Random Movie Thoughts Thread

[Totenkindly]

I think most people will identify with him even if they aren't willing to admit it.

Considering the reality of living in a cramped sub-like vessel eating flavorless gruel or living in a giant cave in constant fear of destruction by killer machines, it's understandable some would be tempted to return to the Matrix. I'm frankly shocked the free humans didn't have to deal with more traitors like him trying to get back to the matrix. Or maybe they did but we just haven't heard about those people.

On the other hand, Zion throws the best raves and people seem pretty sexually liberal, so I can see the appeal in both choices. I assume the food is also much better in Zion than it is on the hover ships, so one could just choose to live out their days in the caverns going to the giant hippie raves. I guess Cypher just didn't like techno music and eating cave fungus salads.

He seems kinda MAGA hat taste-wise. I don't think he woulda voted for 'bama.

Another movie I’d forgotten about was To Die For. Generally never been a fan of Nicole Kidman but she is great here. Really cold and chilling, she portrays a sociopathic narcissistic so great in this.

Pretty good cast all around.

God. That's a blast from the past. I did see it, just YEARS ago -- I remember liking it and she was just so manipulative in that film.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

He seems kinda MAGA hat taste-wise. I don't think he woulda voted for 'bama.

True, but Morpheus must have seen something in him to go through the effort of liberating him--as it's explained, a small percentage of people plugged in will have a sense of living in a dream, making them ideal candidates for liberation; the interesting thing that the movies don't really get into about this is the risk that even with those special cases, some aren't going to take kindly to being unplugged and having their entire reality shattered--I remember Animatrix touching on this a bit, though it's been a while and I really need to rewatch that one. I would be curious to see where he became so disillusioned. Like, did it have to do with Trinity rejecting his romantic interests, or was it just a slow burn that took place over a long period of time? I'm curious exactly how long he'd been in contact with Smith, whether he initiated contact with Smith first or vice versa, etc. Was he always a self-serving opportunist waiting for an out, or did he start out as an idealist believing in the cause? Gotta wonder, considering how much effort and time Morpheus seems to put into vetting potential candidates for red pilling.

God. That's a blast from the past. I did see it, just YEARS ago -- I remember liking it and she was just so manipulative in that film.

Yeah, and it came at a good time, right in the wake of a lot of high profile real world stories such as the whole Buttafucco-Fisher triangle, etc.

There was a subtext of the shit women deal with in Hollywood and the Media in general, but it's kind of glossed over. I could almost see Kidman's character as a victim in her own right, if not for her just being such a manipulative asshole in the movie.

 

[Totenkindly]

True, but Morpheus must have seen something in him to go through the effort of liberating him--as it's explained, a small percentage of people plugged in will have a sense of living in a dream, making them ideal candidates for liberation; the interesting thing that the movies don't really get into about this is the risk that even with those special cases, some aren't going to take kindly to being unplugged and having their entire reality shattered--I remember Animatrix touching on this a bit, though it's been a while and I really need to rewatch that one. I would be curious to see where he became so disillusioned. Like, did it have to do with Trinity rejecting his romantic interests, or was it just a slow burn that took place over a long period of time? I'm curious exactly how long he'd been in contact with Smith, whether he initiated contact with Smith first or vice versa, etc. Was he always a self-serving opportunist waiting for an out, or did he start out as an idealist believing in the cause? Gotta wonder, considering how much effort and time Morpheus seems to put into vetting potential candidates for red pilling.

Those are good thoughts. I think I was speaking more from "quick global perception" of his personality and where he is now and how it fits together. Wouldn't be surprised if he was an SP e6 type.

Usually they are taken out of the matrix when young (Neo was actually "too old" and a rare case, although he looks to be about 25, maybe 30.) So the personality is still forumulating. Obviously Cypher seemed like a viable candidate... and maybe he was. I would assume he was intelligent, he did not like being tricked/lied to about reality, and so naturally pushed back on the system.

