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Is a History PhD worth it?

Warrior

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I used to be very passionate about history, and even now a little especially as it relates to politics and ethnic and political and regional relations, and I was wondering if a history PhD would be worth it because I would LOVE to get a History PhD and apply my knowledge of history, and the subject I was best at in school was history (Pre-college, i didnt take history this semester)
 

Warrior

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btw, i might be interested in multiple PhD areas at once, like political science, economics, etc. even hard sciences like physics, so don't grill me if i mention in another thread (or this one) something else.....I haven't made up my mind.
 

Yuurei

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Only if you want to teach.

I have a degree in Anthroplogy with a focus on history. It was a,ways just an interst, never expected to make a career of it.
 

Forever

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[MENTION=32163]Littleclaypot[/MENTION]
 

Typh0n

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Doctorates are only good if you want to teach at university level.

Otherwise they make you look too qualified from an employer's pov. The exception being in some fields where they are a requirement.
 

Lark

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Doctorates are only good if you want to teach at university level.

Otherwise they make you look too qualified from an employer's pov. The exception being in some fields where they are a requirement.

Although if they are considering multiple PhD maybe they dont have to work, they could be independently wealthy.

Anyway, I think in some ways your point is well made, even if its a country other than my own, which I have discovered really does not rate academic performance and in which is very, very easy to fall into this "over qualified" bullshit trap, there's a hell of a lot of people in medium to large firms who "worked up from the bottom" or took non-academic routes to their positions and are straight up bitter about others learning.

Which I think is stupid, given that for the most part it just means people have been well read at one time in one particular area or discipline, I know there's skills involved too but I think it boils down to that. I wish there were more smart people but I also wish there was such hang ups about smartness too.

I'd say to Warrior that as important as his core topic is, and he would want to study something that's interesting because I did a masters and I almost hated my choosen topic/area of research by the end of it and it was just a literature review thesis, not what I imagine a research project in a PhD could involve, to consider the extra curriculars and other aspects, as simple as accomodation for instance.

Sometimes I think that a decent array of extra curriculars which can evidence your relationships with others a bit more can counter the whole "over qualified" thing or sometimes it doesnt mean shit and they have internal candidates and what not, study something because you want to do that for a few years.
 

Typh0n

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Although if they are considering multiple PhD maybe they dont have to work, they could be independently wealthy.

Anyway, I think in some ways your point is well made, even if its a country other than my own, which I have discovered really does not rate academic performance and in which is very, very easy to fall into this "over qualified" bullshit trap, there's a hell of a lot of people in medium to large firms who "worked up from the bottom" or took non-academic routes to their positions and are straight up bitter about others learning.

Which I think is stupid, given that for the most part it just means people have been well read at one time in one particular area or discipline, I know there's skills involved too but I think it boils down to that. I wish there were more smart people but I also wish there was such hang ups about smartness too.

I'd say to Warrior that as important as his core topic is, and he would want to study something that's interesting because I did a masters and I almost hated my choosen topic/area of research by the end of it and it was just a literature review thesis, not what I imagine a research project in a PhD could involve, to consider the extra curriculars and other aspects, as simple as accomodation for instance.

Sometimes I think that a decent array of extra curriculars which can evidence your relationships with others a bit more can counter the whole "over qualified" thing or sometimes it doesnt mean shit and they have internal candidates and what not, study something because you want to do that for a few years.

I agree it is too bad that being smart labels you as being "overqualified" and that people see that as a threat. Conversly, I do think that it's good that you don't need to go through 8 years of college to be able to work your way up in the business or professional world, frankly that would be a loss of time.

