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Game of Thrones!

Totenkindly

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To be fair though, did anyone else notice the vicious c*** punt Sandor gave Brienne? If not, I will show you.

Yeah, I saw that -- he dished it back to her, and it hurt her pretty bad.


How many times has a man been in a fight been like, "Yay!, I'm gonna win!! [and then..]"

It was pretty cray for her -- looks like she grabbed a rock since she no longer had a weapon. She's never been a gladiator fighter before, but this was pretty much 'bar room fight / seat of your pants" fighting.

I think Disco said that the Hound was more likely to win in such a match-up and I'd agree, more times than naught. Brienne just happened to have some decent crit rolls on her d20. I also will note that the Hound was likely suffering sepsis at this point from earlier wounds suffered, so he wasn't in top form.


This fight was epic though. beautiful battle ground. Two Warrior Legends, The Hound, even more legendary, though Brienne will now have songs written about her I'm sure.

Epic fight in the short term, a failure in the big scale -- they were fighting over Arya, and both lost in that regard.

It was pretty much two parents trashing each other over the future of their child, and their kid finally flips them both the bird and says, "I can take care of myself, thank you so very much," and walks off.
 
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God, Hodor is such a useless Hodoring piece of Hodor, all he's hodor for is hodoring hodor around.





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Thank God, Bran is a Worg.


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edit: fuck, guess imgur.com is down
 
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Yeah, I saw that -- he dished it back to her, and it hurt her pretty bad.




It was pretty cray for her -- looks like she grabbed a rock since she no longer had a weapon. She's never been a gladiator fighter before, but this was pretty much 'bar room fight / seat of your pants" fighting.

I think Disco said that the Hound was more likely to win in such a match-up and I'd agree, more times than naught. Brienne just happened to have some decent crit rolls on her d20. I also will note that the Hound was likely suffering sepsis at this point from earlier wounds suffered, so he wasn't in top form.




Epic fight in the short term, a failure in the big scale -- they were fighting over Arya, and both lost in that regard.

It was pretty much two parents trashing each other over the future of their child, and their kid finally flips them both the bird and says, "I can take care of myself, thank you so very much," and walks off.

Good point about the Hound being weakened. Probably a little malnourished too. He wasn't eating Hot Pie's hot pies.

Arya, ungrateful little twat. She likes to think she's done everything on her own or something. But it's almost fact that she'd be dead without Sandor. She can't even give him that final request.
 

Totenkindly

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Good point about the Hound being weakened. Probably a little malnourished too. He wasn't eating Hot Pie's hot pies.

Arya, ungrateful little twat. She likes to think she's done everything on her own or something. But it's almost fact that she'd be dead without Sandor. She can't even give him that final request.

Note what she did do, very consciously and provocatively.

She took his silver, like he had taught her. It doesn't matter how nice someone is, according to the Hound; if they'll be dead by winter, there's no point in being sentimental about things, if you want to survive.

She could have easily killed him, but maybe she didn't want to at that point?
She certainly couldn't have saved him.
It's up to him to live or die.

He also was in that scrape beacuse both he and Brienne were treating her like an object to be fought over, without consideration of what she wanted. If either had stood down or listened to her, he wouldn't have been in that mess. It's rather obnoxious for him to demand she carry his blood on her hands, when it's his own fault he was laying there at the bottom of that cliff.

Like Jesse tells Walter at the end of Breaking Bad, "If you want it... do it yourself."
 
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Note what she did do, very consciously and provocatively.

She took his silver, like he had taught her. It doesn't matter how nice someone is, according to the Hound; if they'll be dead by winter, there's no point in being sentimental about things, if you want to survive.

She could have easily killed him, but maybe she didn't want to at that point?
She certainly couldn't have saved him.
It's up to him to live or die.

He also was in that scrape beacuse both he and Brienne were treating her like an object to be fought over, without consideration of what she wanted. If either had stood down or listened to her, he wouldn't have been in that mess. It's rather obnoxious for him to demand she carry his blood on her hands, when it's his own fault he was laying there at the bottom of that cliff.

Like Jesse tells Walter at the end of Breaking Bad, "If you want it... do it yourself."


I'd say it's up to him, maybe, to die. Certainly can't go anywhere with that leg. Couldn't even get up to piss probably, much less get to somewhere that can heal him.

Don't know what he'd use to kill himself with.

But yeah, Arya being a piece of property. I feel like Sandor would have let her go if she insisted. But not Oathkeeper.

She didn't kill him cuz she felt he needed to think over the life he's lived.
 
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[MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION]

I was focusing less on his seemingly false threat of raping Sansa and more on what slipped out afterwards -- "at least I would have had one good moment in my life" or whatever he said. That one sentence to me is a window on a world of isolation and hurt. I wonder how many women he's actually been with who he wasn't actually paying for the pleasure... if even that, since it sounds like he's never had sex even as part of something as awful as rape.

