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Genuine vs Superficial Interests

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Epiphany

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The thing I hate most about pop-culture and counter-culture is the superficial loyalty of their followers. The former only likes things that are mainstream and the latter refuses to like anything if it is popular, even if it piques their interest. Both choose their interests based on other people's interests.

I'm acquainted with a few indie kids who sneer at anything that is played on the radio. How hypocritical is that? I've heard some of their underground music and there's a reason why it's not played on the radio; it sounds like shit (generalizing). When it comes to music, I like what I like. I don't care who else does or doesn't like it. Why do people always say that a band has "sold out" if they start making money on their music? I think if someone has the potential to make a decent profit off of their abilities then they should take advantage of that opportunity. Another thing that pisses me off is when people think that a band should produce the same music every album. People change as they grow and an artist's material is going to reflect that. It doesn't mean that they betrayed their fans. :wtf:

The same is true for movies, books, etc... So many people feel a need to belong or rebel. Like whatever you like and stop putting labels on everything.
 

KDude

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I've always been able to discuss music with hipster types, but eventually, I throw a monkey wrench into the equation and say I like Hanson or something. I'm not a great musician, but I am a musician myself (often more than some of these hipsters), and I just approach it from a general point of view first. I feel it's all rhythm and dynamics between notes in the end. Keeping that in mind, I try to take songs on their own terms for the most part. I don't care if it became unpopular yesterday or that they are too popular, or what city's scene they came from, or if it was on the Twilight soundtrack, etc.. What I don't like is superficiality or insincerity within the bands themselves. Some themes just seem too forced. Like some metal band that puts on an angsty/evil/pissed off act, when they're actually nice polka musicians in secret. Or hip hop acts that sing about bling bling, girls, and cars, but in the end, only rented those props for their videos. I don't like seeing music reduced to image, basically.
 

Eckhart

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The thing I hate most about pop-culture and counter-culture is the superficial loyalty of their followers. The former only likes things that are mainstream and the latter refuses to like anything if it is popular, even if it piques their interest. Both choose their interests based on other people's interests.

I'm acquainted with a few indie kids who sneer at anything that is played on the radio. How hypocritical is that? I've heard some of their underground music and there's a reason why it's not played on the radio; it sounds like shit (generalizing). When it comes to music, I like what I like. I don't care who else does or doesn't like it. Why do people always say that a band has "sold out" if they start making money on their music? I think if someone has the potential to make a decent profit off of their abilities then they should take that opportunity. Another thing that pisses me off is when people think that a band should produce the same music every album. People change as they grow and an artist's material is going to reflect that. It doesn't mean that they betrayed their fans. :wtf:

The same is true for movies, books, etc... So many people feel a need to belong or rebel. Like whatever you like and stop putting labels on everything.

I tend to listen to stuff which does not really get streamed on radio and so I can understand this behaviour to some extent actually. You know, when you have a music taste which is different from what is streamed in mass media (which is basically only Pop, Hip Hop, Techno and the kind and occassionally on some channels some more traditional music etc.) it is more difficult to find bands which suit the own music taste. Thankfully there is the internets where you can find some good bands by chance or recommendation of other people with similar taste, but there is no simple way as in just putting on the radio and get what fits your taste all the time.

So then you finally find some good bands which start in exactly the kind of music way you like, and in their next 2-3 albums they get even better by evolution of their music. They reach now a popularity which still represents a niche in our society but is still higher than real underground bands. At that point suddenly several bands start to change their music drastic to a bit more mainstream stuff, which comes off with mostly new fans and more money, while old fans are mostly disappointed.

It is not always a bad development, and of course people change and want to try new things. Plus no one can blame them for doing what they want. However it is an annoying feel for the old fans who liked the old music and who now have to find again a new band which suit their music preference. And there is always a bad taste that the new mainstream music often feels no longer genuine because it feels like a compromise of the band for own preference and earning money and popularity. Genuinity in music are important though for being liked for many people, and I at least don't feel that genuinity anymore after most of those drastic changes.

That doesn't mean I like less popular music only because it is less popular. Sometimes I will like also more popular music (although it happens not very often anymore to be frank), and sometimes I think that bands which changed their music style sound even better although I liked already their old music.

