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The Dark Knight Rises

Totenkindly

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Sorry, I was looking for that 70's back issue and ran across this and laughed (read the bottom title blurb, Mac! You never told us your mom knew Batman or that you'd never have been born without his intervention!)

2703.jpg



BTW, for those who didn't know of R'as Al Ghul until Batman Begins came out, here's one of his earlier appearances (1972)... and it's a cool Neil Adams (I think, from the art!) cover...

2706.jpg
 
G

Ginkgo

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What's reallly funny to me is that, despite all of my years within Christianity, I never once thought of Batman being equated to Jesus during the movie. I've seen an occasional reviewer make that analogy too, but to me I guess one could compare anything to Jesus. I saw more analogy of it in The Matrix, far more of it (and overtly), than here. I guess if one generalizes the Jesus story and the movie narrative enough, any connection can be made... which to me is one reason why Christianity has endured so long -- the very basic story of Jesus can be layered into most life narratives in some way.

[MENTION=8485]tinker683[/MENTION]:

Maybe I just like Anne Hathaway tempting with a stolen apple. I can have dreams too, can't I? :cry:
 

Totenkindly

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Maybe I just like Anne Hathaway tempting with a stolen apple. I can have dreams too, can't I? :cry:

Oh snap -- when you said "stolen apple" my mind automatically leaped back to "What Lies Beneath," which had a possessed Michelle Pfieffer offering her husband harrison Ford an apple... and of course she played the last iteration of catwoman in a Batman movie. Wheeee!!!!
 

MacGuffin

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TDKR just doesn't seem to possess this type of internal consistency. It wants to portray itself as some kind of complex movie as the last, but it really never engages the questions. For some reason, the acting Commissioner is a glorified weeniehead, then changes his mind without good reason to march with the police. Bane is Bane. Batman comes out of seclusion for some reason that we don't grasp; but then again, his motivations for going into seclusion are weak as well. Did anyone ever doubt what the resolution with "catwoman" would be? Not really. Basically, the forces of order were "good" at heart, and the forces of darkness were "bad" at heart. Even the surprise turncoat happens without us really getting any signals, it was just like, "oh, look, I guess they're evil after all," so it felt rather like a trick than something legitimate we could track (as in The Prestige, where all the clues were actually scattered through the movie but we were just consistently misdirected).

I think that kind of thing can actually work -- it works in the Superman movies, it works in Star Wars -- but not in a movie that pretends to be something darker and more complex about the human heart. It was a movie rich in potential that didn't seem to follow its inherent essence, based on the tone, the marketing, the title, the predecessors, and the threads within it. I think it was still better than the bulk of superhero movies that have ever come out, but it was a disappointment in what it could have explored and just... hinted at the questions and didn't go there, it was far more conventional rather than thoughtful like the earlier movies. I'm also tired of having to excuse a movie "just because it's a superhero" movie; you know a movie is good when it doesn't matter what kind of movie it is, you can just say, "hey, that was a good movie!"

This is the most upsetting factor: I didn't derive any meaning from The Dark Knight Rises.
Nolan didn't have anything profound to "say" with this one. In fact, it feels as if it was made simply out of necessity.

In both movies, it was foreshadowed that Batman would evolve into The Dark Knight we know and love.
Out the window. He isn't even in this movie. He mopes around and occasionally takes his flying tank out for a stroll.

Researching the storylines, I figured he would use Prey and Dark Victory as reference points.
Both fit perfectly within the world Nolan has crafted.

A plot centric upon a masked dictator with his finger on a trigger is perfunctory and came completely out of left field.
It was incredibly sloppy writing.

If I may be so bold, I think you two missed the point of the film because you were off looking for something beyond what was on the screen. The Dark Knight Rises, for all it's plot twists is not a complex film at all. It is a quite simple theme.

It is about hope.

It's there in the title, and in the metaphoric last shot of the film.
 

