Star Trek

[Oberon]

It's been too long. You can't bring a show back after five years, it wouldn't feel the same.

Yes and no. They brought back Star Trek. It didn't feel the same.

posts split from Firefly

 

[Oberon]

The show returned as The Next Generation...

Yeah, I'm clear on that.

...which was, after a respective three seasons, several times better than the original series.

It's arguable. I never cared for the preachy, kum-ba-yah PC tone of TNG. Also, the later series never came up with a character as interesting as Spock.

I will agree that, once the first couple of seasons were behind them, the TNG crew got their production values about a mile higher than those of the original Star Trek.

 

[htb]

I never cared for the preachy, kum-ba-yah PC tone of TNG.

It pains me to tell you this, but the entire franchise enjoyed a six-year golden age following the creative divestment and death of Roddenberry. Fourth season on, utopian talk was usually treated as cant.

Also, the later series never came up with a character as interesting as Spock.

"Soporific." You meant to use the word "soporific." Brent Spiner runs rings around Leonard Nimoy. Better singer off-set, too.

I will agree that, once the first couple of seasons were behind them, the TNG crew got their production values about a mile higher than those of the original Star Trek.

TNG had characters. TOS had cutouts decorating Shatner's overwrought performances.

Edit: From the interposing movie era, I'll concede, but still priceless.

 

[Oberon]

Oh, you're so assertive, htb. Evidently you believe quite strongly in your own point of view, so I'll leave you to it.

EDIT: Truth be told, I prefer season 2 onward of Babylon 5 to ST:whatever.

 

[htb]

Kha-a-a-n!

Heh.

 

[Oberon]

Heh.

You're misattributing quotations to me.

Oh, and by the way... "Force of Nature" was a seventh-season episode. Don't you tell me that Star Trek PC died with Roddenberry...!

 

[Totenkindly]

Which one was that? About the [lesbian] lovers?

I used to be a TNG junkie and thought it worlds better than TOS. And there were some good episodes -- very deeply character-driven episodes. Many of the characters were nicely fleshed out. (And Q deserves and possesses iconic status, I think.)

But eventually I felt like it was not raw enough, simply too neatly polished. That made the show and the characters weak to me. Politically correct cub scouts. I have heard better comments in terms of realistic characters regarding Bablyon 5 (Seasons 2-5) as well as STDSN if I have to refer back to a ST franchise. Even Lost has more "real" characters.

There is still nothing like the adrenaline rush of watching Kirk rumble in the jungle, or the campy exhilaration of listening to him proudly repeat The Declaration of Independence.

 

[Oberon]

Which one was that? About the [lesbian] lovers?

That's LISBON. It's a city in Portugal! :steam:

 

[htb]

Oh, and by the way... "Force of Nature" was a seventh-season episode. Don't you tell me that Star Trek PC died with Roddenberry...!

That's right, a kind of galactic warmism, bringing on the "speed limit" which writers tried to acknowledge for some time afterward. PC to the end, perhaps, but less kumbaya; certainly so by the fourth season of Deep Space Nine.

or the campy exhilaration of listening to him proudly repeat The Declaration of Independence.

I can report that when one is challenged with "Who are you to judge?," the rejoinder "Who do I have to be?" really works.

 

[sassafrassquatch]

Yes and no. They brought back Star Trek. It didn't feel the same.

posts split from Firefly

I meant you can't bring back the same series after it's been off for a few years.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I find Star Trek comforting, but not that expressive. I enjoy watching it with friends or when I'm really tired.

 

[Aven]

TNG is and will always be the best.

But that is just my opinion.

 

[Oberon]

TNG is and will always be the best.

But that is just my opinion.

I don't trust its idealistic picture of the future; that looks like a kind of propaganda to me.

 

[Athenian200]

I actually like both series of Star Trek. They're very different, but they have their own strengths and weaknesses. I like the original series because of the sense of the characters being barely removed from the pioneers of space travel, and having that same spirit of exploration and innovation for the most part... respecting their own idea of what was right above all, yet still respecting those above them in rank who had demonstrated leadership.