I think having a masters is fine though, most job ads I run into look for a bachelors and/or masters, having a masters as your highest degree is probably the sweet spot when it comes to finding a job, PhD tends to intimidate people though, I'm not saying it's impossible to find a job with a PhD, you're probably going to have better chances with a PhD than with nothing, it also depends on the field you work in, in science for example a PhD is good I would imagine even in the private sector, though we'd have to ask Coriolis. Summons [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]

I also think academia and the business world value very different things, academia values book smarts where business values street smarts applied to markets and finance, it's naturally a very different mentality as the nature of the work and its finality is very different. I'm not placing one above the other really, I think in life its good to have both book smarts and street smarts, they're not mutually exclusive.
 

SearchingforPeace

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There is an oversupply of PhDs, at least in America. Most recent liberal arts PhDs can not find full time positions in acedmia. It really isn't a good career choice, right now, at least in America.
 

EcK

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I used to be very passionate about history, and even now a little especially as it relates to politics and ethnic and political and regional relations, and I was wondering if a history PhD would be worth it because I would LOVE to get a History PhD and apply my knowledge of history, and the subject I was best at in school was history (Pre-college, i didnt take history this semester)

So you are asking if a phd in a hobby is worth it. As in pay to learn stuff u can learn on your own on the side as a .. hobby? Why? The point of college is to become competent in someyhing that’s marketable, not “finding yourself”.

If you are already interested in a topic there s no reason to assume u dont already have enough motivation to learn on your own.

Also socia sciences are full of socialists - so how unbiased do u think 20th century history is going to be?
 

EcK

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“Quick the servers are crashing, only a historian can save us now”
Replace “servers are crashing” with any business situation that requires a specific skillset and tell me if anyone is likelytk value a history phd.

I hired tens of ppl and honestly if i see history or philosophy phd on someone s resume i m likely to assume the guy s an idiot for studying thay and skip the resume. Except maybe if he / she lists the phd under “hobby” at which point i would still be puzzled by the phd but at least respect that they dont seriously think i was going to consider that qualification as valuable to anyone except academia : ie: ppl who never had a real job
 

Lark

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“Quick the servers are crashing, only a historian can save us now”
Replace “servers are crashing” with any business situation that requires a specific skillset and tell me if anyone is likelytk value a history phd.

I hired tens of ppl and honestly if i see history or philosophy phd on someone s resume i m likely to assume the guy s an idiot for studying thay and skip the resume. Except maybe if he / she lists the phd under “hobby” at which point i would still be puzzled by the phd but at least respect that they dont seriously think i was going to consider that qualification as valuable to anyone except academia : ie: ppl who never had a real job

That sounded like the coolest film ever there for a moment.
 

Forever

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My best advice is take a class from each of the majors you’re most interested in
 

LucieCat

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With the work that goes into any degree, especially an advanced degree, I can't see anyone actually seriously pursuing a PhD in history for the sheer joy of it albeit completing it. Now, I am considering pursuing that path, but I would actually really like to teach at the collegiate level. I suppose I'll at least get my masters because if I don't pursue that I think I'll regret never trying. But the job market is not very good for professors at least in history. My academic advisor told me to think of it this way, "When I was an undergrad, my academic advisor flat out told me not to do it. And there was about 6 to 7 times the number of positions back then."
I'd first focus on undergrad work and take classes in fields that interest you. Professors also have office hours, and you could either pop in or schedule an appointment to talk about grad school and PhD programs.
Also, I wouldn't call any degree useless. History can be applied to a lot of different things. Liberal arts degrees often have a very wide scope as to what you can do with them. They teach you critical thinking, which employers often view favorably. Heck, people have gotten into med or vet school with degrees in history and fine arts.
 

Coriolis

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So you are asking if a phd in a hobby is worth it. As in pay to learn stuff u can learn on your own on the side as a .. hobby? Why? The point of college is to become competent in someyhing that’s marketable, not “finding yourself”.
Sadly, that has become the point of college. The point should be academic accomplishment in your chosen field of interest, not just a glorified (and expensive) job training program.

“Quick the servers are crashing, only a historian can save us now”
It's more like, "The Russians have been slowly moving armored units toward the Polish border for several weeks now, and there is an odd rash of Eisenstein film festivals around the country. Only a historian can figure out what this portends on the world political stage."