Poindexter Arachnid

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If I may be so bold, I think you two missed the point of the film because you were off looking for something beyond what was on the screen. The Dark Knight Rises, for all it's plot twists is not a complex film at all. It is a quite simple theme.

It is about hope.

It's there in the title, and in the metaphoric last shot of the film.

Oh, no you did'ent!

But really. You're right. It wasn't complex and that was the problem.
It was a shameless betrayal of the characters and universe of Batman.

Sorry. Grew up on the stuff. Been a lifelong fan.
This effort didn't cut the mustard.
 
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Ginkgo

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Oh snap -- when you said "stolen apple" my mind automatically leaped back to "What Lies Beneath," which had a possessed Michelle Pfieffer offering her husband harrison Ford an apple... and of course she played the last iteration of catwoman in a Batman movie. Wheeee!!!!

conspiracy.jpg
 

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Oh, no you did'ent!

But really. You're right. It wasn't complex and that was the problem.
It was a shameless betrayal of the characters and universe of Batman.

Sorry. Grew up on the stuff. Been a lifelong fan.
This effort didn't cut the mustard.

Again, I think this is a struggle between the vision of the viewer and the vision of the artist. If you want to see a green picture and the picture is purple, you won't like it.

I like Frank Miller's Dark Knight as well, but I don't think Nolan is interested in that take on the character, he wants his own version.

For what it is, I think it is very, very good, bordering on great.
 

Words of Ivory

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I went to see this on the opening day, but hearing about the deaths of the people in Colorado makes me sad, and it makes me feel somewhat guilty for enjoying it.

The movie was solid, with a few nagging issues. There's little more I can add beyond the great debate that Jennifer and Co. already have going.
 

Poindexter Arachnid

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Again, I think this is a struggle between the vision of the viewer and the vision of the artist. If you want to see a green picture and the picture is purple, you won't like it.

I like Frank Miller's Dark Knight as well, but I don't think Nolan is interested in that take on the character, he wants his own version.

For what it is, I think it is very, very good, bordering on great.

It is a good summer movie with a lot of rousing moments.
Visually and aurally, TDKR decimates anything else this year, hands down.

But it stank of the third movie curse.
And the cards were in place to give us the greatest Batman story of all time.

We didn't get it.
 

Totenkindly

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If I may be so bold, I think you two missed the point of the film because you were off looking for something beyond what was on the screen. The Dark Knight Rises, for all it's plot twists is not a complex film at all. It is a quite simple theme.

It is about hope.

It's there in the title, and in the metaphoric last shot of the film.

Why is this complicated for you to understand? I didn't miss that. But even aware of it, I just ended up not enjoying the movie because it's not what interests me (remember in my first comments when I said I felt nothing throughout the movie, it was just.... there?) and I'm explaining why. Kind of like when Christians tell me why I should like a Kirk Cameron movie ("but it's about hope, it's right there in the title!") but the way it's presented just doesn't do anything for me.

If you enjoyed the movie for other reasons, then that is good for you, and a positive thing.

But it's okay, I just watched Donnie Darko tonight again, and feel much better now.


OMG, that reminds me of this movie called Signs...

.... ugh, that was an awful movie. ("OMG THE ALIENZ R AFRAYD OF WATER!!")

The movie was solid, with a few nagging issues. There's little more I can add beyond the great debate that Jennifer and Co. already have going.

I think I am retiring, I have given my life in the debate of this movie; but I bequeath upon you the legacy of continuing the fight.
 

Totenkindly

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Hmm... now I'm reminded of this OTHER movie....!

But I probably shouldn't touch that one. (Flying monkeys -- tish tosh!!!)



But I can tie it together. What did you guys think of the trailer for Oz The Great and Powerful?
 
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Again, I think this is a struggle between the vision of the viewer and the vision of the artist. If you want to see a green picture and the picture is purple, you won't like it.

