• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

The Walking Dead- CONTAINS SPOILERS!

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I love how this show dictates how we'll feel about certain characters, based on their actions. Now The Governor is a good guy. But check out this clip for next week. And note that the little girl isn't with them.

I'd rather be surprised, so I'll just wait for the episode to air.

I did think it was a powerful episode, I was kind of shocked they could make him as sympathetic a character as they did; but it did leave me wondering what would happen once he got a taste of power back. If he falls again, I don't think he's coming back.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
... If he falls again, I don't think he's coming back.

^^ yeah. I was right about that one.

On the upside, at least they're no longer in the prison and we can do something more interesting.

On the downside, that was just a stupid boring episode and I didn't feel much for any of it, and now we're out a few more characters. How can these people consistently fuck up the mid/end season cliffhangers? It's like they get so caught up in trying to do something epic, all the tension bleeds out of it. Any character development for the Guv'nor that occurred an episode or prior was tossed out the window, and it was just people doing stupid things to further a preordained plot.

I'm feeling like this show kind of died without even jumping a shark.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
I thoroughly enjoyed the latest episode.

I am excited for the extreme degrees of separation LoTR's style.
 
0

011235813

Guest

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Completely agree on the first point. Even before the Governor went firmly back to the dark side, I thought all the psychological exploration in those two solo episodes was boring as batshit. Especially when I really wanted to know what was going on with the killer flu back in the prison.

That's not what the article had said.

It implied that if they had actually PURSUED the dramatic line they started with the Governor, then it would have been rewarding. It was only a waste because they essentially just tossed it in the trash "because [he's] Evil" so they could stage the prison battle.

That first episode of the Governor's plotline is actually one of my favorite shows of this season.... which just makes it worse, because it might as well have not happened. Wasted investment, wasted energy. The show is working in ways contrary to its own interest; by cannibalizing its own cast in mundane shallow ways, it sends the message to "not care" about anyone, especially if they are new characters. I know they have a difficult job, since the show necessarily entails continual deaths, but it doesn't even seem like there's an effort being made. That episode dramatically was a bitch to pull off, but somehow they did nail it (writer, director, actor); and then it was nixed by what followed.

They never really showed the end of the flu, did they? Glenn's pretty much well again, if weak. I guess getting the antibiotics or whatever was the silver bullet.

I also thought the situation with Herschel was a waste. It's too bad they didn't have him die during the flu, that would have made sense and fit his character. Again, it just another plot point -- "We need to <do this> to get so-and-so to <do this>, so then we can have <so-and-so> die like this just like in the comic."
 
0

011235813

Guest
That's not what the article had said.

It implied that if they had actually PURSUED the dramatic line they started with the Governor, then it would have been rewarding. It was only a waste because they essentially just tossed it in the trash "because [he's] Evil" so they could stage the prison battle.

That first episode of the Governor's plotline is actually one of my favorite shows of this season.... which just makes it worse, because it might as well have not happened. Wasted investment, wasted energy. The show is working in ways contrary to its own interest; by cannibalizing its own cast in mundane shallow ways, it sends the message to "not care" about anyone, especially if they are new characters. I know they have a difficult job, since the show necessarily entails continual deaths, but it doesn't even seem like there's an effort being made. That episode dramatically was a bitch to pull off, but somehow they did nail it (writer, director, actor); and then it was nixed by what followed.

They never really showed the end of the flu, did they? Glenn's pretty much well again, if weak. I guess getting the antibiotics or whatever was the silver bullet.

I also thought the situation with Herschel was a waste. It's too bad they didn't have him die during the flu, that would have made sense and fit his character. Again, it just another plot point -- "We need to <do this> to get so-and-so to <do this>, so then we can have <so-and-so> die like this just like in the comic."

Yeah, I get that. I guess my personal feelings on how boring they were just overtook the point I was originally going to make, which was that those episodes felt like even more of a waste of time because of how the governor ended up.

I was really digging Herschel this season so I'm sad to see him go. I guess they had to make some kind of emotional impact with the oh shit it's the Governor episode and that was the angle they took. Ah well.

I hope Carol shows up again or that'll be another waste. She was actually cool at the beginning of the season.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I was really digging Herschel this season so I'm sad to see him go. I guess they had to make some kind of emotional impact with the oh shit it's the Governor episode and that was the angle they took. Ah well.

Herschel might have been my favorite character at this stage -- at least in terms of his depth. He had the biggest perspective on everything, and managed to merge realism and idealism very very well. I'm not sure who Rick will go to in the future for wisdom.

I hope Carol shows up again or that'll be another waste. She was actually cool at the beginning of the season.

Totally. I have always hated Carol... until this season, and now she was cool. I mean, I had issues with her burning sick people to "protect the tribe" as a unilateral decision, but she's always been so weak and timid and impotent. The Carol this season actually has strength and purpose and is more sure of herself.

I'm assuming they're saving her as a wild card for something.
 

