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why was Vader obedient to Tarkin in Star Wars?

Doctor Cringelord

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The wholeinclusion of younglings in the first place makes the jedi order inherently sinister. I refuse to believe that parents across the galaxy are just like here take my magic mojo baby for your cult. :shrug:

Yeah that never really sat right with me either. In the case of Anakin being taken it sort of makes sense because he was a special case, sort of like the Dalai Lama being taken from his family to live in the Tibetan capital. But otherwise there should've been a minimum age requirement and even then the parents and child would both need to consent. Taking babies without a say and setting them on that life path without any say from them just seems to go against the whole worldview of the light side.

Perhaps there was a certain level of prestige that went along with being the family of someone who was taken to become a jedi. :shrug:
 

The Cat

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Yeah that never really sat right with me either. In the case of Anakin being taken it sort of makes sense because he was a special case, sort of like the Dalai Lama being taken from his family to live in the Tibetan capital. But otherwise there should've been a minimum age requirement and even then the parents and child would both need to consent. Taking babies without a say and setting them on that life path without any say from them just seems to go against the whole worldview of the light side.

Perhaps there was a certain level of prestige that went along with being the family of someone who was taken to become a jedi. :shrug:

It also bugs me that Annakin is presented as some kind of chosen one with a prophecy.

I like the idea of him as a hot shot freighter pilot who becomes a fighter ace in the clone wars, and hones his force powers while fighting along side General Kenobi against evil clones during one of the darkest times for the old republic since the Mandalorian Wars...
 

Doctor Cringelord

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It also bugs me that Annakin is presented as some kind of chosen one with a prophecy.

I like the idea of him as a hot shot freighter pilot who becomes a fighter ace in the clone wars, and hones his force powers while fighting along side General Kenobi against evil clones during one of the darkest times for the old republic since the Mandalorian Wars...

I think Lucas let all of the talk and praise about him creating some Joseph Campbell grand hero's journey story in the OT go to his head and so he kind of overdid it and was a little too obvious about it in the PT.


I seem to remember reading that when he was writing A New Hope, he tried to incorporate a lot of Campbellian stuff into it, then gave up, but then the final screenplay basically fit the hero's journey blueprint anyway. I suspect he constrained himself too much in writing the prequels, and that's partly why it feels a little too forced and formulaic. That, and he could've benefitted from letting a few experienced screenwriters do some rewrites to make the dialogue a little more organic.
 

Indigo Rodent

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Did the emperor tell him to obey Tarkin? Tarkin barks orders at Vader and doesn't seem one bit intimidated. Was Tarkin just stupid? Did the emperor purposefully keep his top guys a little distrustful of one another so they couldn't join together and topple him? Seems like some Michael Corleone level maneuvering and manipulation on the part of Palpy.

Based on Rogue One and A New Hope, it seems like Palpatine kept Vader on a pretty short leash until shit really got out of hand with the rebels. Like at most, he was given his own star destroyer and a private army of stormtroopers. My theory is that Vader was kept in the shadows and that most of his jobs prior to A New Hope had involved missions like hunting former Jedi, that sort of thing. Plus he probably had to spend a lot of time on lava world designing and building that sweet dream castle home.

Then after the Battle of Yavin Palpatine basically made Vader a Grand Admiral with his own fleet and super star destroyer at his disposal.


Another question, were Grand Admirals above or below Grand Moffs, or were they roughly equivalent in rank? Not sure if EU or other sources have ever clarified this. We see a guy at the Death Star conference meeting in a white uniform similar to what grand admirals wore, but I'm not sure what his rank or role there actually was. My assumption is that a Grand Moff was more like a military base commander, usually staying put in one place, while Grand Admirals tended to command mobile forces and move around more. But otherwise seems like they had pretty similar roles and positions in the hierarchy.
I think when the first movie was being made, Vader was far less important than later. He wasn't even Luke's father back then it was only added in second draft of Empire Strikes Back scenario a year after A New Hope was released.

kind of an analog to Nazi Germany. A lot of Hitler's generals held similar sentiments. Some wanted Rommel to lead in the event of a successful coup. I think Hitler's military decisions frustrated a lot of his generals particularly toward the end. Like, who is this failed anti-Semitic artist parading around in a uniform like he thinks he understands how military tactics work?
Blaming Hitler was how these generals were saving/creating their reputations after the war. Hitler listened to his generals and if he didn't it was mainly because of strategic concerns. For example they wanted to do something that could be effective tactically or operationally but strategic situation didn't allow. Hitler only fell apart in the very end.
Germany had a thing where it had generals highly focused on tactics because of the German way of war which was highly aggressive mobile warfare. So often they didn't think about strategic reasons behind Hitler's choices.

This was a way of waging war that worked great against Poland and France but failed in Soviet Union because of its size and the transport network favouring the defenders. As Germans progressed into Soviet Union, their logistics worsened while Soviet logistics improved.

I recommend you Robert M. Citino's lectures on youtube (and his books) to see more modern views on WWII history.

Of course the whole war was insanity. Compare how WWI and WWII ended. WWI ended with Russia knocked out and German armies still in France, Belgium and Luxemburg. It ended because Germans had sane leadership that could accept defeat. Well, relatively sane.

Anakin expressing his fascist views even back then. What an alt right incel. I honestly don't understand what Padme saw in him, based on how he's portrayed.
I don't know what Anakin is supposed to have to do with incels. He has no problems getting into relationship with a woman he wants. Also, the anti-incel hate propaganda is ridiculous. As if there were no tons upon tons of noncel domestic abusers, cheaters and rapists out there, as if typical non-gang mass shooting wasn't a noncel killing his partner or ex and children.
Vast majority of incels are ugly or suffering from autism or severe social anxiety or all of these, nothing to do with any political views.

