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  1. #21
    Senior Member asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mysterious Stranger View Post
    That is one sexy vulcan, his eyes are dewy and eager, what's his deal? Apart from liking science that is?
    It’s hipster Spock

  2. #22

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    Also
    There is no mysterious essence we can call a 'place'. Place is change. It is motion killed by the mind, and preserved in the amber of memory.
    J. A. Baker

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mysterious Stranger View Post
    That is one sexy vulcan, his eyes are dewy and eager, what's his deal? Apart from liking science that is?
    He’s dyslexic.
    There is no mysterious essence we can call a 'place'. Place is change. It is motion killed by the mind, and preserved in the amber of memory.
    J. A. Baker

  4. #24
    Mr. Brightside... The Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    It’s hipster Spock
    Whaaaaat? ooh lala talk about pon farr, that vulcan blood is smoldering

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Population: 1 View Post
    He’s dyslexic.
    xesy.
    With all due respect,
    The Cat.

    Clarity demands a certain degree of objectivity, from the world as well as the observer...
    Likes asynartetic, Population: 1 liked this post

  5. #25
    ha-ha-hoo Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mysterious Stranger View Post
    Oh for sure, I'm just wondering if theyre going to try to tie the aesthetic changes into the lore of the franchise similarly to what they did in Enterprise. TBH I like the idea of varying alien looks within the same species. I think it adds a fun level of realism. I don't know why we cant have all three flavors of kilingon, Qplasipolitan ice cream.
    Perhaps..
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi



  6. #26
    Mr. Brightside... The Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julius_Van_Der_Beak View Post
    Perhaps..
    With all due respect,
    The Cat.

    Clarity demands a certain degree of objectivity, from the world as well as the observer...

  7. #27
    Senior Member asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julius_Van_Der_Beak View Post
    ummmmm.................




    This seems like the Star Trek equivalent of complaining of the infeasibility of bombs dropping in space (like we've already seen, although to be fair, evidently people can walk normally on that asteroid, so evidently it's an issue with an asteroid having more gravity than it should) or hyperspace ramming (like it makes so much sense that the Falcon could hide on the back of an Imperial starship in a fleet of starships unnoticed).
    I don’t think it’s equivalent. One thing involves nitpicking about space battle physics, which I agree is silly, when the majority of space battle physics seen across multiple sci fi franchises are unrealistic, so why choose to suddenly nitpick the bombers in TLJ?

    The other thing involved people upset that a species and its culture were drastically altered and rewritten in a way that almost completely changed them. It would be like retconning the mandalorians or some other well established SW culture or race to the point of being unrecognizable, and I don’t mean physically unrecognizable. I can handle visual updates.

    I probably wouldn’t care that much about the total visual redesign of the Klingons, if not for the fact that they’ve also been changed in so many other ways to the point that their culture as seen in STD is nearly unrecognizable and not continuous with every aspect seen in every other version of Trek (including their brief portrayal in Into Darkness). The creators of STD could’ve easily created a new species if they wanted a generic xenophobic race that wanted to destroy the Federation because reasons, or they could have used a different species of which relatively little was known. The gorn actually would have been my choice, since there hasn’t really been much lore established about them. So establishing them as a reclusive race of xenophobes would actually enrich and add to the overall canon lore without causing obvious continuity issues. And it would fit with what little was already established about them in “arena” and “in a mirror darkly”

    A lot of people bring up the TOS Klingons like it’s supposed to be this grand refutation of criticisms of the std Klingons. However the lore and physical appearance established in tos was never really changed or overwritten with the updated versions in later films and series, it was simply expanded upon and updated with better makeup and costumes. Their culture in TOS might come across as different than later portrayals, but remember we’re seeing tos era Klingons at a time when they were at war with the Federation and we’re seeing them through the eyes of Starfleet officers. But even then they’re portrayed in a fairly nuanced manner and no later changes and updates prior to STD really contradict that or make the entire continuity feel forced or incoherent in the way STD has done. Later versions of Klingons expanded upon them, rather than completely changing them. The STD producers have stated this series is meant to fit into the prime timeline narrative and that they have no intention of making it a reboot that contradicts the established lore, and yet they have done just that. I would not mind it being a reboot meant to overwrite old canon and lore if they just had the balls to call it such, rather than insulting the intelligence of everyone by expecting them to overlook obvious contradictions to a rich world of lore that hundreds of writers have been building upon for decades and have for the most part taken great care to make every new addition to lore fit the continuity as believably as possible.