SensEye

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
485
MBTI Type
INTp
The article made some good points. While I love all things zombie, I wonder about the longevity of any zombie show. It seems they all follow the pattern of:

1) Start with the zombocalypse and show groups struggling to survive the initial chaos
2) Initial chaos has passed, now it's about the same small groups struggling to survive long term
3) Next the groups start to turn on each other, and man's inhumanity to man becomes the central theme of the struggle (moving away from zombies)
4) Usually the denouement is that mankinds inability to get along causes everyone to implode.

It would be an intersting change of pace to see groups co-operate with the theme being the stuggle to re-build society. I guess if it's too successful it would become boring, but the predictablity of everytime some group builds a mini-safe haven - it's only a matter of time before it falls apart is a bit boring too.

Walking dead wise, count me among those miffed that just as I started to like Hershel, they off him. I would have been much happier if Glen would have been the sacrificial lamb. I consider any Glen/Maggie couple scene a trigger to hit the FF button these days. I have no idea what they were blathering about in the prison pre-guv attack, I skipped right past it. I'm confident I missed nothing.
 

Stigmata

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
8,779
I have the first three seasons of this show, yet haven't had the time or patience to watch a single episode yet. From everything I've been told it's really good, though.

Also, has anyone played The Walking Dead game from Telltale? Playing through that is what originally piqued my interest in the actual TV series.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I have the first three seasons of this show, yet haven't had the time or patience to watch a single episode yet. From everything I've been told it's really good, though.

I think they spend about $3 million per episode. It has a pretty high production quality for a TV show; the zombies are movie-quality.

Also, has anyone played The Walking Dead game from Telltale? Playing through that is what originally piqued my interest in the actual TV series.

I have played the game up to the convenience store segment (part 2-3?). I liked it, I just got stuck and then got caught up in some other games. I plan to finish, I thought it was pretty decent for what it was. I'm also kind of nervous about moral decisions I'll have to make later in the series. I already had to make a call or two that had some interesting impact on the storyline.

The article made some good points. While I love all things zombie, I wonder about the longevity of any zombie show. It seems they all follow the pattern of:

1) Start with the zombocalypse and show groups struggling to survive the initial chaos
2) Initial chaos has passed, now it's about the same small groups struggling to survive long term
3) Next the groups start to turn on each other, and man's inhumanity to man becomes the central theme of the struggle (moving away from zombies)
4) Usually the denouement is that mankinds inability to get along causes everyone to implode.

Yeah, that seems a fair assessment.

It would be an intersting change of pace to see groups co-operate with the theme being the stuggle to re-build society. I guess if it's too successful it would become boring, but the predictablity of everytime some group builds a mini-safe haven - it's only a matter of time before it falls apart is a bit boring too.

Let's face it, every show has an expiration date, and you can't make the story go longer without ending it or changing the story a bit.

I do think it would be interesting to get a society actually established. The prison tried to do it a bit, but they just immediately would kill off all the newcomers, and we didn't really see as much internal power coups in place. Woodbury was interesting, and their implosion didn't have to occur. It was kind of contrived.

I thought the recent episode with the Governor finding a small collection of humans NEAR his new encampment and them trying to decide whether to hit them or not and steal their supplies was interesting, since it raises a question of relative morality... Can we continue to honor higher values, or are we risking ourselves by allowing OTHER groups with less morals to wipe them out? Or do we invite them into our camp and hope they fit in? Etc.

And then we have the "bigger" and "biggest" fish scenarios, where you ally with a group larger than your enemy to beat your enemy, but then you have a new problem to deal with.

There's some exciting stuff there to be explored and lots of interesting stuff that could have been done. Unfortunately, it all got dropped for, "Have to have a standoff with Rick in the prison cuz that's what's in the book." Meh. I'll be honest -- the PRIOR battle last season where the governor busts into the prison and seeds the grounds with truckloads of active zombies was far more ingenuous and interesting than this last episode. That was a pretty cool and pretty nasty idea.
 

Stigmata

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
8,779
I have played the game up to the convenience store segment (part 2-3?). I liked it, I just got stuck and then got caught up in some other games. I plan to finish, I thought it was pretty decent for what it was. I'm also kind of nervous about moral decisions I'll have to make later in the series. I already had to make a call or two that had some interesting impact on the storyline.

Ha!

The decisions you'll have to make only progressively increase in severity as the game continues and the tone becomes more bleak.

I really enjoyed the story of the game, and I hope the TV series keeps the same general theme of hopelessness and capturing the essence of how ruthless people can be when it comes to insuring their own survival.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Ha!

The decisions you'll have to make only progressively increase in severity as the game continues and the tone becomes more bleak.

I really enjoyed the story of the game, and I hope the TV series keeps the same general theme of hopelessness and capturing the essence of how ruthless people can be when it comes to insuring their own survival.

Yeah, I didn't like it in terms of being IN the game -- I was starting to feel the pinch, there were no "right" answers, just choices, and you have to start giving up stuff you wanted to keep to keep something else. Prioritization.

However, as a gamer and as a writer, I really did like that. I think putting the player in the squeeze is a pretty good idea. It makes people think.
 