I think people start to dislike for this reasons the mainstream. Because they blame mainstream for loosing "their" bands to the mainstream. Like mainstream stole their music. Is it rational? No, they should probably blame their bands or just accept things.
 
E

Epiphany

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I don't have a problem if people like other music that I don't care for. I understand that some decent music isn't going to be played on the radio. I just get annoyed by this attitude that if a song/band gets mass-exposure then it's no longer "cool" or whatever word you want to use.
 

ubee0173

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Is it bad/why is it bad if people want to be part of a group identity?

thats not a bad thing at all; a bit of belonging or wanting to is essential human nature. its just when people determine their likes/dislikes based on a sort of group mentality. people should just like what they like and not give two shits about who else likes it. unless their 'likes' involve murder and arson... then they should really reconsider the giving a shit thing.

i have a very eclectic taste in stuffs and can have a Very Serious Discussion about the merits and artistic integrity of what I like... but i like this just as much. so much for my artsy credibility!:D sorry, but i have to force this song into everyone elses head!
YouTube - Crabs
 

Mole

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Laughing All the Way to the Bank

The juvenile impulse to rebel has been siphoned off into popular music.

I can remember listening to a New York band called the Rebels in the Refectory of the Australian National University and I was struck by how confident they were and how phoney.

It's like, when you can fake sincerity you've got it made, or the revolution will he held on television. It's the kind of revolution you have when you are not having a revolution. It's the kind of revolution you have when you don't want to be shot.

And it is the kind of revolution held with all the pride of an obedient child. Hey, the whole country began with a revolution and look how revolutionary I am now.

Finally we have been able to exploit the Revolution safely while we laugh all the way to the bank.
 

OrangeAppled

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The thing I hate most about pop-culture and counter-culture is the superficial loyalty of their followers. The former only likes things that are mainstream and the latter refuses to like anything if it is popular, even if it piques their interest. Both choose their interests based on other people's interests.

I'm acquainted with a few indie kids who sneer at anything that is played on the radio. How hypocritical is that? I've heard some of their underground music and there's a reason why it's not played on the radio; it sounds like shit (generalizing). When it comes to music, I like what I like. I don't care who else does or doesn't like it. Why do people always say that a band has "sold out" if they start making money on their music? I think if someone has the potential to make a decent profit off of their abilities then they should take advantage of that opportunity. Another thing that pisses me off is when people think that a band should produce the same music every album. People change as they grow and an artist's material is going to reflect that. It doesn't mean that they betrayed their fans. :wtf:

The same is true for movies, books, etc... So many people feel a need to belong or rebel. Like whatever you like and stop putting labels on everything.


This used to bother me also.....but then I realized that not everyone personally identifies with their music taste. Mask, we're Fi-doms - it's important to be true to ourselves, be genuine, and blah blah blah. In a sense, we can rebel against rebelling sometimes, because rebelling for the sake of rebelling seems so contrived - blech! :D

However, in adopting the tastes of a group, other people are not necessarily betraying their own feelings - they are fulfilling a desire to belong, and more importantly, to bond. People who choose the indie route probably have some kind of elitist image they aspire to ("special snowflake"), but they also want to identify with other people (not be a loner), or maybe it suits their personal taste more and kills two birds with one stone. In any case, what they get out of music may simply be different, and so they take a different approach.

I admit I can be a bit a music snob & I used to sort of "judge" other people's music taste - not that I listen to anything oh so obscure, or oh so superior, but I honestly don't listen to the radio, because whenever I turn it on I am disappointed/annoyed. I'm sure some music I like is on the radio (especially older stuff), and gets played in stores & commercials & hyped on blogs, etc, but I'm not very aware of it. If a band I like gets hugely popular (or IS hugely popular), it does not deter me from naming them as a favorite. I do see people drop a band the minute it's hot though - they gotta always be two steps ahead of everyone so they can be "special". Other people won't admit they like something until other people do - it gives a sense of relief to know that they are not alone.

