Star Wars 9

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I read an interesting post on reddit where someone said that their head canon ending was TLJ, and this was just a Lego Freeplay mode expansion pack. As a defender (perhaps too strongly) of that film, I'm tempted to agree. I feel more closure to the series from the ending of that movie than the ending of this one. Sure, there are some big loose ends, but it works pretty well. Luke performs a heroic sacrifice, and I had a sense that the Jedi will come back (despite the title), if perhaps in a form quite unlike their prequel-era counterparts. I get less closure from TROS than I do from ROTJ.

Regarding ROS, unlike a lot of critics, I actually prefer the first half of the film. It's a fun, if occasionally dumb, romp through the galaxy on a kind of space Indiana Jones quest, with lots of moments that show a good understanding of what these movies should be. It's the scene aboard the Death Star wreckage where things start to become a mess. Starting from that point is where the bulk of my problems with the film lie. I'd rate the first half above TFA and Solo if below Rogue One and TLJ. The stuff after that brings the film to prequel level, though. We even get lots of dumb fan service and callbacks to stuff that I never gave a shit about, add nothing to the story, and make no sense. There's plenty of lame "hey, Yoda met Chewbacca in the Clone Wars" moments there. (Naturally, the only artifact from the OT that I actually gave a shit about from the OT is still MIA. )

When I think about rewatching ROS, I look forward to watching the first half, and expect to be extremely frustrated (or at least engage in a lot of eye-rolling) through the second half. I hope that the Director's Cut that is supposedly on the way will change my mind, but I'm not sure that

knowing the truth about Lando's daughter

can change my mind for the better. It also can't fix the problems with the second Death Star wreckage scene. That scene somehow manages to be both the best and worst scene in the film, and it's fitting that it marks the point where the film takes a turn for the worst. True...

I am your grandfather

was introduced before that, but it doesn't impact the story that much until the second half IIRC.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I got to see it in a theater that sells beer, so I was mildly tipsy. I enjoyed it, but did giggle at this aspect of the plot line...

Oh, noes! He's dead! Oh, wait... No, he's fine. I think that happened half a dozen times. It would make a great drinking game - every time someone DIDN'T die, take a swig.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I got to see it in a theater that sells beer, so I was mildly tipsy. I enjoyed it, but did giggle at this aspect of the plot line...

Oh, noes! He's dead! Oh, wait... No, he's fine. I think that happened half a dozen times. It would make a great drinking game - every time someone DIDN'T die, take a swig.

Naw, they definitely overdid that.

 

[Totenkindly]

I figure I'd rather just save the price of a ticket and stay home and drink as much as I want.

 

[Totenkindly]

Here, let me beat this battered and dying space horse for a few more minutes cuz I feel like it...

Star Wars 9: Colin Trevorrow's Script Was Full Of Shocking Story Choices

Oh look:
- A tense heist that actually matters
- An actual reason for Kylo to wear his mask again
- The Resistance is visibly squeezed as the Order tightens its grisp.
- The Knights of Ren actually are a threat instead of the equivalent of a rag-tag street gang.
- Kylo turns on his new dark force master
- Finn does something relevant, he starts an actual rebellion
- Hux is treated as a real character rather than a punch line.
- The ending feels more authentic rather than the fake redemptive romance.
- Ties to the kids from Last Jedi, wheee.

I mean, maybe not everything I'd want, but I'd feel like it was an actual story.



Are you guys rushing out in March to get your 9-disk "Skywalker Saga" 4K boxed set?

Yeah. No.
Sorry, not sorry.




Speaking of 4K, the Rogue One 4K drops in March too I think.

The thing is, I've watched some of the prequel + the new stuff on Bluray and as much as I can bitch about Lucas' storylines -- the technical image is pretty flawless. Revenge of the Sith looks amazing in bluray quality, in terms of color and level of detail, it was hard to believe it was not 4K. Rogue One got top marks for the bluray release, which is really nice.

