Dragon Age II

[Atomic Fiend]

It's a step back.

 

[EcK]

my score for this game so far would be 70%
Taking into account the fact that most of the 'good things' (background etc.) came from dragon age: origins, I'd rate their work on this game 4\10.

 

[Totenkindly]

The combat system is BAD. You can't zoom out from the action and fights don't have any tactical feel to them. Your companions will just run off etc. sometimes, even when you just ordered them to stay in place. And there's no way to plan for combat: you can't cast spells before hand and enemies tend to just appear when you get to the center of a room and then reinforcement spawn out of nowhere. I litteraly couldn't have thought of a better way to take all the pleasure out of dragon age's 1 fights.

Yup. Again, you have to think "video game" (far more the model here) than the kind of combat system that was in DA 1. Aside from preprogramming your tactical slots, you have to approach it as if you were playing a real-time action-oriented video game. Which means you have to be prepped for when things jump you after you thought combat is over.

I don't even understand how they could have ended up with this when they already had most things right in dragon age 1. I mean I get the whole 'we want a more spectacular and nervous game for 12 and 20 year olds alike' but calling this game dragon age 2 is basically a lie.

I totally agree.

I didn't say it, but I actually was kinda pissed during the intro segment (while the dwarf is recalling his fictitious account, which acts basically as a mini-demo to set the player up for using the controls). I was afraid I wasn't going to get customization; I hated the combat; I hated not knowing what I was doing; and I consciously was thinking, "What the hells is this? This isn't Dragon Age 2, this is some other game marketed under Dragon Age 2."

Which it is.

They changed so much that it's really a separate game.

I might be kinder to it, if it had been a separate game not using the Dragon Age franchise label.

Did you guys play the FaceBook variation yet? Plan to?

So basically there's NO tactical cost to using big badass zone damage spells like fire balls etc.

You're right, there's not. I noted that too.

The only way they can compensate for that is by scaling mob durability up, but at least at low levels they did not do that. Like I said, Bethany just mowed over groups of mobs at once, without significant mana drain. SHe was only inhibited by the individual timers on her abilities.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

I knew it was for 12 year olds when I found that killing some one with a critical hit causes there bodies to shatter like glass leaving giant chunky parts of them selves all over the streets.

Keep it classy Bioware.

 

[Totenkindly]

I knew it was for 12 year olds when I found that killing some one with a critical hit causes there bodies to shatter like glass leaving giant chunky parts of them selves all over the streets.

Keep it classy Bioware.

What happens when you turn off gore?

(DA 1 had the gore setting too, but it wasn't quite so extreme even if your characters often came out of a fight looking like they tried to deliver a baby with a chainsaw.)

 

[Atomic Fiend]

I never turned off the gore. I imagine theres still blood though, the cutscene I'm watching now started with someone throwing a characters decapitated head at me, the eyes rolled back as it hit the ground.

It wasn't as over the top as say Ninja Gaiden or Dead Space, but still it was... dumb.

 

[EcK]

Yup. Again, you have to think "video game" (far more the model here) than the kind of combat system that was in DA 1. Aside from preprogramming your tactical slots, you have to approach it as if you were playing a real-time action-oriented video game. Which means you have to be prepped for when things jump you after you thought combat is over.

I never used the tactical slots in DA:Origins, I prefered to do all the work rather than have say, my mage use half of his\her (hir) mana in an unefficient way.
And frankly using it now to make the gameplay less of a pain in the ass seems ridiculous somehow.

I might be kinder to it, if it had been a separate game not using the Dragon Age franchise label.

You shouldn't, nor should anybody else. it isn't some 'revival of the licence'. We're talking about a game that was announced shortly after DA:O came out and DA:O was supposed to be an introduction, it's called 'origins' after all.

Did you guys play the FaceBook variation yet? Plan to?

I happen to avoid facebook like the pox

The only way they can compensate for that is by scaling mob durability up, but at least at low levels they did not do that. Like I said, Bethany just mowed over groups of mobs at once, without significant mana drain. SHe was only inhibited by the individual timers on her abilities.

yeah but see, they make the gameplay 'nervous' and then they add timers that make useful abilities take a hundred years to reload if you havent spent 3 levels upgrading that particular ability.
It doesn't make any sense. It's like they haven't stopped to think about any of the consequences of the changes they 've made to the gameplay.
I realising marketing \ market imperatives play an important role in a multi million dollars project like this but there's such a thing as team management. For example there are people with diplomas who could have helped them in building an efficient team for like 3K dollars a month, hell, a half smart business school intern could have done the job.

 

[Totenkindly]

I never used the tactical slots in DA:Origins, I prefered to do all the work rather than have say, my mage use half of his\her (hir) mana in an unefficient way. And frankly using it now to make the gameplay less of a pain in the ass seems ridiculous somehow.

I actually never used it either, except for very basic settings and typically to "correct" for crappy defaults.

(For example, Sten kept casting a power I didn't want him to use, and not casting one I did.) *doh*

You shouldn't, nor should anybody else. it isn't some 'revival of the licence'. We're talking about a game that was announced shortly after DA:O came out and DA:O was supposed to be an introduction, it's called 'origins' after all.

No complaints here. This is a half-cousin, not a true descendent.

I happen to avoid facebook like the pox

Probably one of the more polished complex games I've seen there (I just looked at it last night), but it's meant as a tie-in and it opens up new items for D2. So obviously it's a market tool in either direction.

yeah but see, they make the gameplay 'nervous' and then they add timers that make useful abilities take a hundred years to reload if you havent spent 3 levels upgrading that particular ability. It doesn't make any sense. It's like they haven't stopped to think about any of the consequences of the changes they 've made to the gameplay.

