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The Tool song "46&2" is about gaining Ni.

simulatedworld

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"My shadow's

Shedding skin and
I've been picking
Scabs again.
I'm down
Digging through
My old muscles
Looking for a clue.

I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own confused
And insecure delusions
For a piece to cross me over
Or a word to guide me in.
I wanna feel the changes coming down.
I wanna know what I've been hiding in

My shadow.
Change is coming through my shadow.
My shadow's shedding skin
I've been picking
My scabs again.

I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own chaotic
And insecure delusions.

I wanna feel the change consume me,
Feel the outside turning in.
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and
Cleansing I've endured within

My shadow
Change is coming.
Now is my time.
Listen to my muscle memory.
Contemplate what I've been clinging to.
Forty-six and two ahead of me.

I choose to live and to
Grow, take and give and to
Move, learn and love and to
Cry, kill and die and to
Be paranoid and to
Lie, hate and fear and to
Do what it takes to move through.

I choose to live and to
Lie, kill and give and to
Die, learn and love and to
Do what it takes to step through.

See my shadow changing,
Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor.
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow,
Coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow.
Forty six and two are just ahead of me."


My Ni is exploding right now. I just grasped the fundamental theorem of online poker and Ne is going nuts with the implications.


EDIT: Holy crap so is "Lateralus."

Black then white are all i see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see.
as below, so above and beyond, I imagine
drawn beyond the lines of reason.
Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines.

Black then white are all i see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see there is so much more and
beckons me to look thru to these infinite possibilities.
as below, so above and beyond, I imagine
drawn outside the lines of reason.
Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition leaving opportunities behind.
Feed my will to feel this moment urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.

I embrace my desire to
I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired to fathom the power, to witness the beauty,
to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
to swing on the spiral
to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human.

With my feet upon the ground I move myeslf between the sounds and open wide to suck it in.
I feel it move across my skin.
I'm reaching up and reaching out. I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.
 

Athenian200

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If that's Ni, then I've misinterpreted it.

I always saw it as more like this:

We are born of stone
And etched by wind
Cast aside to live or die
We are the pawns in our own game

Like refugees
Of silent wars
We step on ever-shifting ground
Promoting what we undermine

For countless days
We walked alone
Directionless and vulnerable
Sitting targets wearing smiles

CHORUS
No one of us will go unscathed
By private battles we have braved
A vicious circle we have built
Constructed from our shame and guilt

The flags we wave
Are set afire
To warm the bones of infant dreams
Even as our present is set ablaze

The tinderbox
We sit upon
Decays in churning mists of fog
And crumbles down into the sea

(Chorus)

We lie embraced
In the arms of dawn
The fading echoes of pointless time
Statuettes of Ignorance

And even as
The clock hand sweeps
We pay no mind to where we are
Surely we're not allowed to die

Or this:

I'm searching for answers
Cause something is not right.
I follow the signs,
I'm close to the fire.

I fear that soon you'll reveal
Your dangerous mind.

It's in your eyes, what's on your mind.
I fear your smile and the promise inside.
It's in your eyes, what's on your mind.
I fear your presence, I'm frozen inside.

I'm searching for answers
Not questioned before.
The curse of awareness,
There's no peace of mind.
As your true colors show
A dangerous sign.

It's in your eyes, what's on your mind.
I see the truth that you've buried inside.
It's in your eyes, what's on your mind.
There is no mercy, just anger I find.

I just have to know, while I still have time.
Do I have to run, or hide away from you?

It's in your eyes, what's on your mind.
I see the truth that you've buried inside.
It's in your eyes, what's on your mind.
There is no mercy, just anger I find.

It's in your eyes, what's on your mind.
I see the truth that you've buried inside.
It's in your eyes, what's on your mind.
There is no mercy, just anger I find. I find.

And more negatively, perhaps this:

Everybody tries to be straight,
But things are still unchanged,
It's useless to resist,
Their effort will be wasted.
Head straight for your goal by any means,
There is a door that you've never opened,
There is a window with a view you have never seen,
Get there, no matter how long it takes.

Oh dark, the darkness that dozes in the dusk,
Throw it all away.
No-one can break you, nobody can tear you,
You live an endless life forever.
Oh dark, the darkness that dozes in the dusk,
Throw it all away.
You see a light wherever you go,
You have to face it again and again.
And again and again and agaiiiiin!