It might make the 4K versions look "less than" just because any improvement is likely to be minuscule. I'm not sure an update is required.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I read an interesting post on reddit where someone said that their head canon ending was TLJ, and this was just a Lego Freeplay mode expansion pack. As a defender (perhaps too strongly) of that film, I'm tempted to agree. I feel more closure to the series from the ending of that movie than the ending of this one. Sure, there are some big loose ends, but it works pretty well. Luke performs a heroic sacrifice, and I had a sense that the Jedi will come back (despite the title), if perhaps in a form quite unlike their prequel-era counterparts. I get less closure from TROS than I do from ROTJ.

Regarding ROS, unlike a lot of critics, I actually prefer the first half of the film. It's a fun, if occasionally dumb, romp through the galaxy on a kind of space Indiana Jones quest, with lots of moments that show a good understanding of what these movies should be. It's the scene aboard the Death Star wreckage where things start to become a mess. Starting from that point is where the bulk of my problems with the film lie. I'd rate the first half above TFA and Solo if below Rogue One and TLJ. The stuff after that brings the film to prequel level, though. We even get lots of dumb fan service and callbacks to stuff that I never gave a shit about, add nothing to the story, and make no sense. There's plenty of lame "hey, Yoda met Chewbacca in the Clone Wars" moments there. (Naturally, the only artifact from the OT that I actually gave a shit about from the OT is still MIA. )

When I think about rewatching ROS, I look forward to watching the first half, and expect to be extremely frustrated (or at least engage in a lot of eye-rolling) through the second half. I hope that the Director's Cut that is supposedly on the way will change my mind, but I'm not sure that

knowing the truth about Lando's daughter

can change my mind for the better. It also can't fix the problems with the second Death Star wreckage scene. That scene somehow manages to be both the best and worst scene in the film, and it's fitting that it marks the point where the film takes a turn for the worst. True...

I am your grandfather

was introduced before that, but it doesn't impact the story that much until the second half IIRC.

In my head canon it's just the theatrical cuts of the OT films. Everything else is fan fiction.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Unrelated but the other day some co-worker made me feel really old. Conversation at lunch was about SW prequels and they said "are those the ones that came out when we were kids?"

I was already a senior in high school when episode 1 came out.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Unrelated but the other day some co-worker made me feel really old. Conversation at lunch was about SW prequels and they said "are those the ones that came out when we were kids?"

I was already a senior in high school when episode 1 came out.

Episode I came out when I was in 7th grade. It made me feel super old last year to realize that was now a 20 year old movie. It was almost as old as A New Hope was at the time.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Episode I came out when I was in 7th grade. It made me feel super old last year to realize that was now a 20 year old movie. It was almost as old as A New Hope was at the time.

Rub it in, whippersnapper

 

[Totenkindly]

Think how I feel after seeing Return of the Jedi in the theater.... I don't think I was in high school yet, so I'm thinking I did not see TESB since I would have needed a ride for that. I just remember being in our local back yards with the other neighborhood kids debating whether Darth was lying about his revelation.

I was already a senior in high school when episode 1 came out.

My oldest was only 4, so I think I went alone to these to the matinee and/or after work. (I did take him to see LotR though.)

Definitely the prequels were formative for him, but uggh.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I feel much the same about the movie as I did the first time, even though I was entirely sober.

The first half of the movie, I found myself thinking "hey, this is actually pretty fun; I love the chemistry of these characters and this crazy adventure they're on. This movie got unfairly dumped on."

Then the second half, I found myself thinking "yeah, this is a mess that kind of deserves to get dumped on, especially because it's supposed to be the grand finale." There are still things I like in that last half, but there are also a lot of really dumb things that are dumb enough and important enough that they're hard to overlook.

And yeah, the turning point is roughly the same, when it became obvious they never figured out how to get out of the situation Fisher's death put them in. That's about the point where my quibble with the movie starts being about more than a character's lightsaber.

