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Avengers Endgame

Totenkindly

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Effective trailer despite not showing much. It looks like the world is rocked and in mourning. Not a lot of heroes left. But the ones who are left, after grappling with grief, are preparing to Do Something.

(Maybe it's more than just a "futile and stupid gesture" like Animal House, although at this point anything is good.) it is feeling like some amount of time has passed... not sure how much, but it's not just like the Snap happened yesterday. I'm not sure how long it takes Tony and Nebula to get back either.

Here's the original trailer from some weeks back.




Note that there are notable gaps between characters in a few shots (compared to the spacing of all the other characters in the frame) -- the guess is that they CGI'ed Captain Marvel out at least until her movie releases in a month.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Just saw Infinity War (very tightly written movie).


I'd say all the build-up was worth it and it worked. I didn't think Thanos would work as a villain ( I don't read much comics so I didn't know what his whole deal was other than the fact that he wanted those rocks), but they pulled it off. I think the MCU is getting a lot better with its villains, hah. I guess it's hard because I suppose they can't use any of the really iconic Marvel villains that everyone knows. Like Dr. Doom, Magneto, or Green Goblin.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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You know it's interesting how the MCU Spiderman is different from the Sam Raimi one (the main thing I remember about the Andrew Garfield version is that it tried to make Peter Parker guy... he had a skateboard... radical). It seems to me like his youth and inexperience is really played up. I mean I suppose that was an element in the other ones, but you didn't have Tony Stark hanging around trying to keep him out of trouble. His suit is much more high-tech, too; in the older movies, it's a disguise and that's pretty much it.

I gotta say that I like those spider legs he has in Infinity War; reminds me of Doctor Ock, a bit, although I'm pretty sure the MCU can't use him, although it would be cool to see a fight between two 8-limbed beings.
 

anticlimatic

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I like the humor in marvel movies, but all of the plot/action/cgi-show stuff bores me to the point of seeing their movies when I have absolutely nothing better to watch. After seeing the trailer for this movie a couple days ago, I finally got around to watching infinity war last night. I don't know how they are going to time travel/paralel dimension everyone back to life, but I can almost guarantee Dr Strange knew what was going to happen with his "one" version of the future in which Thanos was defeated that is currently being acted out, despite having to sacrifice himself and his green rock for the "endgame."
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I like the humor in marvel movies, but all of the plot/action/cgi-show stuff bores me to the point of seeing their movies when I have absolutely nothing better to watch. After seeing the trailer for this movie a couple days ago, I finally got around to watching infinity war last night. I don't know how they are going to time travel/paralel dimension everyone back to life, but I can almost guarantee Dr Strange knew what was going to happen with his "one" version of the future in which Thanos was defeated that is currently being acted out, despite having to sacrifice himself and his green rock for the "endgame."
I mean, I'm 95% sure that's what's going on. Earlier he said that he would have sacrificed Parker's or Stark's life for the Stone, and I get the impression he wouldn't go back on that. He said as he was disappearing that "it was the only way" which suggests it was an act of necessity and not a sudden change of heart. It must have somehow been part of the future he saw, although I can't speculate as to how that helps. If Thanos didn't have the Time Stone, the destruction of the Mind Stone would have worked.

I find I tend to be interested in the more fanciful/speculative aspects of the series. These movies don't give a fig about realism, and that's probably the thing I like best about them. Like the African-influenced sci-fi of Black Panther (which I've never seen before), or the mystic occult portals of Dr. Strange. Although early on, I did like the hi-tech wizardry of Iron Man and the dieselpunk Captain America.

I found Thor didn't work for me until Ragnarok, though. I just think he's hard to connect with as a character until he lost some stuff. I mean, even Superman is an orphan and outsider. At first he was royalty and an immortal deity, which isn't really relatable. I also found myself not really caring about Loki as a character until Ragnarok. I don't think the character, or at least the movie version, really works as a main villain. He works better as someone who you aren't sure if they are going to be an ally or an enemy, someone that you watch because you aren't sure what they're going to do next.

I suppose the best Marvel movies have villains that are as interesting as the hero, if not more so. Like Thanos, or the one in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (maybe someone still hasn't seen it), or Killmonger.
 

anticlimatic

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I mean, I'm 95% sure that's what's going on. Earlier he said that he would have sacrificed Parker's or Stark's life for the Stone, and I get the impression he wouldn't go back on that. He said as he was disappearing that "it was the only way" which suggests it was an act of necessity and not a sudden change of heart. It must have somehow been part of the future he saw, although I can't speculate as to how that helps. If Thanos didn't have the Time Stone, the destruction of the Mind Stone would have worked.

I find I tend to be interested in the more fanciful/speculative aspects of the series. These movies don't give a fig about realism, and that's probably the thing I like best about them. Like the African-influenced sci-fi of Black Panther (which I've never seen before), or the mystic occult portals of Dr. Strange. Although early on, I did like the hi-tech wizardry of Iron Man and the dieselpunk Captain America.