I like Frank Miller's Dark Knight as well, but I don't think Nolan is interested in that take on the character, he wants his own version.

For what it is, I think it is very, very good, bordering on great.

Agreed 100%. I thought this movie was magnificent and easily the best of the three. While TDK is also very good, the only explanation I can think of for the slobbering of Heath Ledger's wildly overpraised performance is his untimely death. I think that Nolan made Batman relevant with a storyline for this movie that served both as a satisfying conclusion to the trilogy and an incisive commentary about the political and economic climate of our country today. As ridiculous as the events of the movie seem on paper, they felt chillingly plausible. I also thought the emotion of the relationships between Wayne and Alfred and Wayne and Gordon was effective and strong. I have quibbles, but they're small. I thought Matthew Modine's character and performance were weak, and I had trouble understanding Bane's dialogue even though I saw the movie at an Arclight with fantastic sound. Finally, I can't imagine why the ending (I won't spoil it, but you know what I refer to) feels like a betrayal for some. I thought it simply highlighted the strength of the relationship between Wayne and Alfred.

But it's okay, I just watched Donnie Darko tonight again, and feel much better now.

OMG, that reminds me of this movie called Signs...

.... ugh, that was an awful movie.

On both counts, I am suddenly much more okay with you not loving this movie :p
 

Words of Ivory

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I think I am retiring, I have given my life in the debate of this movie; but I bequeath upon you the legacy of continuing the fight.
Hahaha. I appreciate the honour. However, I'm afraid I'll have to turn down your request.

I can't help but feel sad every time I think of this movie, because of what happened in Colorado. As undeniably decent as the movie was, lingering on it keeps bringing my mind back to that, and I can't seem to distance myself from it. The whole tragic event sucks.

This is the one movie this year I really wanted to debate to people too, which is frustrating.
 

Totenkindly

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... I also thought the emotion of the relationships between Wayne and Alfred and Wayne and Gordon was effective and strong. I have quibbles, but they're small. I thought Matthew Modine's character and performance were weak, and I had trouble understanding Bane's dialogue even though I saw the movie at an Arclight with fantastic sound. Finally, I can't imagine why the ending (I won't spoil it, but you know what I refer to) feels like a betrayal for some. I thought it simply highlighted the strength of the relationship between Wayne and Alfred.

I agree with all that, although with the last, if looked at from another perspective, it comes off as DoD suggested...

Things don't have to be one or the other, you know; both can be true, it just depends on which angle you're looking at it through.

On both counts, I am suddenly much more okay with you not loving this movie :p

I have no idea how to read that!

as far Shyamalan goes, I think his first (well, second, if you count the low budget one) was his best -- the two years he spent honing the script and doing the movie shows greatly in the outcome. And then, slowly, every movie he's made seems to become worse and worse. I'm hoping The Last Airbender is truly the last.

At least Nolan's capital continues to rise.
 

Totenkindly

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Hahaha. I appreciate the honour. However, I'm afraid I'll have to turn down your request.

I can't help but feel sad every time I think of this movie, because of what happened in Colorado. As undeniably decent as the movie was, lingering on it keeps bringing my mind back to that, and I can't seem to distance myself from it. The whole tragic event sucks.

I'm sorry. And yes, it's a huge downer. I do okay as long as I don't think of it. But now I'm thinking of it again. *doh*

I heard they weren't releasing stats for the weekend take (attendance and money brought in) out of respect for the dead. I'm not sure how that helps, as the movie is still being shown, but... whatever.

This is the one movie this year I really wanted to debate to people too, which is frustrating.

:(
 
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Ginkgo

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Hmm... now I'm reminded of this OTHER movie....!

But I probably shouldn't touch that one. (Flying monkeys -- tish tosh!!!)



But I can tie it together. What did you guys think of the trailer for Oz The Great and Powerful?

Ewoks.jpg

They bypassed our sensors... no one saw them coming...
 
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