I feel like Luke's ghost appearance was supposed to "correcct" "mistakes" the last movie made... but for the people who had a problem with that aspect of the last film, it actually makes Luke's character look worse. Luke says "he was wrong" and never once acknowledges the change of heart he had in the movie. It comes off like he was wrong up to the very end, which means that he lived the rest of his life being completely useless. The movie never once acknowledges Luke Skywalker's final act, which strikes me as a bigger slap to the legacy of that character than anything in the prior installment. The line about how "a Jedi's weapon deserves more respect" made me roll my eyes this time, too.


While TLJ was clever enough to try and reconcile the prequel era Jedi we saw with the ideal of them in the OT (and by extension the audience) while making it clear to viewers that there will be others (the kids at the end), ROS abandons that thread. It partially makes up for that by the hints about Finn being Force-sensitive (which were at one point more explicit), and possibly even Jannah's whole group (and this was something I did like). The epilogue doesn't really stick the landing, though. That last scene makes it seem like Rey becomes a hermit on Tattooine or something. I would have preferred with something that gave stronger hints towards the Jedi Order or the Republic being established. We didn't really need to return the homestead, espeically because we already did that in the prequels, and the location had no relevance for Rey. Why should the lightsabers be buried there?

I actually don't mind the Death Star Destroyers, and they're much less irritating to me in concept than Starkiller base, which ends up distracting from the more interesting plot of trying to find Skywalker.

Learning more about Sith mysticism is kinda cool. I like the look of Exegol a lot.

The way in which Palpatine is defeated is really dumb.

Rey not being "no one" is dumb. The idea of he struggling with her nature as a Palpatine falls flat here.

Lando having a secret daughter is dumb, even if it's barely in the movie. (I honestly chuckled in the theater at the end because I thought he was putting the movies on someone way younger; imagine my befuddlement when I learned later that was part of a deleted subplot where he was looking for his daughter.)

Showing massive fleets facing off each other for a final confrontation and then barely having them fight because of super-lightning is really, really dumb.

Having Ben finally turn to light and then having it be as irrelevant to the story as it becomes is really really dumb. Which is a shame, because the acting of Ridley and Driver in the final act almost allows me to look past that. Imagine what this could have been if the script wasn't really, really dumb.

I do find some poetry in him having the power to "stop the ones he cared about from dying" but being through the light, but maybe that wouldn't have worked better if Rey's "death" wasn't so arbitrary and dumb. I think they were trying to lean into a plot thread from Episode III about the force having the power to prevent death( which is why Palpatine quotes a line from that movie verbatim), but I don't think they leaned into that enough for Palpatine's resurrection to work (and I'm sure they didn't plan that in advance). Ultimately I think Duel of the Fates made the wiser choice by having Supreme Leader Ren as the big bad, with Hux as a kind of side villain, even if I did enjoy what Driver gave to the character here. I think with TFA, there's the possibility that he could be redeemed, but TLJ literally closes the door on that. That's why it's frustrating and dumb that it not only reverses that, but does so for essentially no reason. Ben Solo's redemption ultimately plays a pretty minimal role in the whole plot. He's present at Rey's side for a minute before being blasted into a hole. Some people think that people think that last scene with him was a last minute addition, a desperate attempt to course-correct because they realized how unsatisfying that was. It's to the credit of Driver that this manages to almost work in spite of the horrible writing.

(By the way, the leak I read before the movie came out got a lot of details right, but it also had Driver getting possessed by Palpatine in the second half of the movie, then getting exorcised and redeemed, then dying, then resurrected by Luke's ghost. I have no idea if this was an earlier draft of script or not, but it does give me some gratitude for showing me that we didn't get the dumbest possible version of the movie).

It's frustrating because I really like the characters in this trilogy and the chemistry they all have, and both they and the actors themselves deserved a better send off. I never expected much because the writer of Batman Vs. Superman was involved, but that doesn't make it any less disappointing.

 

[Riva]

Still mad they brought Palpatine back. That character was written and acted too well to be brought back like that to cover up a terrible triology plot. Lolz at secret son and granddaughter.

Don't script writers get paid well at Hollywood?