(INSTRUMENTAL)

Oh dark, the darkness that dozes in the dusk,
Throw it all away.
No-one can break you, nobody can tear you,
You live an endless life forever.
Oh dark, the darkness that dozes in the dusk,
Throw it all away.
You see a light wherever you go,
You have to face it again and again.

(INSTRUMENTAL)

Oh dark, the darkness that dozes in the dusk,
Throw it all away.
No-one can break you, nobody can tear you,
You live an endless life forever.
Oh dark, the darkness that dozes in the dusk,
Throw it all away.
You see a light wherever you go,
You have to face it again and again.

Oh dark, the darkness that dozes in the dusk,
Throw it all away.
No-one can break you, nobody can tear you,
You live an endless life forever.
Oh dark, the darkness that dozes in the dusk,
Throw it all away.
You see a light wherever you go,
You have to face it again and again.
 

simulatedworld

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That's the NF version of Ni.

I guess I'm looking more at the purely conceptual/impersonal T kind.
 

redacted

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Yeah Maynard is definitely INJ.

P.S. Have you heard all that shit about how 46 and two refers to the human race getting two extra chromosomes? So random.
 

simulatedworld

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I used to say INTJ for Maynard but now I actually think pissy INFJ maybe?

Hard to say.
 

Athenian200

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That's the NF version of Ni.

I guess I'm looking more at the purely conceptual/impersonal T kind.

Honestly, it sounded more S than T. The metaphors were too physical.

I wouldn't call them "impersonal," so much as overly cathartic and Fi-ish sounding.

This is what I think of as impersonal Ni:

Now we live in desperate times
Standing ground behind the lines
Watch your back, obey the signs
Can't avoid the futile crimes

Laws will pass, so laws will break
Pay the price for one mistake
What you've earned someone will take
Realize the games we make

Life's short, and time will fly
Years pass before our eyes
Stand now and wonder why
Crime pays, and then you die

Things change, but in the end
Fair play cannot contend
Believe you will ascend
Crime pays, I can't pretend
 

nozflubber

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so wrong, yet again. 46 & 2 is a reference to the # of chromosomes in a human (23 pairs and 1 gender pair), and the song is about the corruption of the human form and it grows and decays in this world. But hey, don't let me stop you on your mission, son!
 

simulatedworld

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so wrong, yet again. 46 & 2 is a reference to the # of chromosomes in a human (23 pairs and 1 gender pair), and the song is about the corruption of the human form and it grows and decays in this world. But hey, don't let me stop you on your mission, son!

Care for an * with that, Captain Sensor?

Grow some Ni and we'll talk.


Honestly, it sounded more S than T. The metaphors were too physical.

I wouldn't call them "impersonal," so much as overly cathartic and Fi-ish sounding.

This is what I think of as impersonal Ni:

The last lyrics you posted are still a bunch of moralizing. NTs don't tend to write about that.
 

nozflubber

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whatever you say admiral S, the song is obviously about the tug and pull of nature and nurture on each other. And if what YOU'RE doing is Ni, then I'll gladly stay the fuck away and maintain ignorance.

Captain S, out.
 

redacted

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so wrong, yet again. 46 & 2 is a reference to the # of chromosomes in a human (23 pairs and 1 gender pair), and the song is about the corruption of the human form and it grows and decays in this world. But hey, don't let me stop you on your mission, son!

You're right, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.
 

Athenian200

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The last lyrics you posted are still a bunch of moralizing. NTs don't tend to write about that.

If you think that's moralizing, then... argh.

I believe that you're actually describing Ne, Fi, or maybe even Ti...

NTs have extremely pathetic and ridiculous sorts of emotions that bury their intellect, then. Fine, call Ni whatever you want. :rolli:

I take satisfaction in knowing that you'd never understand it in a million years.
 

Shimmy

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Such a haters thread, I'm not going to bother giving a response to all the individual posts. I will just generally say that Maynard James Keenan is an intelligent man. He knows what he writes about, and he knows how to write it. If things are interpretable multiple ways, it's probably because he wants it that way.

Adding to that I must say that forty six & 2, and lateralus are two of my all time favorite Tool songs.
 

nightning

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Both of those are registering as "foreign" to me.

Changes does not come, it's either continuous or it's sudden.

Metamorphosis is described as the change in a butterfly, but Ni perception changes much faster. A sudden realization, then the flood gate opens and everything goes under til the waves die down and what reminds is the newly transformed. Where is the turning point in 46&2? Mind you I do like the song, but I don't think it's truly Ni.
 

simulatedworld

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If you think that's moralizing, then... argh.