It's all conjecture, we don't know unless there's extra narrative elsewhere to fill it out. But I could easily see him coming out and rejecting the matrix, then over time having bad experiences (bad food, constantly hiding for his life, getting nowhere, being rejected by Trinity, and so on) which lead to strong feelings of animosity. Even if the system lied to him, which led him to reject it, this new world ended up being even worse and at least he felt good back in the Matrix -- he had a future there, versus this ongoing experience that had failed him in so many ways. I think also since they had ACTIVELY promised enlightenment and change and a better life, Zion came off as liars and even more despicable than the machines, who at least gave him good things even if he was being used by them.

So generalized animosity towards the machines, but very personal animosities towards the rebels, focused on specific rejections and broken promises. That is how I would write it based on the portrayal and the first film. I would even suspect that Cypher sought out the machines -- he was smart enough, he could read the code as it scanned, and he basically became a mole (anonymous or not) for the machines.... and then realized he had something her could barter with when Neo came along. Like, "holy shit, there's a guy here who might ACTUALLY be the one."

Good questions, honestly. It's really interesting to consider. it's one of the best stories the Matrix never really told. I find him more interesting than Neo.

THought Switch could have been interesting -- my thought is s/he was going to be the trans representation within the film. Was different gendered inside and outside the matrix, the film backs off that but does create a somewhat enby character at least in appearance. It was kind of a tragic end for things to conclude as they did.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Those are good thoughts. I think I was speaking more from "quick global perception" of his personality and where he is now and how it fits together. Wouldn't be surprised if he was an SP e6 type.

Usually they are taken out of the matrix when young (Neo was actually "too old" and a rare case, although he looks to be about 25, maybe 30.) So the personality is still forumulating. Obviously Cypher seemed like a viable candidate... and maybe he was. I would assume he was intelligent, he did not like being tricked/lied to about reality, and so naturally pushed back on the system.

It's all conjecture, we don't know unless there's extra narrative elsewhere to fill it out. But I could easily see him coming out and rejecting the matrix, then over time having bad experiences (bad food, constantly hiding for his life, getting nowhere, being rejected by Trinity, and so on) which lead to strong feelings of animosity. Even if the system lied to him, which led him to reject it, this new world ended up being even worse and at least he felt good back in the Matrix -- he had a future there, versus this ongoing experience that had failed him in so many ways. I think also since they had ACTIVELY promised enlightenment and change and a better life, Zion came off as liars and even more despicable than the machines, who at least gave him good things even if he was being used by them.

So generalized animosity towards the machines, but very personal animosities towards the rebels, focused on specific rejections and broken promises. That is how I would write it based on the portrayal and the first film. I would even suspect that Cypher sought out the machines -- he was smart enough, he could read the code as it scanned, and he basically became a mole (anonymous or not) for the machines.... and then realized he had something her could barter with when Neo came along. Like, "holy shit, there's a guy here who might ACTUALLY be the one."

Good questions, honestly. It's really interesting to consider. it's one of the best stories the Matrix never really told. I find him more interesting than Neo.

THought Switch could have been interesting -- my thought is s/he was going to be the trans representation within the film. Was different gendered inside and outside the matrix, the film backs off that but does create a somewhat enby character at least in appearance. It was kind of a tragic end for things to conclude as they did.

So I was just googling for any possible backstory on Cypher but couldn't really find anything. However I did find a reference to "Cypherites" a sect of liberated humans in the Matrix Online game who wished to return to the matrix. The Wachowskis considered that game universe a canonical continuation of their films, so I guess we can say it's canon he wasn't the only one to hold his views.

Something only semi-related, I was thinking about the short "Matriculated" from the Animatrix and how it established that "real world" machines are sometimes taken and converted to the side of the freed humans. A really neat concept, because while we know some programs are friendly with humans, nothing in the live action films (unless I forgot some detail) really mentioned anything about this. I really love how Animatrix built the world up. The friendly machine scenario is almost like an inverse of Cypher working with the agents, as both scenarios involve Cypher/Rogue Machine being coaxed to their enemies' sides by the appeal of simulated worlds. Also easily the saddest short in that entire movie. Although World record and Detective Story are close seconds and thirds IMO. Come to think of it, that whole movie was a pretty big bummer.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I take reddit fan theories with a grain of salt, but I did see an interesting theory about Cypher. To summarize, they speculated that Morpheus may have originally thought Cypher was a candidate to be The One. This could explain a couple of things.