First Star Trek and then this.

The prequels were amazing compared to this crap- except for Jar Jar.

 

[Totenkindly]

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Lucas himself said he was the key to all of this.

 

[Totenkindly]

Star Wars Writer Claims He Was Removed As Website Contributor For Disliking The Rise of Skywalker - Star Wars Direct

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It's pretty worrisome that they aren't acknowledging the issues with the movie (even though the movie itself pandered to the dumbest complaints about the last film, including the ones that were outright toxic). I liked the first tow movies (to differing amounts) so I'm not prone to criticize things just because it isn't part of my nostalgia. But there are actual issues with how they wrapped things up. Rey's heritage and Palpatine's out-of-nowhere return aren't even my biggest issues. The ending is very unsatisfying , and becomes even more so when one considers that this was hyped up as the conclusion of everything that came before. Even if you addressed only the movie on it's own and not how it related to the other movies (my biggest gripe was making Skywalker's sacrifice seem meaningless which is way worse for the character than anything in TLJ), it has serious problems. The end battle is a tease, the way Palpatine is defeated is lame, and the conclusion of Driver's character arc fails on all kinds of levels. The actors are what make the second half of that movie have any rewatch value; they almost overcome the awful material they were given.

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah I dont blame the actors in the least... well, except for when they take it all personally and lash out at fans for not liking it.

 

[The Cat]

I'm not sure the fans matter as much to the franchise anymore. -_-

 

[Totenkindly]

Disney Resetting Star Wars; Erasing Last Jedi | Cosmic Book News

Oh FFS. The cows already left that barn...

"In the Season 4 episode 13 installment titled 'A World Between Worlds,' the concept of the Veil of The Force was introduced, a mystical dimension of The Force that connects all time and space," explains Doomcock. "I have received confirmation from two additional sources claiming that this is spot on -- that indeed LucasFilm realizes they have a massive problem on their hands, that the Star Wars franchise is all but dead, and despite Kathleen Kennedy's hatred of this idea, Lucasfilm is preparing to render the Sequel Trilogy null and void."

It's said that the events from The Force Awakens, Last Jedi, and Skywalker "will be removed from canon, isolated in their own alternate timeline and regarded as an Elseworlds-like installment under the label of Star Wars Legends."

So what Doomcock is explaining is that a Star Wars Multiverse will be created which will isolate the Disney Star Wars Trilogy as being a part of a separate universe that is not a part of the George Lucas original Star Wars films.

It's further noted that the plans are not set in place, as again Kathleen Kennedy is said to hate the idea and is said to be doing everything she can to crush it, as if "the plan comes to pass, everything that Kathleen Kennedy did with the Sequel Trilogy will be destroyed, tossed out and declared obsolete."

Did she do anything with the Sequel Trilogy? She sure didn't manage shit. It should have been a single cohesive story, not two different directors running roughshod over the plot outlines and counting coup on each other.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I feel much the same about the movie as I did the first time, even though I was entirely sober.

The first half of the movie, I found myself thinking "hey, this is actually pretty fun; I love the chemistry of these characters and this crazy adventure they're on. This movie got unfairly dumped on."

Then the second half, I found myself thinking "yeah, this is a mess that kind of deserves to get dumped on, especially because it's supposed to be the grand finale." There are still things I like in that last half, but there are also a lot of really dumb things that are dumb enough and important enough that they're hard to overlook.

And yeah, the turning point is roughly the same, when it became obvious they never figured out how to get out of the situation Fisher's death put them in. That's about the point where my quibble with the movie starts being about more than a character's lightsaber.

I feel like Luke's ghost appearance was supposed to "correcct" "mistakes" the last movie made... but for the people who had a problem with that aspect of the last film, it actually makes Luke's character look worse. Luke says "he was wrong" and never once acknowledges the change of heart he had in the movie. It comes off like he was wrong up to the very end, which means that he lived the rest of his life being completely useless. The movie never once acknowledges Luke Skywalker's final act, which strikes me as a bigger slap to the legacy of that character than anything in the prior installment. The line about how "a Jedi's weapon deserves more respect" made me roll my eyes this time, too.