He's a tall handsome charismatic guy who just has some seriously traumatic experiences like being a child slave, being separated from his mother who remained a slave and induced into a cult and then seeing his mother brutally murdered. Anakin doesn't even become abusive towards Padme until the very end when he force-chokes her.

Also, 42% of Trumps voters were women.
 

The Cat

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I still think it would have made more sense to make Palpatine his secret daddy. :shrug:
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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To answer the question, I think it's a combination of the fact that he respected Tarkin and the fact that the Emperor probably wanted to use to keep him in check. In the Vader comic, after ANH, the Emperor used Tagge (that dude with the sideburns in the conference room who evidently wasn't on the death star when it exploded). He definitely did not respect Tagge as much as Tarkin, though.

And hey, look, I found people from my favorite podcast discussing Star Wars, and yes, they even get a little political.

TFA 20: The Modern Automobile >> Star Wars Minute

I never really thought about the fact that in the real world, planes look far more all alike than the spaceships in Star Wars. There should be a most efficient design, but they eschewed that in order to identify factions. I like the dorky fight about Darth Vader's appearance in Rogue One. They don't like the Last Jedi, either, but I enjoy their takes regardless. I will FIGHT THEM on their rankinGgs. Though I do agree with the non-Chapo guy who said TPM was the best prequel (I just think it shows that George Lucas enjoyed making it more).
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I never really thought about the fact that in the real world, planes look far more all alike than the spaceships in Star Wars. There should be a most efficient design, but they eschewed that in order to identify factions. I like the dorky fight about Darth Vader's appearance in Rogue One. They don't like the Last Jedi, either, but I enjoy their takes regardless. I will FIGHT THEM on their rankinGgs. Though I do agree with the non-Chapo guy who said TPM was the best prequel (I just think it shows that George Lucas enjoyed making it more).

Say what you will about TPM, but it is an energetic film, far moreso than AOTC or ROTS.


I liked how the Imperial Tie designs show an obvious design lineage from the Jedi starfighters in the prequels. What confused me was why the X Wings seemed to be based on an Old Republic design, but why the Empire didn't follow that design lineage with their fighters. Would make more sense to follow the design of the ship flown by the troopers than it would to follow the design of the Jedi. Except in the case of Vader (who apparently had an all black version of his jedi starfighter before he got the fighter he used in ANH). Though I also seem to remember reading the Empire preferred Ties because they were cheaper to mass produce. The X Wing was a better ship, but probably cost more. Given that TIEs weren't hyperdrive capable like the X Wings, I also wonder if a purpose of using TIEs was to prevent lone troopers/pilots from easily deserting.
 

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I think when the first movie was being made, Vader was far less important than later. He wasn't even Luke's father back then it was only added in second draft of Empire Strikes Back scenario a year after A New Hope was released.

I'm aware of the real world reasons but I'm more interested in the potential in-universe reasons.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I still think it would have made more sense to make Palpatine his secret daddy. :shrug:

Not that it's considered canon but I thought there was an EU story suggesting Anakin was actually conceived as a direct result of experiments being conducted by Sheev and his master Darth Plagues. So in a weird way Palpy could be considered his daddy if you buy that story.It would certainly add another layer to their dynamic and further explain why Palpatine is so interested in Anakin (beyond the obvious reason of wanting to groom him to be his apprentice). Perhaps on some level, Palpatine did care about Anakin as more than just a pawn to achieve control of the galaxy.
 

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Vader was really just a gimp of sorts -- the Emperor shoved him in that black plastic suit, messed with him for years, then got bored and handed him off to Tarkin because they are all part of a BDSM dungeon group.

Vader might have rebelled but Tarkin never gave him the safe word. So all he could do was act out on those weaker than himself.

It's why we never saw Vader's face until both Tarkin and the Emperor were dead (well, ROS notwithstanding), the entire BDSM ring membership had been culled out and Vader was finally free to escape his black plastic suit/prison albeit at the very edge of death. I think it was the furry air around Endor that did him in, it was the one kink he was not prepared for.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I do like the part toward the end of Rogue One when the Imperial officers are like "the rebels are getting away" and Tarkin's like "Bring out the gimp" but the officers are like "but the gimp's asleep in his meditation chamber"
 

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Also, did sheev always keep an extra lightsaber hidden in his sleeve, or only when he anticipated danger? If the former, imagine a senate committee meeting or something and the lighsaber accidentally falling out of his sleeve. Wonder how he'd explain that one away.
 

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Also, did sheev always keep an extra lightsaber hidden in his sleeve, or only when he anticipated danger? If the former, imagine a senate committee meeting or something and the lighsaber accidentally falling out of his sleeve. Wonder how he'd explain that one away.

Simple. If someone calls him on it, he just asys "It's treason, then."
 

The Cat

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Well that's it I reckon Ed, Guess we gotta close the thread. Commissioner is on our ass. You're a loose Cannon Powell and I'm too old for this shit, so I guess.... only three or four more movies left in our franchise. :cry:
 

The Cat

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Also, did sheev always keep an extra lightsaber hidden in his sleeve, or only when he anticipated danger? If the former, imagine a senate committee meeting or something and the lighsaber accidentally falling out of his sleeve. Wonder how he'd explain that one away.

Basically this, but with a lightsaber.
 

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It's not necessarily pointless, but chances are there are inconsistencies in the presentations and/or only intimations of connections versus a coherent and strongly drawn vision for the character. IOW, be prepared to overlook some stuff as now extraneous or disconnected as far as the current presentation of the character goes.
 
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