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  1. #1
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    Default Does your country have an active labour market?

    Does your country have an active labour market and how is it defined? Is it like the formal, welfare state, institutional example in Sweden, where the state will do a lot of enabling, through retraining, relocation, even rehousing (at least this was my understanding of it, its been about twenty years since I studied it) or is it just a norm or expectation that you will change jobs within your career, either within your field or between fields, staying perhaps no longer than three or four years within a single post?

    How often do you change jobs? Do you consciously CV build and if you do which sort of active labour market do you think would help the most with that? Do you think its a good or a bad norm that you should be expected to change jobs within your field?

  2. #2
    πŸ“ girl in an 🍎 world SurrealisticSlumbers's Avatar
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    Eh, as an American I'd say we're largely a nation of job-hoppers and job seekers. People my age in particular don't often stay at the same job for more than 3 years. It's all about getting ahead, gaining a new skill set, then moving on to something (slightly) better. I think it's just the American way to start out by working a minimum wage job, and then do what you can to gun for a better-paying position if you're in an industry that isn't a total dead end. Then, after that, most Americans will seek an even better paying position, with another company. Of course, no conversation about the U.S. labor market would be relevant without some discussion of our unemployment numbers. 'Cause ever since the crash in '08, the labor market has suffered substantially. Same for other countries... not saying it's just us. Also, the constant advances in technology continue to diminish the role of the human worker. I was in Paris last year, and saw that there were touchscreens to order food in the McDonalds' - it wasn't but a couple months later, in my small Maryland town, that I noticed that we now have them here in the U.S.

    It's going to be interesting to watch the continued disruption of service-sector employment and industries where human workers are being replaced by AI. Confident that a basic income is going to be established in America within the next decade. That's judging by the (real) unemployment rate, due to AI and the country not having quite gotten back on its feet (nobody's buying much of anything these days, so companies suffer). Underemployment is obviously still rampant; really "good" jobs (over $50k a year salary) scarce - irregardless of one's education.

    The market here has just become a lot leaner and meaner. We haven't made a full recovery yet in America, and probably never will. Time to face the music and institute the policies that every other industrialized nation already has.
    Over 40 years ago, we were passing through South Carolina - possibly on our way to Florida.
    For reasons unknown to this day, we were shot to death, execution style, on the side of a dirt road.
    We were a young couple, probably in our early to mid-20s, and may have been French Canadian.
    Our identities have never been established.
    So... Who were we?


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  3. #3
    Senior Member Magnus's Avatar
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    The world's challenges from technology are just beginning. What you're suggesting is just the first few steps that need to be taken.

    For right now though, America is in recovery. Until we have real AI, the economy is doing okay now. Once the labor force is more or less back to normal, I expect real wage increases will become more common and noticeable. My guess is we'll start hearing more about that by this time next year.

  4. #4
    πŸ“ girl in an 🍎 world SurrealisticSlumbers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    I expect real wage increases will become more common and noticeable.
    Not in rural America.
    Over 40 years ago, we were passing through South Carolina - possibly on our way to Florida.
    For reasons unknown to this day, we were shot to death, execution style, on the side of a dirt road.
    We were a young couple, probably in our early to mid-20s, and may have been French Canadian.
    Our identities have never been established.
    So... Who were we?


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealisticSlumbers View Post
    Eh, as an American I'd say we're largely a nation of job-hoppers and job seekers. People my age in particular don't often stay at the same job for more than 3 years. It's all about getting ahead, gaining a new skill set, then moving on to something (slightly) better. I think it's just the American way to start out by working a minimum wage job, and then do what you can to gun for a better-paying position if you're in an industry that isn't a total dead end. Then, after that, most Americans will seek an even better paying position, with another company. Of course, no conversation about the U.S. labor market would be relevant without some discussion of our unemployment numbers. 'Cause ever since the crash in '08, the labor market has suffered substantially. Same for other countries... not saying it's just us. Also, the constant advances in technology continue to diminish the role of the human worker. I was in Paris last year, and saw that there were touchscreens to order food in the McDonalds' - it wasn't but a couple months later, in my small Maryland town, that I noticed that we now have them here in the U.S. It's going to be interesting to watch the continued disruption of service-sector employment and industries where human workers are being replaced by AI. Confident that a basic income is going to be established in America within the next decade. That's judging by the (real) unemployment rate, due to AI and the country not having quite gotten back on its feet (nobody's buying much of anything these days, so companies suffer). Underemployment is obviously still rampant; really "good" jobs (over $50k a year salary) scarce - irregardless of one's education. The market here has just become a lot leaner and meaner. We haven't made a full recovery yet in America, and probably never will. Time to face the music and institute the policies that every other industrialized nation already has.
    While I with a lot of what you say, I really can't see the US giving a base wage to people anytime in the near future. It's not in the public dialogue at all.

    And the US leans farther right than a lot of other industrialized nations. People, even a lot of the people who would benefit from a base wage, would absolutely flip out at the idea. There would be riots. This is especially true in the more staunchly conservative rural regions, many of which are in a constant state of decline with no hope of recovery. Many of the people there are proud, distrustful of outsiders like the government, and thus will stand firmly against help. Unless something very monumentos occurs culturally, it won't change.

    There is a sense in American culture of "Don't accept handouts, just work harder and your lot in life will improve." Does this pan out in reality? No. But it's there.

