches it in the face and, like the unflappable badass he always plays, casually drops a classic movie one-liner that can only be described as Willsmithian: "Welcome to Earf." Audiences cheer, aliens tremble and Earf continues to spin.

But Actually ...

He says "Earth," you racist.


Go start your own thread on the topic, and keep as far away from mine as possible.
 

Mal12345

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I used to think all white women were quirky and had lots of interesting things to say and black women were all full'o'sass, based on dozens of romantic comedies I've watched over the years. When did you realize you were a racist?

Who are you asking?
 
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If either one of you ever watched television or listened to hip hop you'd know what I'm talking about, it's not like I ONLY know it because I'm from the South

Actually, as someone who makes his living creating popular culture, I have a passing familiarity with both. And no, you don't only know it because you're from the South...you only think it because you're from the South. In other words, no, you are not the only one to possess this knowledge; but you're the only one in this thread to think about it in that way. That doesn't make other ways of thinking about it invalid.

I can't believe how oblivious you people are.

I didn't make this up.

No, you didn't make this up. Nobody ever said you were pulling it out of your ass. But you and your corroborating evidence can both be wrong.
 
E

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I don't think cultures should be free from criticism, especially under the guise of "racism" which is often a convenient scapegoat to defend particular behaviors that are not racially exclusive. I don't even see anything wrong with mocking accents/dialects. I mean, I wouldn't do it to someone's face if I thought it would offend them, but I don't think it is racist. Reminds me of this superbowl commercial that garnered a lot of criticism for being racist, which is absurd. If it was a black guy talking in a southern redneck accent, I wouldn't think it is racist. However, I understand how the meme could be interpreted as racist since Will Smith pronounced the word correctly; so what exactly was the person who created it suggesting? Maybe they ignorantly thought he mispronounced it. If he actually said "Erf" in the movie, then I wouldn't have a problem with the meme.

A lot of movies would fall under this for me... when you get older your taste changes & refines of course.

I'm still easy to entertain, but hard to reach. Once the initial entertainment rubs off, then I tend to see little value in a lot of movies. But I rarely go from loving to hating now.

Oh I liked the Austin Powers movies & the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie, although I didn't love them & probably only saw them twice each or so. Now I'd rather never see them again.

Oh, I liked Moulin Rouge, but I couldn't get through it now. It's a mess.

POTC had the opposite effect on me. I couldn't sit through the entire movie the first few times I tried, but ultimately Jack Sparrow's charm converted me. Now, I own all four. I wouldn't say they are "great" movies, by any means, but I've grown to like them. :)
 
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