Matrix 4

[Totenkindly]

To be honest, i haven't bothered much with this because Revolutions (Matrix 3) was such a mess -- a film of the sort that diminishes rather than improves the ones that came before it.

So I can't say I was happy to hear that Lana Wachowski was bringing back a fourth film -- and with Keanu Reeves and Carrie-Anne Moss. I mean, they're dead, right?

But it sounds like most of the cast is back, which makes no sense to me unless they're doing something stupid like a 7th iteration of the Matrix, and having it be a literal incarnation. (Which I think is dumb. I never pictured prior Neo's looking like Keanu Reeves. To me, they were incarnations of The One, rather like Aang from Avatar.) But then again, Morpheus isn't coming back either. So I have no idea what their angle is.

Normally there are teaser trailers out, but the only one I found (which doesn't bode well) has about 3 seconds of maybe new footage amid 70 seconds of trailer torn from The Matrix. This is supposed to release in December 2021.

The only thing that sounds positive is that only Lana is working this film (out of the two of them), and her cowriters are David Mitchell (author of Cloud Atlas book and worked on the script) and another writer with bona fide book credits. So she actually has decent writers to make the dialogue better, and I actually like Cloud Atlas which I found to rise above the sum of its flaws. So is there hope at least for better writing?

Pretty much the article I found has not much more information.

Matrix 4: Trailer, Release Date, Plot & News to Know | CBR

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I would rather see a reboot. This could be done without erasing the lore established in the previous films. Just make it a new iteration of the Matrix with a completely new cast. You can tell a completely new story, while making nods to the old story, and it would still technically be a sequel (unless they go the prequel route and set it in an earlier iteration). But I'd want it to be a fresh variation, not a beat-for-beat remake. The original film is so specific to 1999 american cultural sensibilities. It's escapist fantasy for 1990s cubicle culture. Doing that same thing might not play the same in the 2020s. I like what the original did for the cyberpunk genre. I hope this one doesn't just repeat that black trenchcoat and green glow aesthetic though.

It really just feels like a cashgrab, since we're entering the peak of a 90s nostalgia phase now (80s nostalgia has been big for a while, but I think that is waning a bit. Nostalgia capitalization phases seem to occur about 20-30 years after any given decade has passed. Remember how there was a brief trend of movies set in the 50s but made in the 80s, followed by a trend of 60s historical dramas in the 90s? I'm dreading when we enter the 2000s nostalgia phase, because I can't think of much that was particularly exciting or interesting in popular culture of that decade)

 

[Totenkindly]

Like I said, I don't see any indication in the films or in the accompanying lore that the Architect was lying. His character flaw is hubris... thinking that his viewpoint is the only one that matters and thus the correct one. He even admitted his early attempts to design the system failed, although he sloughed it off as it being the fault of the inferior fleshbags.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Can't be worse than Star Wars so it's got that going for it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Like I said, I don't see any indication in the films or in the accompanying lore that the Architect was lying. His character flaw is hubris... thinking that his viewpoint is the only one that matters and thus the correct one. He even admitted his early attempts to design the system failed, although he sloughed it off as it being the fault of the inferior fleshbags.

Yeah. His final line is my favorite thing in the third movie.

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Can't be worse than Star Wars so it's got that going for it.

If you're ripping off Ken Palpatine (from a series of books so bad they were never considered canon) you've got problems.

 

[Totenkindly]

Ultimate Crossover:

We go into the theater for Matrix 4 and it opens with John Wick realizing he can see the digital stream behind all things. It's all been a simulation, even his poor dog dying.

Gun Fu really gets crazy at that point.

Welcome to John Wick Matrix 4.

 

[Abcdenfp]

I would like to be more about what happens after , and maybe Neo comes back like yoda does in spirit form. Perhaps its about what happens "outside" the matrix?

 

[Totenkindly]

Still kinda wishing Revolutions involved a matrix within a matrix. That was the big fan guess before the film released... to a substantial gasp embodying "WTF".

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Yeah. His final line is my favorite thing in the third movie.

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If you're ripping off Ken Palpatine (from a series of books so bad they were never considered canon) you've got problems.