assuming his character is the same age as the actor, he also would've been freed as an adult, going against the general rule about only freeing the young. Joe Pantoliano is even older than Keanu Reeves, and Cypher says he was freed 9 years before the Matrix. Neo is what, like 25-early 30s when liberated, and if we assume Cypher is at least 10 years older than Neo, he would've been an adult when freed. Why would Morpheus free an adult knowing the risks, unless he thought he might have found The One? Unless that rule was a rather recent thing. This previous finding of what he thought to be The One, only to realize nope he didn't find him, and in addition had risked a lot in liberating an adult, could also explain why some in Zion were very skeptical about Morpheus' beliefs and continued insistence on finding the real One. They're seeing Morpheus find one false One after another, so by the time he finds Neo, the skeptics like Commander Lock want to hear nothing about it.

Further, this could explain the seeds of Cypher's bitter feelings, having been previously told he might be The One, only to later find out this was bunk. Hell, maybe trinity, having been told she would love The One, might have tried flirting with Cypher or iniotiating something, only to break it off once it was decided he wasn't the one (hell, she probably just wasn't feeling it, and so this could have contributed to Morpheus realizing he was not the One, assuming trinity told him about what the oracle told her). Even more salt in the wound after seeing Neo found and the woman he loves almost immediately start to fall for the real One, while Cypher had been reduced to little more than one of Zion's rank-and-file soldiers. For someone who cares so much about his status, that would be pretty crushing to his ego.

I strongly doubt the Wachowskis had something like this in mind, but an interesting theory nonetheless

* * * *

I'm imagining a prequel where Cypher takes a similar trip to see the Oracle, only she actually tells him "yes, it's you." This is kind of in character with how she tells Neo "nope, not you", and I could see it almost being a test. Once he hears this, it goes to his head, and of course it's in his increasing narcissism and sense of self-importance that Morpheus eventually realizes Cypher cannot be the one, as he cares more about his own status than anything else. When Cypher realize Morpheus has lost faith in him, this of course makes him bitter, but otherwise he continues being loyal. It's only when Morpheus brings his new prodigal son on board that Cypher snaps and decides to betray his crew.

For all we know, maybe Cypher is one of the reasons they established the age limit rule in the first place.

 

[Totenkindly]

The Emperor’s New Groove came out at exactly the wrong time - Polygon

I saw this in the theater when it came out, I was pleasantly surprised and thought it was hilarious. Still one of the funniest animated films I've seen and a welcome break to the Disney grandiosity of the time period. But yeah, I guess maybe it showed just a bit too early. Shrek really reaped the shift in zeitgeist. I think I really liked Shrek a lot at the time but I think the animation is better in TENG and the story flows more like a real script, Shrek tends to just feel like a bunch of sarcastic jokes threaded together into a film. (Still enjoyable, though.)

I think TENG is a better film altogether than The Road to El Dorado (it's better written), but I've enjoyed revisiting that film as well in recent times -- mostly because I filter it now through Dungeons & Dragon eyes: It perfectly exemplifies what happens when a Rogue and a Bard get together in a campaign setting, and Kline and Branagh riff off each other well.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Was he always a self-serving opportunist waiting for an out, or did he start out as an idealist believing in the cause? Gotta wonder, considering how much effort and time Morpheus seems to put into vetting potential candidates for red pilling.

I think it's more interesting if he started off as an idealist and then became an opportunist, but that might be harder to write.

I think earlier drafts of the script for the first film mentioned that Morpheus had been wrong before about people being "the one."

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I think it's more interesting if he started off as an idealist and then became an opportunist, but that might be harder to write.

I think earlier drafts of the script for the first film mentioned that Morpheus had been wrong before about people being "the one."

It would have been an interesting subplot but ultimately I can understand why they moved away from it.

 

[Totenkindly]

This is TV, but I hadn't quite caught up with the Community D&D tv episode when Netflix pulled it this weekend (because Chang is a doofus and cosplays a Drow in a table-top session, which they decided to categorize as "blackface" and pull it).

They made up a pretty module cover from AD&D 2nd ed format (any long-time players would have immediately placed the timeline), but then used the Queen of the Demonweb Pits interlocking diagonals maze map because they were too lazy to make a new one. (The map is laying on the table in front of Abed but you can still see parts of it.)