    They say the economy's booming, but it only is for a very few. You see politicians boasting on TV about how much better the economy is. While we're better off than we were in '08, it's still bad. Heck, '08 isn't even near the beginning of the decline of some of these areas. Back when the US economy was good, some of these areas were already beginning to fall apart decades ago.

    Plus, there is no room in America's budget for a base wage. The country cannot afford it. We're headed for serious debt related problems as it is and currently have an administration that wants to waste a tremendous amount of money doing things like building a border wall.

    Raising the minimum wage is long overdue though. It hasn't increased at a consistent rate with inflation for about 50 years, which is ridiculous.

    Also, increased AI personally just freaks me out. I don't think it's good for AI to take too many jobs or people won't be working. And I don't think anything good can come out of masses of people with no work and endless time on their hands. It'll also probably increase the appeal of participating in things like the drug trade.
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  6. #6
    clever fool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Does your country have an active labour market and how is it defined? Is it like the formal, welfare state, institutional example in Sweden, where the state will do a lot of enabling, through retraining, relocation, even rehousing (at least this was my understanding of it, its been about twenty years since I studied it) or is it just a norm or expectation that you will change jobs within your career, either within your field or between fields, staying perhaps no longer than three or four years within a single post?

    How often do you change jobs? Do you consciously CV build and if you do which sort of active labour market do you think would help the most with that? Do you think its a good or a bad norm that you should be expected to change jobs within your field?
    Yes, my country does alot of enabling through financing training programs, reinsertion programs etc. I think those things are useful and I wouldn't wish them away, but I'm guessing the welfare state does cost alot which takes money out of the economy. The biggest complaint I hear from potential employers is that I am too expensive, they can't afford to hire people, especially the smaller businesses. Employers do pay alot out of their own pocket for social security, healthcare and a host of other things. Unemployment is something like 8-10 percent in my city, and in some neighbourhoods much higher. And people are discouraged especially young people, I hear it in their way of talking and what they tell me. This despite a welfare state, though it could actually be because of it since it costly and makes the cost of hiring people heavy, unless they are highly skilled. This creates inequality, which the left is against.

    Honestly I don't think economic liberalism is the way to go anymore, welfare state or no. Europe needs protectionism, just like China, Russia, India , and now the US have. But both the mainstream left and the mainstream right are against protectionism, and those politicians who are for it are often racists/xenophobes in addition. I also think we need UBI, but again, noone wants to hear about it and there is no public dialogue about it. Protectionism would be useful against outsourcing, especially for smaller businesses, and UBI would be a good alternative to the costly, opaque welfare state and increasing automation.

  7. #7
    clever fool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealisticSlumbers View Post
    Eh, as an American I'd say we're largely a nation of job-hoppers and job seekers. People my age in particular don't often stay at the same job for more than 3 years. It's all about getting ahead, gaining a new skill set, then moving on to something (slightly) better. I think it's just the American way to start out by working a minimum wage job, and then do what you can to gun for a better-paying position if you're in an industry that isn't a total dead end. Then, after that, most Americans will seek an even better paying position, with another company.
    That doesn't sound so bad to me. It actually shows job opportunities exist. This isn't the case where I live.

    Of course, no conversation about the U.S. labor market would be relevant without some discussion of our unemployment numbers. 'Cause ever since the crash in '08, the labor market has suffered substantially.
    Actual unemployment is lower than it has been since 20 years in the US.

    Yes, many jobs are low payed and part time, but at least prospects do seem to exist in America and there is a possiblity to work your way up in the system. Not every country even has an "up".
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  8. #8
    πŸ“ girl in an 🍎 world SurrealisticSlumbers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Actual unemployment is lower than it has been since 20 years in the US.

    Yes, many jobs are low payed and part time, but at least prospects do seem to exist in America and there is a possiblity to work your way up in the system. Not every country even has an "up".
    I believe that unemployment is down primarily in urban areas of the U.S., because like you mentioned, most of the jobs nowadays are part-time and minimum wage, i.e. retail. If you go to the rural places, however, you may notice that there's been no change in employment statistics and/or job opportunities created. And while you can go get a job at Wendy's, is that going to be enough to pay rent on a one-room apartment? Not unless you shack up with a significant other who brings in some sort of income themselves. Otherwise, it's the Section 8 life... And I hate to tell you this but nepotism is alive and well in America - it's far from a meritocracy here.

    Where are you from?
    Over 40 years ago, we were passing through South Carolina - possibly on our way to Florida.
    For reasons unknown to this day, we were shot to death, execution style, on the side of a dirt road.
    We were a young couple, probably in our early to mid-20s, and may have been French Canadian.
    Our identities have never been established.
    So... Who were we?


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  9. #9
    clever fool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealisticSlumbers View Post
    Where are you from?
    I'm from Belgium.

    (Sorry for a late reply, btw)
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  10. #10
    πŸ“ girl in an 🍎 world SurrealisticSlumbers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I'm from Belgium.

    (Sorry for a late reply, btw)
    Oh, of course, that's what it says on your profile! Oops lol
    Over 40 years ago, we were passing through South Carolina - possibly on our way to Florida.
    For reasons unknown to this day, we were shot to death, execution style, on the side of a dirt road.
    We were a young couple, probably in our early to mid-20s, and may have been French Canadian.
    Our identities have never been established.
    So... Who were we?


    Likes Typh0n liked this post

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