I wonder if the name Sheev is still considered canon

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I wonder if the name Sheev is still considered canon

I think it is...

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

What if Kid was The One? He did survive dying in The Matrix after all.

Trinity was with the wrong guy

 

[Totenkindly]

What if Kid was The One? He did survive dying in The Matrix after all.

Trinity was with the wrong guy

He was a little too young for her.
But not if it's a decade later or more and she comes back at her prior age.

"I envy you... but what you have is not fated to last." True, but for reasons we did not understand.
"Matrix 4 -- The Kid Horns in," it's a new romantic triangle unless the film is going to celebrate polyamory.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

He was a little too young for her.
But not if it's a decade later or more and she comes back at her prior age.

"I envy you... but what you have is not fated to last." True, but for reasons we did not understand.
"Matrix 4 -- The Kid Horns in," it's a new romantic triangle unless the film is going to celebrate polyamory.

I get the Kid mixed up in my head with the one who played Elan Sleazebaggano (Mouse); I forget that they are different characters.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I get the Kid mixed up in my head with the one who played Elan Sleazebaggano (Mouse); I forget that they are different characters.

you don't want to sell me crack.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

you don't want to sell me crack.

I don't want to sell you crack.

 

[Totenkindly]

Still not really sure what to make of this film.

After how the story went with films 2 & 3, it's hard to muster up true excitement for film 4 since it is bringing back two characters that shouldn't be around, yet if it is a sequel film it seems to be taking the worst interpretation of the Matrix cycles possible with actual specific people being reincarnated. I just don't get the angle on this and would have preferred to see a film with completely new cast or a continuation of the old film with no one showing up who has moved on.

still, I can't tell what is going on from the trailer itself so now I'm curious as to the actual angle. I've also heard it is launching off the first film and not the second two, but that's confusing to me in terms of continuity and where this fits. So I'm feeling guarded about the entire thing. On the other hand, Mitchell (who wrote Cloud Atlas and his own translation to screen) is one of the cowriters so.... Maybe there's a chance it is an improvement?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I bet it was a case of the creators wanting to go in a new direction with new faces, but the suits were nervous that people might not want to see it without the star power and/or recognizability of at least a few of the original cast.

Or maybe the new film will try to explain this away by saying that because the machines create test tube babies from scratch, there are certain recurring templates that randomly reappear in human physical and genetic makeup. It might not be intentional on the machines' part, which will make it all the more eerie if these "new" characters show up with similar personality traits and roles in the story. It does make for some neat possibilities and kind of tie into the mystical side of the story. Even more interesting would be if they were intentionally created by the machines for some purpose in fulfilling one of the machines' or architect's plans.

I like Keanu, he's got a certain charisma and likeability despite his obvious limits as an actor, and it carries him a long way. So I guess I have mixed feelings about these actors reappearing when their characters should be dead.

It does all feel a little cash grabby, but who knows, that doesn't mean it won't be cool.

 

[Totenkindly]

I bet it was a case of the creators wanting to go in a new direction with new faces, but the suits were nervous that people might not want to see it without the star power and/or recognizability of at least a few of the original cast.

Or maybe the new film will try to explain this away by saying that because the machines create test tube babies from scratch, there are certain recurring templates that randomly reappear in human physical and genetic makeup. It might not be intentional on the machines' part, which will make it all the more eerie if these "new" characters show up with similar personality traits and roles in the story. It does make for some neat possibilities and kind of tie into the mystical side of the story. Even more interesting would be if they were intentionally created by the machines for some purpose in fulfilling one of the machines' or architect's plans.

I like Keanu, he's got a certain charisma and likeability despite his obvious limits as an actor, and it carries him a long way. So I guess I have mixed feelings about these actors reappearing when their characters should be dead.

It does all feel a little cash grabby, but who knows, that doesn't mean it won't be cool.

I honestly don't have any idea, It could be cool, sure; it could be a dud.
The Wachowskis have had their share of both unfortunately.