BUSTED.

 

[Totenkindly]

Recommend watching "The Platform," it's kind of a "Parasite meets Cube" film. Spanish, so it is subtitled. Movie's on Netflix. Thriller/Horror but with lots of ideas in it.

It was just put together well on a low budget, but it's pretty intense and gruesome in spots, dealing with the random "have's vs have not's." Really makes you think, deals with the erosion of the unregulated commons.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I did a side-by-side comparison of Nick Castle's and Dick Warlock's performances in (respectively) Halloween I and Halloween II. Castle is a bit brisker (note when he almost jogs down the stairs after Laurie), whereas Warlock is slower, and more mechanical (note when he walks slowly down the stairs, not even looking down). Castle is thinner and lankier, Warlock a little stockier. This can be seen in how they look in the mask (the same mask was used in both movies)--it sort of hangs off of Castle, but Warlock fills out the mask to the point it appears to become Michael Myers' true face.

Castle's Myers is more stalking, Warlock's Myers is more calculating.

I think I prefer Warlock's performance and look, but overall I prefer the atmosphere of the first film.

 

[Totenkindly]

For all the bitching about evil Empire Disney taking over Star Wars, one thing they did do well was creating high-quality prints of the films.

Watching "A New Hope" on Disney+ currently (so it's UHD streaming), and I'm amazed at how good it looks and sounds considering the film came out almost 50 years ago. I've seen the film in DVD a lot and on TV and maybe bluray once, and the level of clarity and detail on the 4k streams is amazing. They didn't just run filters on it from what I can tell, they did a lot of touchups and manual work.

I have been impressed by all the quality transfers to 4K (note prior comments about Rogue One and The Last Jedi) and even to Bluray (typically the blurays of the later films outdo most bluray releases in general), and with the oldest films in the collection the differences would be most notable.

So I guess their tech teams should be commended, even aside from their issues in generating new content for the STar Wars franchise.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

For all the bitching about evil Empire Disney taking over Star Wars, one thing they did do well was creating high-quality prints of the films.

Watching "A New Hope" on Disney+ currently (so it's UHD streaming), and I'm amazed at how good it looks and sounds considering the film came out almost 50 years ago. I've seen the film in DVD a lot and on TV and maybe bluray once, and the level of clarity and detail on the 4k streams is amazing. They didn't just run filters on it from what I can tell, they did a lot of touchups and manual work.

I have been impressed by all the quality transfers to 4K (note prior comments about Rogue One and The Last Jedi) and even to Bluray (typically the blurays of the later films outdo most bluray releases in general), and with the oldest films in the collection the differences would be most notable.

So I guess their tech teams should be commended, even aside from their issues in generating new content for the STar Wars franchise.

Has there been any discussion of Disney releasing the original theatrical cuts? A simple remaster, just to clean up the prints, with no additional Special Edition footage or FX? If we can have multiple versions of Blade Runner and Oliver Stone's Alexander available, I don't see why they couldn't do this, unless Lucas had a clause in the contract when he sold LF that prohibited the rerelease of the original cuts.

I'd also like to see the holiday special remastered and released. They could market it the way Showgirls was marketed when it went to home video and DVD, as a so-bad-it's-good experience.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I want to know what's going on with that alternate cut of ROS I heard about a few months ago. Was that just a BS rumor with no basis in fact? I'd certainly be interested in watching to see if it improves the last half of the film at all.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

 

[Totenkindly]

Has there been any discussion of Disney releasing the original theatrical cuts? A simple remaster, just to clean up the prints, with no additional Special Edition footage or FX? If we can have multiple versions of Blade Runner and Oliver Stone's Alexander available, I don't see why they couldn't do this, unless Lucas had a clause in the contract when he sold LF that prohibited the rerelease of the original cuts.

I'd also like to see the holiday special remastered and released. They could market it the way Showgirls was marketed when it went to home video and DVD, as a so-bad-it's-good experience.

I haven't looked actively but I have not run across any such plans. While I think there were some benefits to touching up the special effects, I think the original theatrical cuts were very important not just for nostalgia but in fact for the awards they won in the special effects arena -- maybe they are outdated now, but at the same time they were cutting edge / beyond what we'd seen before for that time period. It's like if Cameron kept tinkering with T2 aside from just the director's cut additions, replacing all the morphing tech with new tech. So having a cut of the originals plus the final cuts would be nice.