I mean... his face.

You mean this face?

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:D :(
 
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imo, he's not even dead and she let him live because she thinks he can survive.

For the sake of the sometimes vast differences in the books and the show, this is one possible interpretation.

I personally think she did it to let him reflect on his life.


True, it has been a valuable learning curve, but she is still too sure of herself, self-righteous, and quick to anger. She still assumes there's a right answer for the moral dilemmas she's been facing, when really it's lose-lose.

At very least I feel she's going to be forced to make a choice between maintaining her 'righteous' status but achieving little, versus genuinely affecting change but having to get her hands dirty to do so. Both options have the potential for disaster. It doesn't help that for her "Justice" is pretty much whatever she chooses to define it as.

You think she's quick to anger? I feel if she is angry, it's usually justified.

I don't think it's "lose-lose" I think she's just discovering ruling is like, hard. It's more of a gray (worm) area (haha, sorry had to).

I still think she's trying to make right decisions, but now she I think she's evolving to to the point of "what is the greatest for the greatest good?" Hard choices for sure. I don't envy her.


Also, as a eunuch, he might be able to shed some light on Grey Worm's "Grey Worm" situation, nam sayin'? :D

Goddang, I hope so. Right now, this is the biggest mystery of all.



As far as Arya and the Hound death scene is concerned, I'm just going to forget the books (don't read 'em, but hear reveals). I felt she was so stoic and quiet during that scene because she wanted to know what he'd say, how he'd respond knowing (or thinking he knows) that he was dying.

To me, it's a sort of confession scene, though you have to read between the lines. He admits his lifelong loneliness, but ultimately is not a bad man.

Arya is becoming quit cold and ruthless. Like Anakin, she may be walking down the Dark Side. I do think all of her killings so far have been justified. Though this thing with making The Hound suffer is odd. He did kill the Butcher boy, which is why he was on her kill list, but I think she's forgiven him for that. If not, that's part of the reason she's letting him die slow, because c'mon, how's he getting out of this? He can't walk, the only living people within like 100 miles seems to be Brienne and Big-Dick boy.

But then again, just as GOT surprises me with who they kill, also with who they let live. The Mountain, for one, whom I was 99.9% sure was dead.
 

Totenkindly

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...But then again, just as GOT surprises me with who they kill, also with who they let live. The Mountain, for one, whom I was 99.9% sure was dead.

There's a lot of that going around...

 

Udog

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Arya is becoming quit cold and ruthless. Like Anakin, she may be walking down the Dark Side.

Possible. If the story takes pains to let you like characters you initially hated (like Jamie), it would make sense that it would cause you to hate a character you initially liked. Don't know if that'll be Arya, but mayhaps.

There's a lot of that going around...


 

Totenkindly

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Yeah, I've heard Season 5 wasn't as tightly scripted in the books and (versus Season 1 for example) some stories have been greatly accelerated forward in terms of the book material versus others. Plus all the small changes are now accruing into perhaps some more divergent plotlines. I guess we'll see.

It will be most amusing if Martin doesn't write the books and the show scripts the ending to his story for him. BWA HA HA HA!!!
0Zc7f4d.gif
 
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Yeah, I've heard Season 5 wasn't as tightly scripted in the books and (versus Season 1 for example) some stories have been greatly accelerated forward in terms of the book material versus others. Plus all the small changes are now accruing into perhaps some more divergent plotlines. I guess we'll see.

It will be most amusing if Martin doesn't write the books and the show scripts the ending to his story for him. BWA HA HA HA!!!
0Zc7f4d.gif

Ha, that's a great gif. I love that little actor.

It's interesting. Martin still hasn't finished the books, the show isn't finished, the show excels in some places where the books do not. I wonder if he's now in cahoots with the show writers for the books.

I heard Michael Crichton basically wrote Jurassic Park 2 knowing it'd be based on the book. I"m sure there''s tons of books like tht. But it's cool that Martin seems to be working with HBO, as J2 was obviously shit.
 

Udog

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Yeah, I've heard Season 5 wasn't as tightly scripted in the books and (versus Season 1 for example) some stories have been greatly accelerated forward in terms of the book material versus others. Plus all the small changes are now accruing into perhaps some more divergent plotlines. I guess we'll see.

It will be most amusing if Martin doesn't write the books and the show scripts the ending to his story for him. BWA HA HA HA!!!

I think that's a pretty good possibility, too! Martin had some pretty crazy ideas on how they would adapt the TV show (such as 3 seasons for Books 4 and 5, which... no), and it's only been in the past few months that he really seemed to understand that the show creators are 100% serious about 7 seasons.