I think having a masters is fine though, most job ads I run into look for a bachelors and/or masters, having a masters as your highest degree is probably the sweet spot when it comes to finding a job, PhD tends to intimidate people though, I'm not saying it's impossible to find a job with a PhD, you're probably going to have better chances with a PhD than with nothing, it also depends on the field you work in, in science for example a PhD is good I would imagine even in the private sector, though we'd have to ask Coriolis. Summons [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]
If you want to lead a research team, or be the principal investigator on grants or contracts, you will typically need a PhD, at least in sciences and engineering. This includes jobs in industry and government as well as in academia. Not sure about what is required for humanities. At least in science and engineering, grad students typically earn a stipend and have their tuition covered, so it is not the huge expense it can be in other fields.
 

EcK

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Sadly, that has become the point of college. The point should be academic accomplishment in your chosen field of interest, not just a glorified (and expensive) job training program.

Just imagine for a second that when you give an advice you actually had to invest real money into the outcome.

Would you invest into [MENTION=35211]Warrior[/MENTION] 's HISTORY PHD and expect to get your money back ? Really ?

See that's the beauty of the market, it doesn't lie. It's easy to give bad advice to people based on rehashed ideas that never survive the light of day, it's harder to put your money where your mouth is.

However most adults outside of state sponsored academia have to do that because they'd be living under a bridge otherwise.



It's more like, "The Russians have been slowly moving armored units toward the Polish border for several weeks now, and there is an odd rash of Eisenstein film festivals around the country. Only a historian can figure out what this portends on the world political stage."


If you want to lead a research team, or be the principal investigator on grants or contracts, you will typically need a PhD, at least in sciences and engineering. This includes jobs in industry and government as well as in academia. Not sure about what is required for humanities. At least in science and engineering, grad students typically earn a stipend and have their tuition covered, so it is not the huge expense it can be in other fields.

Spoken like someone who doesn't have a real job.

a) that cliched line about how "we need historians because of some hypothetical situation", yeah sure, it'd be nice to have a handful of these - easily covered by hobbyists. what do you do with the other tens of thousands of people with useless degrees? Let tax payers 'take care of it'? because nothing says useful to society like confusing marketable skills with hobbies.

Clearly, it does speak of good judgment, we should totally trust the views of people who can't figure out what university / college is for and elevate them as wise men and women in the public consciousness. yeah. right.

What other strawmen do you guys use to prop up your egos ? Imagine that the rest of us philistines just can't possibly understand the depth of your non-existent accomplishments? I've studied plenty of topics at PHD levels - in my free time - because they are hobbies. I don't expect to be paid for it because I'm a grown up.
 

biohazard

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I'm of the adage that a college degree means nothing unless you're going to actually use it. I find it's best for science, math, medical, marketing, and economics fields but not so much for liberal arts.

But...

This is your passion. My opinion on your field of choice doesn't matter.

Just my two supportive cents... you are choosing this so make sure you're the best damn fucking historian of our generation. Make yourself better than Howard Zinn (may that crazy bastard RIP).

I do suggest studying the careers of historians that you respect and figuring out how they made themselves so notable within the field. Figure out how they made it and do the same thing. Figure out how you would like your historian career to be and think long term.

So get a game plan down. Work to getting a position at a university or even a major government library. And don't just sit in that job and collect checks. Do projects on your own and WRITE. Publish books, publish bios on famous people, create a podcast or radio show, diversify your income within your field.

Do whatever you can to be the very best... like no one ever was.