In Next Generation, you see a different sort of idea. The Federation is more established, there are more guidelines, expectations, and bureaucracies. Some of the individual ideas are given up to unity and a sense of stability, although you can still discern their existence under pressure.

 

[JAVO]

In Next Generation, you see a different sort of idea. The Federation is more established, there are more guidelines, expectations, and bureaucracies. Some of the individual ideas are given up to unity and a sense of stability, although you can still discern their existence under pressure.

Plus, you've got a major 'droid crush on Data, don't ya 3PO?

 

[sassafrassquatch]

Series:

1. TNG
2. DS9
3. VOY
4. TOS
5. ENT "The Series of Which We Do Not Speak"

Movies:

1. II Wrath of Kahn
2. VII Generations
3. VI Undiscovered Country
4. I Motion Picture
5. VIII First Contact
6. X Nemesis
7. IX Insurrection
8. III Search for Spock
9. IV Voyage Home
10. V Final Frontier

 

[Aven]

I don't trust its idealistic picture of the future; that looks like a kind of propaganda to me.

It's a television series, obviously it would be nice if it was actually true, and the physics of it are kinda interesting, but for me it's a matter of opinion, personally I like the Foundation series much better than ST, but they haven't made a series or movie out of the books and I hope no one ever does.

 

[spirilis]

Series:

1. TNG
2. DS9
3. VOY
4. TOS
5. ENT "The Series of Which We Do Not Speak"

Movies:

1. II Wrath of Kahn
2. VII Generations
3. VI Undiscovered Country
4. I Motion Picture
5. VIII First Contact
6. X Nemesis
7. IX Insurrection
8. III Search for Spock
9. IV Voyage Home
10. V Final Frontier

that sounds about right for me... though I put Voyage Home a bit higher since it's the first ST movie/show/anything I ever saw; I'd probably flip-flop it with Motion Picture.

 

[The Ü™]

My favorites in Star Trek:

TV SERIES

1. The Next Generation
2. The Original Series
3. Deep Space Nine
4. Enterprise (it was probably the best of the lot during the first season, then it drastically went downhill)
5. Voyager

MOVIES

1. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
2. Star Trek: First Contact
3. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
4. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
5. Star Trek: Generations
6. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
7. Star Trek: Insurrection
8. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
9. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
10. Star Trek: Nemesis

For the movies, I don't subscribe to that silly even-numbered-films-are-good or odd-numbered-films-are-bad superstition. Although if you notice, the weaker ones were the ones that Industrial Light and Magic didn't work on (although they did a couple of stock shots from in Star Trek V, which were reimplemented from the previous film). And those films were weak not just in terms of special effects, but in terms of general storyline and/or movie-making quality...and they make up the four films below.

Star Trek: Insurrection was entertaining, but it was very TV-quality in terms of both storyline and effects.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture had great effects (for the time), a great story, and visionary concepts, but it was way too drawn out...it was mostly an unsuccessful 2001: A Space Odyssey clone.

Star Trek V had a great idea and story, but the application was terrible and the effects (done by Associates & Ferren) were absolutely dreadful. It did, however, have some interesting themes, even though Shatner hammed it up much of the time.

Nemesis was the one that had excellent effects (done by Digital Domain), but the movie itself was a total mess, complete with a plot that didn't even try to be inventive.

 

[Oberon]

It's a television series, obviously it would be nice if it was actually true...

You misunderstand me.

I don't dislike it because I think Roddenberry and company tried to use it as a vehicle for effecting social change (which, by the way, I think they did). I dislike it because behind the storylines and special effects I can sometimes detect a hint of the didactic stridency that came through Winston Smith's video feed. I don't dislike it because it's propaganda; I dislike it because it often tastes like propaganda.

And as has been said earlier, this was in large part (but not completely) Roddenberry's doing.