It all is really coming down to story and script. I think the failure of Revolutions primarily can be blamed on script (there's a lot of stuff that seems incomprehensive on first view at least) + the abrupt scene cuts that didn't give the movie enough time to breathe. The high-level story outline had some great elements, but execution was very uneven / not connecting with the audience.

I am hoping the involvement of Mitchell and Hemon will improve the writing/story.

My son and I rewatched The Matrix the other night and both of us were pretty happy with it. We will rewatch the other two films before this one comes out. I still enjoy Reloaded.

 

[Hellena Handbasket]

 

[JocktheMotie]

I saw the Matrix in 6th or 7th grade, and it's not an understatement to say that it changed my life. Reloaded was unsatisfying despite some good scenes (the movie seemed too aware of itself and its predecessor's (harhar) reception) and the Zion aspect to the story added significant "story heaviness" to the entire universe so the structure was buckling somewhat, only to really collapse with Revolutions. Visually the movies always looked fantastic, but character and motivation and the sensibility of effects and their causes fell apart as the trilogy's runtime dragged on.

With the trailer coming out, I rewatched every movie. The Matrix, as always, just a 10/10 film. You can sort of see the dorky/cringe dialogue and elements that would infect the sequels but there is such a purpose to the story propelling everyone from one scene/revelation to the next, and none of the obtuse obfuscation in terms of dialogue that might seem deep on the surface but really just hides flimsy structure.

Reloaded was really in love with itself, which sucks, because with a tighter edit you might be able to remove a bunch of the ridiculousness. Remove a lot of the Matrix scenes and you're better off, but that probably would have made people really mad. The people want to see Neo kick some ass! Remove the fight with Seraph, the Hallway Smith Fight, find some other way to get Trinity in danger rather than some weird Rube Goldberg Machine of turning off the building power and you've got a tighter script. The Merovingian was an interesting look into this 3rd world of exiled programs but their conversation dragged and didn't have a lot of purpose. If the Matrix was released in today's IP environment, the Merovingian and Exliles are definitely getting their own spin-off. And of course, can't forget the series lowpoint, the orgasm cake. The Smith Fight, the Freeway Chase, and the Architect climax are bangers though, however the former falls into the Uncanny Valley for a bit too long, but I liked Smith's reveal as the virus he compared humanity to in the first film.

Oddly enough, I enjoyed the Zion scenes in Revolutions the most. It makes the most sense. After The Matrix, Neo has mastered being plugged in. It's not a real arena for conflict anymore. It all just becomes an interface for trying to figure out what to do in the Real World, so a lot of the Matrix scenes just drag or feel really superfluous. They got dealt a bad hand having to switch actors for The Oracle but her function in this movie didn't help. She knew what had to happen all along (the Neo/Smith integration) and just dropped stupid crumbs the whole time while Neo and the audience struggled to grasp it. Rama Kandra's and Sati's scene was a help but again, a bit too much tell and don't show. [Seeing Sati in the trailer is just WILD though]. Like I said, I thought the Zion scenes and defense of the dock worked the best in the entire movie. On rewatch, I was thoroughly bored with everything Matrix and Neo related, and really locked in to the real world stuff. It gave me a Pacific Rim vibe.

Damn. Back to the trailer. I love how it started. It has this, new, instagram filter shine to it rather than the corporate monotony tone that's befitting of a late 90's world. This Matrix feels modern, which is a great sign. I like the idea of Neo seeing a therapist. I'm struck by this idea of therapists being the new "agents" that collect any kind of deviance/dissatisfaction with the world and reorient the minds back into the collective, back into "normality." If anything, once again, my expectation is a Reloaded-quality movie. Great visuals, some great scenes, but ultimately I'm not sure the story structure is going to be strong enough.

I will say, I'm glad this is here. I think Lana has a lot to say, as a lot has happened in the past 20 years, both in the world and to her personally. I really liked the attempt at Cloud Atlas, and I really was in to Sense8, hell, I even found things to like about Jupiter Ascending. The Wachowski's have big ideas, they think deeply about the human experience, and frankly they have delved into that human experience enough for me to always listen to what they have to say. There's a world where this is really good. And one where it's sort of meh and that's fine.