While TLJ was clever enough to try and reconcile the prequel era Jedi we saw with the ideal of them in the OT (and by extension the audience) while making it clear to viewers that there will be others (the kids at the end), ROS abandons that thread. It partially makes up for that by the hints about Finn being Force-sensitive (which were at one point more explicit), and possibly even Jannah's whole group (and this was something I did like). The epilogue doesn't really stick the landing, though. That last scene makes it seem like Rey becomes a hermit on Tattooine or something. I would have preferred with something that gave stronger hints towards the Jedi Order or the Republic being established. We didn't really need to return the homestead, espeically because we already did that in the prequels, and the location had no relevance for Rey. Why should the lightsabers be buried there?

I actually don't mind the Death Star Destroyers, and they're much less irritating to me in concept than Starkiller base, which ends up distracting from the more interesting plot of trying to find Skywalker.

Learning more about Sith mysticism is kinda cool. I like the look of Exegol a lot.

The way in which Palpatine is defeated is really dumb.

Rey not being "no one" is dumb. The idea of he struggling with her nature as a Palpatine falls flat here.

Lando having a secret daughter is dumb, even if it's barely in the movie. (I honestly chuckled in the theater at the end because I thought he was putting the movies on someone way younger; imagine my befuddlement when I learned later that was part of a deleted subplot where he was looking for his daughter.)

Showing massive fleets facing off each other for a final confrontation and then barely having them fight because of super-lightning is really, really dumb.

Having Ben finally turn to light and then having it be as irrelevant to the story as it becomes is really really dumb. Which is a shame, because the acting of Ridley and Driver in the final act almost allows me to look past that. Imagine what this could have been if the script wasn't really, really dumb.

I do find some poetry in him having the power to "stop the ones he cared about from dying" but being through the light, but maybe that wouldn't have worked better if Rey's "death" wasn't so arbitrary and dumb. I think they were trying to lean into a plot thread from Episode III about the force having the power to prevent death( which is why Palpatine quotes a line from that movie verbatim), but I don't think they leaned into that enough for Palpatine's resurrection to work (and I'm sure they didn't plan that in advance). Ultimately I think Duel of the Fates made the wiser choice by having Supreme Leader Ren as the big bad, with Hux as a kind of side villain, even if I did enjoy what Driver gave to the character here. I think with TFA, there's the possibility that he could be redeemed, but TLJ literally closes the door on that. That's why it's frustrating and dumb that it not only reverses that, but does so for essentially no reason. Ben Solo's redemption ultimately plays a pretty minimal role in the whole plot. He's present at Rey's side for a minute before being blasted into a hole. Some people think that people think that last scene with him was a last minute addition, a desperate attempt to course-correct because they realized how unsatisfying that was. It's to the credit of Driver that this manages to almost work in spite of the horrible writing.

(By the way, the leak I read before the movie came out got a lot of details right, but it also had Driver getting possessed by Palpatine in the second half of the movie, then getting exorcised and redeemed, then dying, then resurrected by Luke's ghost. I have no idea if this was an earlier draft of script or not, but it does give me some gratitude for showing me that we didn't get the dumbest possible version of the movie).

It's frustrating because I really like the characters in this trilogy and the chemistry they all have, and both they and the actors themselves deserved a better send off. I never expected much because the writer of Batman Vs. Superman was involved, but that doesn't make it any less disappointing.

You’re describing my reaction to Star Trek Into Darkness. The first half is a good movie and every time I think “I’ve been to hard on the JJverse.” Around the point it turns into straight remake of Wrath of Khan, I want to vaporize my TV.

JJ is good at setting up stories, but terrible at resolving them. That goes for Kurtzman too. JJ is good at hitting the right story beats, but it ultimately feels like a very good bar cover band. Sure they can play the classics and stir some feels, but they bring nothing new or dynamic to music.