I wonder how many people on their programming staff and/or studio heads were changed, since the direction is so different. If their goal was to make a console game that ports easily to computer rather than a computer game that would be hard to port to the console, and that hits a demographic of 18-25 year old males, then apparently they have achieved their goal.

The change seems far more driven by marketing and business, rather than by the old game design staff. It's like an entire philosophy shift on what DA was originally conceived to be.

 

[EcK]

Another example: the habor in the first city is frankly not convincing and the harbor master's 'office' is in the middle of the street and there's no sign that the harbor has anything like geniune storing facilities or is more than where 3 boats are parked. A harbor is a center of economic activity, not a square called 'the harbor' with a view on the sea

 

[EcK]

I wonder how many people on their programming staff and/or studio heads were changed, since the direction is so different. If their goal was to make a console game that ports easily to computer rather than a computer game that would be hard to port to the console, and that hits a demographic of 18-25 year old males, then apparently they have achieved their goal.

The change seems far more driven by marketing and business, rather than by the old game design staff. It's like an entire philosophy shift on what DA was originally conceived to be.

My thought as well, wether it's just pressures from EA and co or some marketing \investors kind of people or not, I just can't believe that the dynamics that led to a title like DA:O, which was from the start supposed to be the start of a saga was just a sly ploy to create a following by starting off the licence strongly. But I suspect it could have been an important part of the decision at the level of management though: 'let them do their game as well as they can and then we'll get a new strong licence to add to the EA portfolio' (which is how ea works, they stated their desire to invest on a few strong licences with frequent sequels many times).
It basically turned from a 'bioware game' into an 'EA game'

 

[EcK]

Maybe bioware needed money for their MMO project. That could have been a reason for the rush. (I can't believe that a game which uses the same maps over and over again like we're blind and maps that could be renamed 'railroads' wasn't rushed)

 

[KDude]

Damnit. You guys make me want to cancel my order.

I liked FF13 though, which was also a step back for it's genre. I guess I'm not too critical once I get into things. I hope it's the same here.

 

[EcK]

Damnit. You guys make me want to cancel my order.

I liked FF13 though, which was also a step back for it's genre. I guess I'm not too critical once I get into things. I hope it's the same here.

Cancel it. Not worth it.
FF13 was a good game. It wasn't 'FFish' enough but it was still a good game.
This is a bad game packaged into the background of a good game. It's not 'terrible' but i wouldn't pay over 20 dollars for it while the first one felt cheap for its content.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Only a couple hours into it, it's okay so far. I like that the combat pacing is a bit quicker/more visceral but other than that the mechanics bother me.

Step back indeed.

 

[KDude]

Cancel it. Not worth it.
FF13 was a good game. It wasn't 'FFish' enough but it was still a good game.
This is a bad game packaged into the background of a good game. It's not 'terrible' but i wouldn't pay over 20 dollars for it while the first one felt cheap for its content.

That sucks.. I'm going to try to cancel. If I can't, oh well.

I used to chat often with one of the Bioware writers actually. He had left, and after that, it seemed like Mass Effect 2 had suffered a bit. I thought it was a fluke, but there must have been more people who had left, if some of this streamlining is trickling down to Dragon Age as well (which was never really like their old games either, but cool enough). It makes wonder about that Star Wars game in the works too. I hate MMOs, but the only reason I'd play that one is because of what Bioware might bring to the table, storywise. It's sounding like that could suffer too (that is, unless all of the good writers left were actually moved there).

Umm, just a thought.

 

[EcK]

That sucks.. I'm going to try to cancel. If I can't, oh well.

I used to chat often with one of the Bioware writers actually. He had left, and after that, it seemed like Mass Effect 2 had suffered a bit. I thought it was a fluke, but there must have been more people who had left, if some of this streamlining is trickling down to Dragon Age as well (which was never really like their old games either, but cool enough). It makes wonder about that Star Wars game in the works too. I hate MMOs, but the only reason I'd play that one is because of what Bioware might bring to the table, storywise. It's sounding like that could suffer too (that is, unless all of the good writers left were actually moved there).

Umm, just a thought.

It's not a terrible game or anything btw. It's just that I wouldn't buy it given that I have a student's budget.
But yeah compared to DA:O they just are in different leagues

 

[crevalleJack]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Da...-Resolution-Textures-RPG-PC-Gaming,12349.html

Hi-Res Texture Pack for Dragon Age 2 Available

 

[EcK]

yet another comment: You bribe somebody, (and it didn't seem like there was an alternative way out) and they don't even tell you how much you're going to pay before accepting. They're not even trying to make it sound like you're making an actual choice and not following a rail.

edit: and then you're supposed to go check some cargo , you get 'through' the door and end up .. back in the street. Apparently you 'checked and the cargo was indeed inside'.
I'm sure it isn't because they didn't want to model a room or two.

edit2: actually, I think it may be a bug...

 

[EcK]

Before leaving for the expedition to the deep roads, you of course meet all the team.. in the middle of a busy street, because that's obviously where dwaves would discuss their business projects.

 

[erm]

Before leaving for the expedition to the deep roads, you of course meet all the team.. in the middle of a busy street, because that's obviously where dwaves would discuss their business projects.

Alright, you're slowly putting me off the game.

Hows the team combo stuff? Like disorientate, brittle, stagger etc.