I believe that you're actually describing Ne, Fi, or maybe even Ti...

NTs have extremely pathetic and ridiculous sorts of emotions that bury their intellect, then. Fine, call Ni whatever you want. :rolli:

I take satisfaction in knowing that you'd never understand it in a million years.

Uh huh. That's a real useful contribution there, champ; keep it up.


whatever you say admiral S, the song is obviously about the tug and pull of nature and nurture on each other. And if what YOU'RE doing is Ni, then I'll gladly stay the fuck away and maintain ignorance.

Captain S, out.

That's fine, but I'm going more for the symbolism behind it and looking at what personal revelations might have inspired writing about it, not the literal surface references to chromosome theory.

So, in this case you've gone straight for the S interpretation while I've gone for the N one.

Not that that's bad.
 

heart

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I used to say INTJ for Maynard but now I actually think pissy INFJ maybe?

Hard to say.

INTJ with same subtype as Bruno, the heretic mystic. Deep Ni-Fi connection there. A highly individualistic type of mindset.

EDIT TO ADD: I see the lyrics in 46 & 2 here (I'd probably never actually listen to this type of music) as being profoundly deep with layered meaning. It's about the corrupting action of the corruprting world on the individual human self/soul/persona...whatever name you want to give it, no matter how we strive with our individual thoughts, feelings, insights and actions in our earthly life--- just all that we strive for and are in our lives--- death and decay await us all in the end.

Nozflubber is correct in that he's using the symbolism of DNA and it's decay. I see it as a Ni-Fi statement about the individual and the corruption of physical life. There are deeper issues of DNA being the code to our individuality here in this world and yet it is also the timekeeper to how long we get to hang onto it before we return to primordial soup. There's also issues about our shadows, human duality, duality of life and death, growth and decay.
 

Nocapszy

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You're right, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

there's plenty else which does make him wrong though.
i assure you it has nothing to do with Ni nor does any of their songs or any one written by any other notable musician.

sw is probably high, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out you are too.
 

simulatedworld

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there's plenty else which does make him wrong though.
i assure you it has nothing to do with Ni nor does any of their songs or any one written by any other notable musician.

sw is probably high, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out you are too.

lol good read, I was; however, I do know that MJK is also a student of Jung himself, as I'm sure you can find in interviews.

As far as 46+2, though--I said Ni because he's critiquing his own mistakes/seeking self-betterment through expansion of perspectives. This seems to be a running theme with him...what would you say the song is about?

Come to think of it, any song which involves pushing perspectives by questioning the fundamental bases for our views of reality could easily be described as "about gaining Ni." Break on through to the other side, anybody? (Not saying anyone's writing about the actual Jungian concept of Ni, just that lots of musicians write about ideas relating to it.)

Speaking of Tool--this crazy ENFP friend of mine out in Utah knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy and has somehow managed to schmooze his way into a limo ride with the band, stocked with Cristal as well as Maynard's wine...he apparently owns a vineyard.

I'm pretty interested to see how those guys will respond to an ENFP bubbling over with fanboy excitement. teehee.
 

Athenian200

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As far as 46+2, though--I said Ni because he's critiquing his own mistakes/seeking self-betterment through expansion of perspectives. This seems to be a running theme with him...what would you say the song is about?

Sounds like plain ol' Ti and Ne to me. Ni isn't about expanding existing perspectives, it's about inventing them and switching between them.
 

simulatedworld

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Sounds like plain ol' Ti and Ne to me. Ni isn't about expanding existing perspectives, it's about inventing them and switching between them.

Semantics. I was referring to expanding one's own total perspective on the universe, which clearly involves inventing new perspectives.

This Lenore quote is what made me think of Ni:

"Introverted Intuitions are not really ideas. They're like trains at the edge of articulated knowledge. You can't claim them or advocate them. You put on a hat, grab hold of a boxcar door, and see where they go."

Notice that nowhere in the song does he ever explicitly state what it is that he's realized--he can't. Ne is much more easily expressed in terms of describing exactly what it is that you've realized.

46+2 sounds like his mind is suddenly tearing down a lot of old erroneous ideas ("insecure delusions") and questioning the basis for all of his understanding because the process of his perception itself may have been misleading.

What is more Ne+Ti about that than Ni+Fe/Te?


P.S.,

It's moralizing because its fundamental theme is lamenting an amoral world. Crime pays...but it shouldn't. NTs aren't amoral; we just don't usually write about that sort of thing. It's very NFJ.
 
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