    This is why I’m sick of these prequels and reboots (including Enterprise, though it did have its moments and for the most part respected the established continuity and lore), as I think a lot of fans are. Most Trek fans aren’t afraid of change, they just want the existing history and lore left alone. If the timeline moves forward and changes occur, it would be more tolerable and believable. I’m ready for 25th century trek stories, which is why I’m stoked about the new Picard series, as it will be the first time Trek has moved forward in nearly 20 years. I’m not afraid of change, I like change. What I don’t like is lazy hack writers “reimagining” prexisting stories because they’re too lazy or uninspired to move forward and actually create something new
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  8. #28
    ha-ha-hoo Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    I don’t think it’s equivalent. One thing involves nitpicking about space battle physics, which I agree is silly, when the majority of space battle physics seen across multiple sci fi franchises are unrealistic, so why choose to suddenly nitpick the bombers in TLJ?

    The other thing involved people upset that a species and its culture were drastically altered and rewritten in a way that almost completely changed them. It would be like retconning the mandalorians or some other well established SW culture or race to the point of being unrecognizable, and I don’t mean physically unrecognizable. I can handle visual updates.

    I probably wouldn’t care that much about the total visual redesign of the Klingons, if not for the fact that they’ve also been changed in so many other ways to the point that their culture as seen in STD is nearly unrecognizable and not continuous with every aspect seen in every other version of Trek (including their brief portrayal in Into Darkness). The creators of STD could’ve easily created a new species if they wanted a generic xenophobic race that wanted to destroy the Federation because reasons, or they could have used a different species of which relatively little was known. The gorn actually would have been my choice, since there hasn’t really been much lore established about them. So establishing them as a reclusive race of xenophobes would actually enrich and add to the overall canon lore without causing obvious continuity issues. And it would fit with what little was already established about them in “arena” and “in a mirror darkly”

    A lot of people bring up the TOS Klingons like it’s supposed to be this grand refutation of criticisms of the std Klingons. However the lore and physical appearance established in tos was never really changed or overwritten with the updated versions in later films and series, it was simply expanded upon and updated with better makeup and costumes. Their culture in TOS might come across as different than later portrayals, but remember we’re seeing tos era Klingons at a time when they were at war with the Federation and we’re seeing them through the eyes of Starfleet officers. But even then they’re portrayed in a fairly nuanced manner and no later changes and updates prior to STD really contradict that or make the entire continuity feel forced or incoherent in the way STD has done. Later versions of Klingons expanded upon them, rather than completely changing them. The STD producers have stated this series is meant to fit into the prime timeline narrative and that they have no intention of making it a reboot that contradicts the established lore, and yet they have done just that. I would not mind it being a reboot meant to overwrite old canon and lore if they just had the balls to call it such, rather than insulting the intelligence of everyone by expecting them to overlook obvious contradictions to a rich world of lore that hundreds of writers have been building upon for decades and have for the most part taken great care to make every new addition to lore fit the continuity as believably as possible.

    This is why I’m sick of these prequels and reboots (including Enterprise, though it did have its moments and for the most part respected the established continuity and lore), as I think a lot of fans are. Most Trek fans aren’t afraid of change, they just want the existing history and lore left alone. If the timeline moves forward and changes occur, it would be more tolerable and believable. I’m ready for 25th century trek stories, which is why I’m stoked about the new Picard series, as it will be the first time Trek has moved forward in nearly 20 years. I’m not afraid of change, I like change. What I don’t like is lazy hack writers “reimagining” prexisting stories because they’re too lazy or uninspired to move forward and actually create something new
    I only saw the first episode, so and I didn't get enough from that to conclude they were significantly different.
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi


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  9. #29
    Mr. Brightside... The Cat's Avatar
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    I want a Star Trek series set in the mirror universe.
    With all due respect,
    The Cat.

    Clarity demands a certain degree of objectivity, from the world as well as the observer...
    Likes asynartetic liked this post

  10. #30

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    This isn’t even Star Trek. It’s Trek trying to be other sci-fi. I like a large variety of sci-fi, which is why I never got into the whole Star Wars vs Star Trek debate. You can’t expect one to be the other. It’s apples and oranges. Both are set in space with futuristic (or ancient future like) technology. That’s where the similarities end.

    Unfortunately, STD is trying to be anything but Star Trek. I don’t want my Star Trek to try and be a mishmash of Star Wars, Farscape, SG-1, Dr. Who, or Battlestar Galactica. I want it to be Star Trek at it’s core. I want exploration of humanity through exploration of alien cultures that represent certain ideas, philosophies etc. That’s what Trek does well. Everything is a mirror into ourselves. We’re asked questions and not handed the so-called correct answers or lectured to but simply posed the question to ponder. That’s what Star Trek is to me.
    There is no mysterious essence we can call a 'place'. Place is change. It is motion killed by the mind, and preserved in the amber of memory.
    J. A. Baker
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