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  1. #1
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    Default Zero interest econ jobs?

    I'm Muslim, and part of my faith involves not working with, or buying interest (in finance). (although certain people in my family, im not going to give names, dont listen, but oh well, i try not to be a know it all and dont act "holier-than-thou"). it is referred to in arabic as "riba". it is said that "devouring one dirham (then's currency) of riba is like committing adultery 36 times. " What kind of jobs are there in finance and economics, if there are any, that don't involve work with "riba"?

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    This is interesting, as I understand it this pertains to usury, which technically may not be the same as interest and I believe in many of its articulations in scriptures states that usury can not be exercised with members of the community of believers but may be exercised with strangers, foreigners or non-faith, although this may be a case of technicalities and choosing to discover a way of "bending the rules", it just depends on how literal you decide to interpret the faith.

    I do know some Christians who would never work in finance, of any description, because they believe that the actions of Jesus expelling money changers from the Temple say it all, they also literally interpret rules against usury as prohibiting all forms of interest charges.

    I do not know enough about the emergence of finance in the west, I think the Borgia had a lot to do with it and they were pretty corrupt and ruthless people who virtually hijacked the Roman Catholic Papacy and took it for their own personal property and form of absolutist rule, there is however an excellent chapter in the novel Jack Faust, which is a modern retelling of the story of Faust, in which the central protagonist is called before a secret German tribunal at one point and he explains to them how they can circumvent the rules regarding usury as at that time in Christendom it was prohibited too.

    The role of finance capital in the scriptures of the big three is always suspect, I think I recall some assertion that people should only earn their money by direct tradesmanship rather than finance and it relates to other ideas which later socialists, like Proudhon in France, took up about how to resolve the issue of money having an intrinsic value all of its own as opposed to possessing only a use or exchange value. In the fictional universe of 40K the Orcs have a society entirely without inflation because their currency is teeth but the teeth decay and disappear, therefore no one hoards money, saves money and the society is devoid of finance in any traditional sense, its portrayed as richer for it.

    Most of the justification for finance which make sense to me however regard the ready availability of money as loans for enterprise, the firms making the loans can earn a living from interest as the rewards in the economy reflect the risks people are willing to make, in this paradigm risk aversion is worse than the possibility of usury as risk aversion will cause the economy to come to a grinding halt, prevent cycles of creative destruction or price corrections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Survive & Stay Free View Post
    This is interesting, as I understand it this pertains to usury, which technically may not be the same as interest and I believe in many of its articulations in scriptures states that usury can not be exercised with members of the community of believers but may be exercised with strangers, foreigners or non-faith, although this may be a case of technicalities and choosing to discover a way of "bending the rules", it just depends on how literal you decide to interpret the faith.

    I do know some Christians who would never work in finance, of any description, because they believe that the actions of Jesus expelling money changers from the Temple say it all, they also literally interpret rules against usury as prohibiting all forms of interest charges.

    I do not know enough about the emergence of finance in the west, I think the Borgia had a lot to do with it and they were pretty corrupt and ruthless people who virtually hijacked the Roman Catholic Papacy and took it for their own personal property and form of absolutist rule, there is however an excellent chapter in the novel Jack Faust, which is a modern retelling of the story of Faust, in which the central protagonist is called before a secret German tribunal at one point and he explains to them how they can circumvent the rules regarding usury as at that time in Christendom it was prohibited too.

    The role of finance capital in the scriptures of the big three is always suspect, I think I recall some assertion that people should only earn their money by direct tradesmanship rather than finance and it relates to other ideas which later socialists, like Proudhon in France, took up about how to resolve the issue of money having an intrinsic value all of its own as opposed to possessing only a use or exchange value. In the fictional universe of 40K the Orcs have a society entirely without inflation because their currency is teeth but the teeth decay and disappear, therefore no one hoards money, saves money and the society is devoid of finance in any traditional sense, its portrayed as richer for it.

    Most of the justification for finance which make sense to me however regard the ready availability of money as loans for enterprise, the firms making the loans can earn a living from interest as the rewards in the economy reflect the risks people are willing to make, in this paradigm risk aversion is worse than the possibility of usury as risk aversion will cause the economy to come to a grinding halt, prevent cycles of creative destruction or price corrections.
    so youre saying use interest as much as i want? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Survive & Stay Free View Post
    This is interesting, as I understand it this pertains to usury, which technically may not be the same as interest and I believe in many of its articulations in scriptures states that usury can not be exercised with members of the community of believers but may be exercised with strangers, foreigners or non-faith, although this may be a case of technicalities and choosing to discover a way of "bending the rules", it just depends on how literal you decide to interpret the faith.

    I do know some Christians who would never work in finance, of any description, because they believe that the actions of Jesus expelling money changers from the Temple say it all, they also literally interpret rules against usury as prohibiting all forms of interest charges.

    I do not know enough about the emergence of finance in the west, I think the Borgia had a lot to do with it and they were pretty corrupt and ruthless people who virtually hijacked the Roman Catholic Papacy and took it for their own personal property and form of absolutist rule, there is however an excellent chapter in the novel Jack Faust, which is a modern retelling of the story of Faust, in which the central protagonist is called before a secret German tribunal at one point and he explains to them how they can circumvent the rules regarding usury as at that time in Christendom it was prohibited too.

    The role of finance capital in the scriptures of the big three is always suspect, I think I recall some assertion that people should only earn their money by direct tradesmanship rather than finance and it relates to other ideas which later socialists, like Proudhon in France, took up about how to resolve the issue of money having an intrinsic value all of its own as opposed to possessing only a use or exchange value. In the fictional universe of 40K the Orcs have a society entirely without inflation because their currency is teeth but the teeth decay and disappear, therefore no one hoards money, saves money and the society is devoid of finance in any traditional sense, its portrayed as richer for it.

    Most of the justification for finance which make sense to me however regard the ready availability of money as loans for enterprise, the firms making the loans can earn a living from interest as the rewards in the economy reflect the risks people are willing to make, in this paradigm risk aversion is worse than the possibility of usury as risk aversion will cause the economy to come to a grinding halt, prevent cycles of creative destruction or price corrections.
    haven't you ever heard of Islamic banking? "profit and loss sharing" "risk sharing"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    haven't you ever heard of Islamic banking? "profit and loss sharing" "risk sharing"?
    I've heard of it but I dont know anything about it, I heard about London trying to develop new financial products and the whole thing sounded a little like credit unions and mutual associations or building societies, in NI at least the credit unions have gone corporate, or have delusions of grandeur that way, consequently they are not much better than banks and often are worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Survive & Stay Free View Post
    I've heard of it but I dont know anything about it, I heard about London trying to develop new financial products and the whole thing sounded a little like credit unions and mutual associations or building societies, in NI at least the credit unions have gone corporate, or have delusions of grandeur that way, consequently they are not much better than banks and often are worse.
    Islamic Banking
    Islamic banking and finance - Wikipedia

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    Accounting for nonprofits, maybe..?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    I'm Muslim, and part of my faith involves not working with, or buying interest (in finance). (although certain people in my family, im not going to give names, dont listen, but oh well, i try not to be a know it all and dont act "holier-than-thou"). it is referred to in arabic as "riba". it is said that "devouring one dirham (then's currency) of riba is like committing adultery 36 times. " What kind of jobs are there in finance and economics, if there are any, that don't involve work with "riba"?
    Sure, come to Michigan.

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    Our Promise to You | Islamic Home Financing | Low Monthly Payments | Hand-Holding throughout the Process

    I'm certain there is more, these are just the ones I'm familiar with.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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