Two older women I manage keep fighting each other and trying to drag me into it

[Luminous]

Ask them each separately what the problem is and how they would solve it. That might give you clues as to what to do.

 

[rav3n]

I’m going to split them as much as possible, but there are times during the day they’ll have to work together. We are working in a public high school in the special education department, so there are kids having to suffer from this, too.

That's why there must be a clear division of responsibilities which includes the times they're working together. That said, now that I know you're working in a unionized environment, I can't comment on how many steps it would take to terminate an employee. Aren't there any management guidelines for dealing with this?

 

[Metis]

Ask them each separately what the problem is and how they would solve it. That might give you clues as to what to do.

Damn, you're smart.

 

[Avocado]

That's why there must be a clear division of responsibilities which includes the times they're working together. That said, now that I know you're working in a unionized environment, I can't comment on how many steps it would take to terminate an employee. Aren't there any management guidelines for dealing with this?

Lots of documentation and trying to gather witnesses.

 

[rav3n]

Lots of documentation and trying to gather witnesses.

There must be an HR department so involve them to witness your meeting.

 

[The Cat]

Lots of documentation and trying to gather witnesses.

Do they get on anyone in the unions nerves out of curiosity?

 

[Avocado]

Do they get on anyone in the unions nerves out of curiosity?

I’m thinking they probably do get on the union leaders’ nerves...though I can’t prove it.

 

[The Cat]

I’m thinking they probably do get on the union leaders’ nerves...though I can’t prove it.

keep an eye out an an ear open there should reason fail between these two.

 

[highlander]

I like what [MENTION=10808]bechimo[/MENTION] said because it is simple and direct. The risk with that is that they then complain about you and it causes you more headaches. I have used one technique where I help one person understand the other better. It can be a way of coaching them. Type can provide clues on the reasons for conflict. Another thing I would do is to let your boss know about the situation and ask for their ideas on how to deal with it before you do anything. If you do what they suggest you are covered and it may set the stage for getting them split up. Not all your problem. Also I would perhaps me tion the impact it is having on the classroom in terms of causing disruption. and being harmful to the kids.

 

[Avocado]

I like what [MENTION=10808]bechimo[/MENTION] said because it is simple and direct. The risk with that is that they then complain about you and it causes you more headaches. I have used one technique where I help one person understand the other better. It can be a way of coaching them. Type can provide clues on the reasons for conflict. Another thing I would do is to let your boss know about the situation and ask for their ideas on how to deal with it before you do anything. If you do what they suggest you are covered and it may set the stage for getting them split up. Not all your problem. Also I would perhaps me tion the impact it is having on the classroom in terms of causing disruption. and being harmful to the kids.

My mom, who I report to directly, has been advising me to talk with them, but that didn’t work, so my mom started looking for other places in the school to put them. My mom’s boss, though, saw she was preparing the paperwork to trade one of my paras for another para and stopped her. She told my mom she’s moved both of the paras around so much because they were causing trouble everywhere and now that she has the two trouble makers isolated in my room, she doesn’t want to move them again...

...so I need to make this work at least till next year.

 

[Metis]

My mom, who I report to directly, has been advising me to talk with them, but that didn’t work, so my mom started looking for other places in the school to put them. My mom’s boss, though, saw she was preparing the paperwork to trade one of my paras for another para and stopped her. She told my mom she’s moved both of the paras around so much because they were causing trouble everywhere and now that she has the two trouble makers isolated in my room, she doesn’t want to move them again...

...so I need to make this work at least till next year.

They were causing problems everywhere before they were put together? Then it's not just that they can't get along with each other; they were giving others a hard time as well?

 

[Avocado]

They were causing problems everywhere before they were put together? Then it's not just that they can't get along with each other; they were giving others a hard time as well?

yes, now they torment each other

 

[Avocado]

yes, now they torment each other

Yes. Now they torment each other.

 

[Metis]

Yes. Now they torment each other.

And you and the kids.

 

[rav3n]

My mom, who I report to directly, has been advising me to talk with them, but that didn’t work, so my mom started looking for other places in the school to put them. My mom’s boss, though, saw she was preparing the paperwork to trade one of my paras for another para and stopped her. She told my mom she’s moved both of the paras around so much because they were causing trouble everywhere and now that she has the two trouble makers isolated in my room, she doesn’t want to move them again...

...so I need to make this work at least till next year.

This situation has the potential for so many nuances. Perhaps you can explain how you got this job and the dynamics between your mother and her boss, relative to your hire.

 

[Frosty]

What will send a good clear message that I just want them to leave each other alone and their work? I said that already and a day later they were fighting again. One is a 56 year old white lady who has a lot of money because she divorced Ryan Erxleben the Sports Hero, and the other is a 68 year old black lady from a poor background who is a widow of 20 years. I work well with each one on one, but when they are together, they keep fighting and trying to get me to pick a side, and the innanities they want me to referee are rediculous.
[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], what is your experience in managing older immature educated women?

Tell them that what they are doing is inappropriate and that you wont be dragged into it. That they can save their personal problems for outside of work but at work, they need to figure out a way to get along with each other.

Either that, or go higher up.

Maybe this sounds too severe but... this sort of drama will only get worse if its not nipped in the bud. When people start doing things like this- Ive noticed that the more attention it gets- and the longer it is left to go on... the more entitled each side feels to the idea of making their own version of events social reality.

That one thing the other person did 12 years ago. That time they didnt open the door for you. Well. Evidence that they are an evil no good person out to get you. What starts out small becomes bigger and more ridiculous. Both sides start completely dismissing the perspectives of the other- and its all distorted into some sort of giant narrative of victimization thats just- at that point- too far gone to fix.

So say something now. Warn them one more time (for fairness- tell them about your plans to go higher up if things dont improve). And if that doesnt work- actually DO go higher up.


Edit: Oh. I didnt see further responses. Ill come back in a bit and write more

 

[Metis]

Avocado, I think it's great that it's already well-known that they're troublemakers. You can use the situation as a learning opportunity for yourself to try to manage the situation, which you're doing. There's a low risk that it will blow up in your face and result in your looking like the bad guy, since their behavior is widely known already, and you can try some of the different tactics people have brainstormed and suggested on here, plus approaches you've thought of on your own, and see for yourself what works and what doesn't. Then in the future, you'll have this under your belt and have practiced your diplomacy/conflict management leadership skills with these women, and you'll be prepared for other situations.

 

[rav3n]

As a generality, Avocado's biggest problems aren't the two women. This situation is fraught full of political land mines.

 

[Avocado]

This situation has the potential for so many nuances. Perhaps you can explain how you got this job and the dynamics between your mother and her boss, relative to your hire.

Maybe later. There was a big blow up between the two women on the field trip and I need to write a statement. I’m also filing a seperate sexual harassment claim and I need to put in grades. I just popped in to read some of the comments.

 

[rav3n]

Maybe later. There was a big blow up between the two women on the field trip and I need to write a statement. I’m also filing a seperate sexual harassment claim and I need to put in grades. I just popped in to read some of the comments.

Fair enough but you have to bear in mind that all the advice that I gave must be shelved, pending your explanation. Reliant on political dynamics, there'll be different ways to handle the problem in order to make it a permanent solution on all tiers. And again, reliant on political dynamics, you can show brass that you can handle the two women but that can also result in another impossible test thrown your way, in order to set you up to fail if failure's the ultimate goal.