I think I have contributed my thoughts before; I am keen on some of the changes (like doing the cutout windows in Cloud City, it is what it should have always looked like rather than stark windowless interiors), or adding celebration shots at end of RotJ. There's other shit that really annoys me, like messing with Greedo shootout or swapping in Christensen (while not updating Kenobi -- I mean, it's not only suckass, but it's also inconsistently done).

I actually ended up plowing through TESB and through jabba in RotJ on Disney+. My earlier comments hold about the image quality, although on occasion (as I've heard about 4K at times), there are shots that now look fake because the quality is too good. Like, the bantha horns can look like they're made of plastic... probably because they were.

Saw this earlier:
Disney Ditches 4K "Empire Strikes Back" Re-Release - Dark Horizons

Apparently they were gonna release to theater, but not now.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I haven't looked actively but I have not run across any such plans. While I think there were some benefits to touching up the special effects, I think the original theatrical cuts were very important not just for nostalgia but in fact for the awards they won in the special effects arena -- maybe they are outdated now, but at the same time they were cutting edge / beyond what we'd seen before for that time period. It's like if Cameron kept tinkering with T2 aside from just the director's cut additions, replacing all the morphing tech with new tech. So having a cut of the originals plus the final cuts would be nice.

I think I have contributed my thoughts before; I am keen on some of the changes (like doing the cutout windows in Cloud City, it is what it should have always looked like rather than stark windowless interiors), or adding celebration shots at end of RotJ. There's other shit that really annoys me, like messing with Greedo shootout or swapping in Christensen (while not updating Kenobi -- I mean, it's not only suckass, but it's also inconsistently done).

I actually ended up plowing through TESB and through jabba in RotJ on Disney+. My earlier comments hold about the image quality, although on occasion (as I've heard about 4K at times), there are shots that now look fake because the quality is too good. Like, the bantha horns can look like they're made of plastic... probably because they were.

Saw this earlier:
Disney Ditches 4K "Empire Strikes Back" Re-Release - Dark Horizons

Apparently they were gonna release to theater, but not now.

I have mixed feelings on the SE fx and Easter eggs. I’m not a purist by any means (my favorite version of A New Hope is a fan edit that’s essentially a hybrid of the 1977/1997 cuts) though having a remastered and restored cut of the original theatrical cuts available is important when we want to see the films in the context of the years they were made, essentially as historical artifacts to understand the culture of 1977-1983.

However, when I want to see them in the context of being part of a larger narrative, the SEs are just fine. There’s things I’d take out, like Greedo shooting first, Jabba in ANH, So g and dance number in jabba’s palace, some pointless changes like redubbing a new V/O for “who are you?!” before C3P0 is shot in ESB, Hayden ghost in ROTJ, Vader saying “noooooo” when Luke’s getting zapped (David Prowse did a remarkable job of conveying Vader’s conflicted feelings just fine in that scene).

Things I’d leave in:

-Improved lightsaber effects.
-The Outrider departing Mos Eisley
-Windows in TESB
-Celebration on different worlds at the end of ROTJ
-improved space battle fx in ANH

Things I’d add:

-Chewie has a medal in the final shot of ANH
-Easter egg referencing Rogue One in ANH

For some reason, the V/O change in TESB might bother me the most. It’s just one of those quirky little things about the original version that made me love the movie so much. If there’s anything that bothers me most about the SEs, it’s how they sanitized some of those quirky little details and moments I lived so much out of the originals.

10:46:

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Summing up why I have a love/hate relationship with the old school of professional film critics

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

This is a great movie, I’d put it in my personal top ten 80s teen movies

 

[Totenkindly]

-Chewie has a medal in the final shot of ANH

JFC.... yes. I just rewatched the original trilogy and he should have had one, and then we'd have avoided at least one piece of stupid bs in TROS.

EDIT: Put in good word with the Force for me, I am now halfway through TPM and will plow through the rest. My brain hurts. I haven't seen TPM or AotC for so long, there's stuff in the films that my brains is trying to tell me was added because I don't recall it... but then my son confirms it was always there.