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I don't understand The Handmaid's Tale

Haphazard

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^ I don't mean it like that; I mean that the author gets to tidily toss aside a certain reality in favor of the things he or she wants to reveal to you the reader.

I could maybe imagine it if she had set it far in the future, but no: when things "start happening," the main character is at least out of college -- at least 22. By the end of the story, she is almost 40. It's not enough time.
 

Zarathustra

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Thanks for the explanation H. I hear what you are saying. I think though it's important to remember that the very definition of a dystopia excludes certain social issues and isolates and exaggerates others in order to point out negative qualities of the ones under examination.

Thus, many of the "loose ends" you rightly point out here, are *poof* magically gone. So interestingly, complaining about the lack of realism is irrelevant in the context of any dystopian "thought experiment."

I disagree.

Good dystopias are more realistic; bad dystopias are less realistic.

This relates back to Haphazard and my earlier discussion about dystopias, and how Phillip K. Dick's and Ray Bradbury's are the best, as they're the most realistic, and, hence, not only have applied at one time, but seem to continue to apply more accurately with each passing year.

"Brave New World" is still a pretty good dystopia, but, in my opinion, not as good as Dick's or Bradbury's.

"1984", well, that vision is not as accurate today as it was when he wrote the book (obviously, this is not entirely the case, and in certain countries it is more or less accurate than in others, but, on the whole, Orwell's vision, while important, has lost a bit of relevance with age).

This "The Handmaid's Tale", on the other hand, well, I haven't read it, but...
 

PeaceBaby

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Good, bad ... that's pretty subjective terminology you are using. The intent of the dystopia is make you rethink the values surrounding a societal issue, from small to large. Just because that VISION comes or doesn't come true, as the future unrolls, doesn't make it good or bad per se.

It's too bad (in a way) you haven't read the book as it makes it hard for you to place it in any relevant context anyway.


Edit: I don't disagree with your word substitution above. Either works. :)
 

Haphazard

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Good, bad ... that's pretty subjective terminology you are using. The intent of the dystopia is make you rethink the values surrounding a societal issue, from small to large. Just because that VISION comes or doesn't come true, as the future unrolls, doesn't make it good or bad per se.

It's too bad (in a way) you haven't read the book as it makes it hard for you to place it in any relevant context anyway.

Perhaps it's because I do not see the societal issue in hand as an issue.
 

Zarathustra

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Good, bad ... that's pretty subjective terminology you are using. The intent of the dystopia is make you rethink the values surrounding a societal issue, from small to large. Just because that VISION comes or doesn't come true, as the future unrolls, doesn't make it good or bad per se.

Meh...

Maybe if you buy into a flabby, weak-minded relativism...

Use whatever terms you want: good, bad, crap, a godsend...

What is important to realize is that a dystopia is more valuable to society if the issues it brings to the forefront are more accurate and realistic (i.e., genuinely and increasingly problematic to society).

It's too bad (in a way) you haven't read the book as it makes it hard for you to place it in any relevant context anyway.

Yeah.

It's too bad that there are a lot of books that I haven't read (and never will)...

C'est la vie...

handmaids-tale.jpg


What I can say is that this picture deeply disturbs me, and that I (and almost every American) would never let such a thing take place in our society.
 

Litvyak

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there seemed to be very little discussion of globalism in the book, though, just the use of ultraconservatism as a means to control and perpetuate the populace.

I was giving a possible reason for the the critics which praise the tale's actuality, I wasn't commenting on the content itself.
 

Haphazard

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What I can say is that this picture deeply disturbs me, and that I (and almost every American) would never let such a thing take place in our society.

Perhaps it's just offensive that a Canadian would think so little of us. :cheese:
 

Zarathustra

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First of all, ask yourself the following question: If you were going to take over the United States, how would you do it? Would you say, "I'm a socialist and we're all going to be equal"? No, you would not, because it wouldn't work. Would you say, "I'm a liberal and we are going to have a society of multiple toleration"? You probably wouldn't say that if you wanted mass support. You would be much more likely to say, "I have the word from God and this is the way we should run things." That probably would have more of a chance of working, and in fact there are a number of movements in the States saying just that, and getting lots of dollars and influence.

Interestingly enough, it seems all you have to say is "Hope" and "Change"...

Oh, and be half black... :cheese:
 

Haphazard

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Interestingly enough, it seems all you have to say is "Hope" and "Change"...

Oh, and be half black... :cheese:

No, no, everyone knows he doesn't have much real power.

All you have to do is be a Midwesterner and a half-Russian guy with a brilliant idea in Sillicon Valley.

I mean, honestly, there are SO MANY ways to take over the United States, and that's the best she could come up with?
 

PeaceBaby

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Perhaps it's just offensive that a Canadian would think so little of us. :cheese:

LOL that's such a weak comment it doesn't even merit a reply.

You have these issues surrounding nationality that are irrational, H. I hear the back-handed "PB is a Canadian too" slapped in there, even if you deny it.

Why do you take such a thing personally? Truly, it almost seems you don't like the novel because Margaret Atwood is a Canadian - is that your biggest contention?
 

Haphazard

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LOL that's such a weak comment it doesn't even merit a reply.

You have these issues surrounding nationality that are irrational, H. I hear the back-handed "PB is a Canadian too" slapped in there, even if you deny it.

Why do you take such a thing personally? Truly, it almost seems you don't like the novel because Margaret Atwood is a Canadian - is that your biggest contention?

No, it's not because she's Canadian. It just sounds like she has a damn-loaded agenda from her interview. I am wondering where the hell she is getting her perspective that there is only "Socialist" or "Liberal" and then "Messenger from God" when trying to take over a country.

Who knows? Maybe I just hate her because she's a woman.
 

Zarathustra

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Perhaps it's just offensive that a Canadian would think so little of us. :cheese:

LOL that's such a weak comment it doesn't even merit a reply.

You have these issues surrounding nationality that are irrational, H. I hear the back-handed "PB is a Canadian too" slapped in there, even if you deny it.

Why do you take such a thing personally? Truly, it almost seems you don't like the novel because Margaret Atwood is a Canadian - is that your biggest contention?

Hey, I think there's merit to her comment.

This woman is a Canadian writing about America, and, as such, her dystopic vision relates to her vision of America.

Perhaps this American just tends to think this Canadian doesn't have the slightest clue about what America really is like.
 

PeaceBaby

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^ well you could also say that someone in the South knows nothing about the midwest, or vice versa, or someone in New York has a totally different experience than someone in California.

Margaret Atwood lived in the US for several years; gives her as much a right to comment on it as anyone else I suspect.

Edit: and bear in mind, she lived in the US in the 60's and early 70's - totally different world. To expect her to conform to your experience is ludicrous.
 

Zarathustra

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Margaret Atwood lived in the US for several years; gives her as much a right to comment on it as anyone else I suspect.

I never said she didn't have the right.

I've read The Constitution (you know, the founding document that would ensure that her bullshit vision would never actually occur), and it grants her that right in its First Ammendment.

I just said that she doesn't seem to know what she's talking about.
 
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