Stigmata

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
8,779
I just started watching the actual TV series a few days ago, and I've been sucked in. I'm almost on Season 3 now, and a certain event involving a certain barnyard revelation had me bawling like a little weenie last night.

What I love about this show, as morbid as it sounds, is the overwhelming sense of hopelessness, and continuing to find some reason to persist onward and maintain hope despite no real actual prospect of improvement. Plus, I also love how they capture just how cruel and unemphatic desperation can allow people to become.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I just started watching the actual TV series a few days ago, and I've been sucked in. I'm almost on Season 3 now, and a certain event involving a certain barnyard revelation had me bawling like a little weenie last night.

Yeah, the "barn event" was pretty cray. One of the best moments of the show... and it was one of the departures from the comic, so it blindsided people who thought they knew better.

Aside from the fact they spend all of Season 2 at the The Farm, there were some pretty powerful episodes there, especially revolving around Shane. The last two episodes of Season 2 are pretty wild. The whole thing really started for me on that run that Shane and Otis made to the school -- great episode ending there with Shane staring in the mirror. And it starts to explore what kind of moral choices people end up making.

What I love about this show, as morbid as it sounds, is the overwhelming sense of hopelessness, and continuing to find some reason to persist onward and maintain hope despite no real actual prospect of improvement. Plus, I also love how they capture just how cruel and unemphatic desperation can allow people to become.

Totally. In the best episodes, that's the kind of thing that is explored.
 

Stigmata

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
8,779
Totally. In the best episodes, that's the kind of thing that is explored.

I especially like how despite the viewer pitying the characters, their situation, and wanting some form of positive resolution to things, they don't pull-the-punch.

Despite the virtuousness efforts of Rick, they show that he, too, is very much vulnerable and an emotional wreck who is struggling to find the meaning in moving forward; They don't allow his moral compass to dictate the direction of the show, and as much as he'd like to save everyone and ensure them that things will improve and that he can provide them with protection, in a lot of the instances so far, he's failed, which makes the successes of Shane even that much more gripping, despite that darker turn in the direction of his character.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I especially like how despite the viewer pitying the characters, their situation, and wanting some form of positive resolution to things, they don't pull-the-punch.

yeah. It's pretty starkly honest much of the time, kinda like the reason I like Breaking Bad so much.

One can actually be sympathetic to Shane, despite all the tension and division he causes, because you also (as you say) see his successes and also there is some intention there to save the group. Are pre-apocalyptic ethics part of a post-apocalyptic world? The show asks that question a lot... and in the best moments, even making what we would say to be the "right" choice sometimes has some immediate detrimental outcome. Shane's power comes from the fact that, in many ways, he is actually correct. What it comes down to is idealism vs realism and what we are willing to live and die for.

Despite the virtuousness efforts of Rick, they show that he, too, is very much vulnerable and an emotional wreck who is struggling to find the meaning in moving forward; They don't allow his moral compass to dictate the direction of the show, and as much as he'd like to save everyone and ensure them that things will improve and that he can provide them with protection, in a lot of the instances so far, he's failed, which makes the successes of Shane even that much more gripping, despite that darker turn in the direction of his character.

Rick really struggles for awhile, continuing into Season #3. It doesn't really get easier for him. In fact, things just seem to get worse and worse... as you will notice. There's some real doozy episodes in the first half of Season #3, including one of my favorite episodes ever.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
you know, I really really wish that this show was consistent.

The opener for Season 4, second half, I thought was really strong and kind of reminded me of why I had ever liked the series in the first place. It was written by Kirkman (so I'm gonna have to give him props) and directed by Nicotero, who's directed some pretty strong episodes including the one where Merle and Daryl meet for the last time... It was paced nicely, took its time, and I felt like it really conveyed the seriousness of what just happened. I felt like Herschel got screwed over big-time by the mid-season cliffhanger, it was just so poorly treated; but Herschel's appearance here with Michonne was handled just right.

It was a great character study of Michonne and Carl, despite not much dialogue. Carl's growing up and trying to find that balance of being a man while still admitting his own fear. I just thought it was great how he shifts back and forth, trying to be the grownup but... he's just not quite there yet even though for all intents and purposes he carries that load regardless.

The whole scene with him eating on the roof was just funny, albeit also unsettling; and him telling his dad what he ate made me laugh.

Rick has definitely seen better days. he really took quite the beating from the Governor. I don't think I've ever seen him so poor off. Who is he, now that he really ISN'T the leader and protector (as he has no one to lead)?

It's also nice to see a little bit of Michonne's backstory, but there's likely far more to come. Also, she has changed; she used to just be able to walk with the zombies as a matter of survival, but she no longer wants just survival, she's more than a zombie, she wants to be with other people. That was a big step for her -- given a choice between going solitary and finding others, well, she made her choice.

I really hope the quality stays this high for the rest of the season, but this show is just a crapshoot sometimes. I'm expecting disappointment but hoping I'm wrong.
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
23,989
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6
Finally watched this- and this is all I can think about:

 
Top