I found Thor didn't work for me until Ragnarok, though. I just think he's hard to connect with as a character until he lost some stuff. I mean, even Superman is an orphan and outsider. At first he was royalty and an immortal deity, which isn't really relatable. I also found myself not really caring about Loki as a character until Ragnarok. I don't think the character, or at least the movie version, really works as a main villain. He works better as someone who you aren't sure if they are going to be an ally or an enemy, someone that you watch because you aren't sure what they're going to do next.

I suppose the best Marvel movies have villains that are as interesting as the hero, if not more so. Like Thanos, or the one in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (maybe someone still hasn't seen it), or Killmonger.

I feel like the best of the Marvel movies is where it lets actors play enjoyable stereotypes of themselves (Chris Pratt's energetic optimistic doofus, Robert Downy's cocky quick witted condescension, etc). The movies do care about a certain kind of realism, but it's hidden in the comedy. I counted so many scenes that were clearly pandering to your basic boyfriend/girlfriend/parent types, like angsty teenage groot or the hulk's circumstantial impotence. Things that pertain to physics and the various plot devices definitely don't care about it, but it follows a pretty predictable pattern of basic people pandering perpetually woven into a track of 'hero A kicks ass, hero A is now in trouble, hero B to the rescue'- repeat.

I'm sure that Tony Stark is the one who will be most responsible for fixing things somehow- guessing he MacGyver's up some kind of device that makes it happen.

Peter Rosenthol sums them all up for me. I've never seen any of the Thor movies, and I doubt I'll ever see Aquaman or Captain Marvel.

 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I feel like the best of the Marvel movies is where it lets actors play enjoyable stereotypes of themselves (Chris Pratt's energetic optimistic doofus, Robert Downy's cocky quick witted condescension, etc). The movies do care about a certain kind of realism, but it's hidden in the comedy. I counted so many scenes that were clearly pandering to your basic boyfriend/girlfriend/parent types, like angsty teenage groot or the hulk's circumstantial impotence. Things that pertain to physics and the various plot devices definitely don't care about it, but it follows a pretty predictable pattern of basic people pandering perpetually woven into a track of 'hero A kicks ass, hero A is now in trouble, hero B to the rescue'- repeat.

Isn't that part of the source material, though? Didn't Marvel characters always deal with personal problems like that ? That's the way I've understood it, anyway.

Peter Rosenthol sums them all up for me. I've never seen any of the Thor movies, and I doubt I'll ever see Aquaman or Captain Marvel.


Aquaman is DC.
 

anticlimatic

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Isn't that part of the source material, though? Didn't Marvel characters always deal with personal problems like that ? That's the way I've understood it, anyway.

Not really, though in my youth I mainly read X-Men comics from marvel, so it might not count. Either way it's fine. I can get down on life's easy questions as much as the next dude, at least in short bursts.

Aquaman is DC

I generally like DC a tiny bit more than Marvel (not necessarily their recent movies), but I still probably won't see aquaman for two reasons. Reason one: "Aquaman" yippee skipee. Reason two: that actor Jason Mamosa annoys me for some reason that is not likely his fault.
 

Totenkindly

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Ten more days in US.

Apparently there's a 4-minute leak vid out there. I'm avoiding much of the online discussion because I don't care about people's crazy theories (like whether Ant Man is gonna turn Thanos into a Thanus). TBH I'm kinda tired of hearing about everyone's pet theories on this film and GoT Season 8, since most are pretty whack if you understand the story maker's mentality and past practice...

While I did watch all of GoT in about three weeks to prep for Season 8, I'm only watching a few Marvel films in prep for this. I did Age of Ultron last week, and this weekend maybe I'll watch Winter Soldier + then Civil War and Infinity War. I think that will be good enough in terms of making connections.
 

Totenkindly

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The retrospective angle is pretty good.



I wonder if they plan on having just one Avengers (East Coast) or adding in a West Coast version as well. It seems pretty likely at least for the roster that since they've done the set up that Ant-Man and the Wasp would both end up in one of the Avengers groups after, i just wonder remaining cast will be around.

It still doesn't really address the potential Accords issue either (it was only momentarily covered in Infinity War, right? Where Rhodey hung up on the Secretary right before everyone went to Wakanda?) Maybe restoring half of the planet's population will be considered proof the Avengers needs autonomy? But if it's handled through time travel so the snap doesn't happen? I dunno how they plan to deal with it.
 

The Cat

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The retrospective angle is pretty good.



I wonder if they plan on having just one Avengers (East Coast) or adding in a West Coast version as well. It seems pretty likely since they've done the set up that Ant-Man and the Wasp would both end up in one of the Avengers groups after, i just wonder remaining cast will be around.