So while all isn't lost yet, things aren't looking good for the book fans. It appears the current timeline is to roll Books 4 and 5 into Season 5 (2015), with Winds of Winter = Season 6 (2016), and A Dream of Spring = Season 7 (2017). More or less.

I think there is a very reasonable chance that Winds of Winter will be released in 2015, so his only hope is that Winds of Winter has as many amazing game changing set pieces as Storm of Swords, forcing the TV show to go to 8 seasons. If that happens, Martin has until Season 8 (2018) to finish A Dream of Spring. That is, 3 years. He wrote the first 3 books in 2-3 years a piece, so it's plausible.

My money is on the TV show finishing first. Smarmy book readers are going to have some karma coming their way!

It's interesting. Martin still hasn't finished the books, the show isn't finished, the show excels in some places where the books do not. I wonder if he's now in cahoots with the show writers for the books.

Well, he writes the script for 1 episode every season, and he's in constant contact with the show's creators. He says that he doesn't consciously alter the books for the show, but admits that the show can affect his writing. The perfect example is Natalia Tena's Osha. She's more interesting in the TV show, and Martin said he will likely end up writing that into the books.
 

Totenkindly

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Looks like they are likely recasting Myrcella for Season 5.

The key Game of Thrones Season 5 character has been recast, with Northern Irish actress Aimee Richardson out and English actress Nell Tiger Free in. HBO has not confirmed that news yet, however.

Poor Pycelle. He didn't even get to finish his inspirational speech before the trial by combat.

Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.
 

Totenkindly

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This was amusing. Some of his impressions are better than others,
but at least many of the lines are funny and he usually gets the tone correct.

 

Qre:us

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She didn't kill him cuz she felt he needed to think over the life he's lived.

As far as Arya and the Hound death scene is concerned, I'm just going to forget the books (don't read 'em, but hear reveals). I felt she was so stoic and quiet during that scene because she wanted to know what he'd say, how he'd respond knowing (or thinking he knows) that he was dying.

To me, it's a sort of confession scene, though you have to read between the lines. He admits his lifelong loneliness, but ultimately is not a bad man.

Arya is becoming quit cold and ruthless. Like Anakin, she may be walking down the Dark Side. I do think all of her killings so far have been justified. Though this thing with making The Hound suffer is odd. He did kill the Butcher boy, which is why he was on her kill list, but I think she's forgiven him for that. If not, that's part of the reason she's letting him die slow, because c'mon, how's he getting out of this?

I think Arya not killing the Hound is also reflective of the lessons she learned from another kill they had along their journey. That of the old man that Arya and the Hound comes across, severely wounded by the raid, and dying, and the Hound does the merciful thing, giving him his last drop of water, and then killing him, ending his pain.

I think Arya, although she begrudgingly accepts the Hound as a person, and that he's not all bad, still is not completely convinced that he deserves mercy, a merciful death. Justice versus mercy. Imagining that they lie on the opposite ends of a continuum/spectrum.

Getting to know him along their journey, the clear lines between Justice versus Mercy, with regards to the Hound, blurs for her. So, she detaches herself, and leaves him to his own fate.

Justice, as she had initially promised to carry out, would be to kill him for killing the butcher's boy, on her terms, not his, when he's not wanting death, but she gives it to him, regardless, thereby delivering justice. Hence, why he made it to her (s)hit list. However, as time went out, I think she started to falter from that conviction of delivering Justice, with regards to the Hound.

However, she also saw examples of mercy, a merciful death, and, I don't think she was there yet, to jump from one end of the spectrum of Justice, all the way to the other end, towards believing that the Hound deserved a merciful death.

In Arya's eyes, he might no longer deserve the death she planned to carry out, in the name of Justice, but that doesn't mean he automatically makes it to the complete opposite end of the spectrum, towards yet deserving mercy. Morality, as GoT points out, is rarely black and white, and the journey from Justice to mercy is not one step over, but a process.

So she leaves the decision, the situation, where the colliding conclusion between justice and mercy, in that case, could have been one and the same. Hound's death. However, the delivery of it must be what defines justice from mercy. And, as this case wouldn't allow that distinction between delivery: would it be justice? would it mercy? She gave him neither.


He can't walk, the only living people within like 100 miles seems to be Brienne and Big-Dick boy.

LOL, that's Pod's secret with the ladies, is it?
 

Totenkindly

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I found the Hound/Arya scene in the book and it seems even colder there IMO.
It's not really that long, really only a page or two.
It does have Sandor saying the same kinds of stuff to goad her on, although I think he comes off more sympathetic on the show.

While the show does toss out some detail that readers enjoy, I find it a good adaptation in general: It basically hones in on the core stuff and then accentuates it. IOW, it distills out the essence.


LOL, that's Pod's secret with the ladies, is it?

I totally forgot that -- yeah, he got a free night in the brothel in Season 3 (?), and apparently he was quite the memorable member according to the girls working that shift.
 
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