I just tell people I don't listen to the radio so when they ask what music I like, it doesn't sound like I am being pretentious & listing off bands they've never heard of to sound cool. I find people either know a LOT of the music I like because they share my taste, or very little, so it's kind of a fair warning that I tend to fall into a side niche instead of the epicenter of mainstream taste. I will joke that I live under a rock and music just manages to find me.

I think sharing "guilty pleasures" is really hilarious though - you then learn that NO ONE's taste is 100% anything and everyone listens to something outside of the sphere they've chosen to identify with or are naturally drawn to.
 
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E

Epiphany

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I understand a person wanting to belong to a group of like-minded people. I don't understand people who choose their values/interests based on other people's interests, whether in agreement or disagreement.

I think sharing "guilty pleasures" is really hilarious though - you then learn that NO ONE's taste is 100% anything and everyone listens to something outside of the sphere they've chosen to identify with or are naturally drawn to.

True. Some of the music I like seems to clash with the majority of it. None of my friends like the music I typically listen to and some of them vehemently dislike it, which makes it nearly impossible to find people to go to concerts with. :shrug:
 

Moiety

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As you grow old and wise, such as me, you begin to feel more and more comfortable in your high throne of exquisite taste in music (and art in general). You need to smile at the indies and ignore them like a parent does when his child starts spewing BS.
 

Such Irony

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The thing I hate most about pop-culture and counter-culture is the superficial loyalty of their followers. The former only likes things that are mainstream and the latter refuses to like anything if it is popular, even if it piques their interest. Both choose their interests based on other people's interests.

The same is true for movies, books, etc... So many people feel a need to belong or rebel. Like whatever you like and stop putting labels on everything.

Amen to that. If you were to look at my collection, you'd find both popular and more obscure stuff and some in between.

I take issue with those snobs who think that because something is really popular it must be beneath them. People shouldn't have to be made to feel inferior because of what they like or don't like.
 

OrangeAppled

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True. Some of the music I like seems to clash with the majority of it. None of my friends like the music I typically listen to and some of them vehemently dislike it, which makes it nearly impossible to find people to go to concerts with. :shrug:

I have this problem also, so I go to concerts alone a lot. It's actually an interesting way to meet people, although I've never had a real friendship come out of these meetings...
 
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The thing I hate most about pop-culture and counter-culture is the superficial loyalty of their followers. The former only likes things that are mainstream and the latter refuses to like anything if it is popular, even if it piques their interest. Both choose their interests based on other people's interests.

I'm acquainted with a few indie kids who sneer at anything that is played on the radio. How hypocritical is that? I've heard some of their underground music and there's a reason why it's not played on the radio; it sounds like shit (generalizing). When it comes to music, I like what I like. I don't care who else does or doesn't like it. Why do people always say that a band has "sold out" if they start making money on their music? I think if someone has the potential to make a decent profit off of their abilities then they should take advantage of that opportunity. Another thing that pisses me off is when people think that a band should produce the same music every album. People change as they grow and an artist's material is going to reflect that. It doesn't mean that they betrayed their fans. :wtf:

The same is true for movies, books, etc... So many people feel a need to belong or rebel. Like whatever you like and stop putting labels on everything.

In my experience, it's been easiest just to not care about any of it. Don't allow their opinions to fire your emotions up. Let that whatever fade off into nothingness. Another thing: the term "sell out" is the equivalent of "walk off home run"; it's... useless, really. You're correct, however, in your assertion that listeners ought not to completely disregard the radio as a source for media. I think of it as a neighborhood drinking fountain; it may be found with a used condom on it someday or another, but hallelujah-- water continues to stream from the abyss.

I, personally, always have future potential in mind. Keep your ears open; get the most bang for your buck at free shows because that's when they put forth their truest efforts. Are they/s/he doing it differently, or at least attempting then maybe subtly/openly admitting their human failings when the presentation doesn't come off as planned? I attend shows to engross myself in the flow/buzz of the moment (for no other reason); as long as I select the right show, the euphoria garnered satisfies the needs. It's actually for the best if I'm not bothered by anyone else, free to savor the experience in relative peace.

You'd be a more efficient author if you were to explain your plan to be the next whoever's gonna redefine music on in a global, non-record industry-related way. But until that happens, you're just a monster truck burning your tires out in the giant mud puddle.
 
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