Wasnt RDjr supposedly wanting to retire from the role? Or was that just a rumor? *seeks your oracular guidance once again*
 

Totenkindly

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Wasnt RDjr supposedly wanting to retire from the role? Or was that just a rumor? *seeks your oracular guidance once again*
Rdj Last year: "the actor added that he was very conscious of not holding on for too long. "I just never want to blow it for the last six or seven [MCU movies] I have done by dropping the ball because I decided to go do it one more time," he said. "I just want to hang up my jersey before it's embarrassing."

It will be his ninth mcu flick.

I dont think he or Chris evans have contracts past endgame. Evans wants to branch into directing more but also has apparently really enjoyed working with the russos. So has rdj. Its more about necessary change for stories to progress...plus a desire to do other projects, vs wanting to quit the roles per se. Personally I think Endgame would be a great time to change the guard... plus if there is no cost to fixing what thanos did, it will ruin the story. I am expecting at least one of them to die. Someone needs to pay a big price. I am expecting to feel my heart ripped out during this film.

There are no plans to recast Tony stark, it is impossible at the moment. Same thing with Steve Rogers. I think if Rogers dies, they would have another character be Cap like has happened in comics (if they go that way). And same for Iron Man; we also still have War Machine around. But its possible Tony could take pepper and gtfo if he lives. He has put in his time.
 

The Cat

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Rdj Last year: "the actor added that he was very conscious of not holding on for too long. "I just never want to blow it for the last six or seven [MCU movies] I have done by dropping the ball because I decided to go do it one more time," he said. "I just want to hang up my jersey before it's embarrassing."

It will be his ninth mcu flick.

I dont think he or Chris evans have contracts past endgame. Evans wants to branch into directing more but also has apparently really enjoyed working with the russos. So has rdj. Its more about necessary change for stories to progress...plus a desire to do other projects, vs wanting to quit the roles per se. Personally I think Endgame would be a great time to change the guard... plus if there is no cost to fixing what thanos did, it will ruin the story. I am expecting at least one of them to die. Someone needs to pay a big price. I am expecting to feel my heart ripped out during this film.

There are no plans to recast Tony stark, it is impossible at the moment. Same thing with Steve Rogers. I think if Rogers dies, they would have another character be Cap like has happened in comics (if they go that way). And same for Iron Man; we also still have War Machine around. But its possible Tony could take pepper and gtfo if he lives. He has put in his time.

I can deffo see Stark becoming more like a Nick Fury cameo character, and another super soldier coming to take over Steve Rogers as the mantle of Cap. I feel like that would probably even be true enough to the comics even without a death?
 

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Totenkindly

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Review embargo lifts Tues 6pm EST (3pm PST).
 

Totenkindly

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Critic response seems excellent. I think I only saw two negative reviews show up. Not that I read any of them, I'll do that after I see it on Saturday night.

I've liked all the Russo films so far, so... figure I'll at least like this.

I watched the first half of Captain America: The First Avenger last night -- I like that more than the latter half, I just thought it was impressive showing Skinny Steve vs big Steve. But I like how they used it to exemplify the character, he's still the same person he was before being hit by the Super Serum. (He also uses the phrase, "I can do this all day" in that film before transforming, and that line shows up in either Winter Soldier or Civil War.) Stanley Tucci is kind of the heart of that film; you get the crazy scientists like Schmidt and Zola, but you get the ones who want to help people like Erskine. His last scene with Steve is wordless; he just taps him on the chest, but it's from the night before when he pointed at Steve's chest and tells him to be a good man. It's all he has to say, his last reminder. And Steve doesn't really fail in that mission.

Anyone can be given power, but you can't really make someone a good person. So you have to start with that.


I also watched the first half of The Avengers -- I didn't remember much of it, so it's like seeing it new.
 

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My brother and I will be seeing it this Saturday - can't wait! :D (We watched Infinity War together on Netflix earlier this week, that was the last movie I needed to see in order to get a better sense of what's going on... Vision and Spiderman's demise really hit me the most :cry: )
 

Totenkindly

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Saw it last night, we had great seats.

My overall view: There were parts of it I enjoyed and even really liked; there were other parts I really didn't much like, to the degree my whole experience downgraded a bit. I mean, if you follow MCU you kinda gotta watch because it ties everything together and caps it off. But I don't feel like it has a ton of rewatch value for me personally, not like some of the other films that I habitually rewatch. (The Avengers flicks, Iron Man, GotG flicks, and even Infinity War.) If other people really enjoyed it, then that's good because there is no worst feeling in the world for "Big event films" than feeling disappointed and disinterested.

Obviously, lots of spoilers here:

 

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I have soo much to say on this but I don't know how to do the hidden content thing ughh.
 

Totenkindly

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I have soo much to say on this but I don't know how to do the hidden content thing ughh.

Use the SPOILER tag

Basically:
[ SPOILER ]
Text to be hidden here
[ /SPOILER ]


but remove the spaces inside the square brackets, that will make the tags work.



I think that it's been agreed the "public spoilers ban" lifts on Monday after this weekend of theater-going, so...
 
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