2lxup7p.png
 

LucieCat

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Just imagine for a second that when you give an advice you actually had to invest real money into the outcome. Would you invest into @Warrior 's HISTORY PHD and expect to get your money back ? Really ? See that's the beauty of the market, it doesn't lie. It's easy to give bad advice to people based on rehashed ideas that never survive the light of day, it's harder to put your money where your mouth is. However most adults outside of state sponsored academia have to do that because they'd be living under a bridge otherwise. Spoken like someone who doesn't have a real job. a) that cliched line about how "we need historians because of some hypothetical situation", yeah sure, it'd be nice to have a handful of these - easily covered by hobbyists. what do you do with the other tens of thousands of people with useless degrees? Let tax payers 'take care of it'? because nothing says useful to society like confusing marketable skills with hobbies. Clearly, it does speak of good judgment, we should totally trust the views of people who can't figure out what university / college is for and elevate them as wise men and women in the public consciousness. yeah. right. What other strawmen do you guys use to prop up your egos ? Imagine that the rest of us philistines just can't possibly understand the depth of your non-existent accomplishments? I've studied plenty of topics at PHD levels - in my free time - because they are hobbies. I don't expect to be paid for it because I'm a grown up.

Then again, what is a "real job" anyway? Someone who is involved in academia and is a professor has a real job in my opinion. That's sort of like saying a high school teacher doesn't have a real job. Teaching, in my mind, is a very real and important profession at any level. It would be silly to have a University with no professors.

I see college as an opportunity to learn critical thinking skills and to broaden my horizons so I can make my way through the world as a well-educated individual and make a positive impact. Other than the price, I can't see a disadvantage to pursuing education.

Higher education is also a means of social advancement. My mother has a degree she doesn't actually use, but she still found that that experience helps her. If my parents weren't educated, I doubt I would be in a good place where I am now. Education was a means for them to escape poverty and really awful familial situations.
 

Typh0n

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Then again, what is a "real job" anyway? Someone who is involved in academia and is a professor has a real job in my opinion. That's sort of like saying a high school teacher doesn't have a real job. Teaching, in my mind, is a very real and important profession at any level. It would be silly to have a University with no professors.

I see college as an opportunity to learn critical thinking skills and to broaden my horizons so I can make my way through the world as a well-educated individual and make a positive impact. Other than the price, I can't see a disadvantage to pursuing education.

Higher education is also a means of social advancement. My mother has a degree she doesn't actually use, but she still found that that experience helps her. If my parents weren't educated, I doubt I would be in a good place where I am now. Education was a means for them to escape poverty and really awful familial situations.

I think if we're going to have college professors acting like an elite intellectual family, that contributes nothing except an aura of intellectualism, they shouldn't do it on public money. I believe that was his point.

I do think alot of academic culture is about showing how smart you are, sure there is nothing wrong with being smart, nor with showing it off but mental gymnastics should be financed by private money, what does it contribute to the taxpayer to see their money invested in some professor publishing his research on X topic which will have no connection to his life. I'm pretty into intellectual stuff myself and I respect people who are well read and can debate with me, but those are my personal interests.

Not saying that education contributes nothing, btw, if its well done it contributes alot, I agree that teaching critical thinking skills is as important as offereing training for a profession, but critical thinking can be learned outside of public education, whereas with training its either college or an apprenticeship, I'm a big fan of critical thinking I do think it can be taught in school but since it can be learned outside of it I understand why many universities are placing an emphasis on training above socratic method, so to speak.
 

Agent Washington

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Spoken like someone who doesn't have a real job.[...]

What other strawmen do you guys use to prop up your egos ? Imagine that the rest of us philistines just can't possibly understand the depth of your non-existent accomplishments? I've studied plenty of topics at PHD levels - in my free time - because they are hobbies. I don't expect to be paid for it because I'm a grown up.

Teaching is a real job.

Also. ... I'm sure you've written many thesis at PhD levels. So many. In your free time. So accredited, very much wow.
 

Agent Washington

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Try out the courses at college and see where it takes you. Get to know who the professors are, what the criteria for each major will be. You will be with them for at least four years.

You can't plan at this stage because the reality of doing work that SUCKS, with people that suck, will weigh on you and if you persist, you will fail.

Source: Someone who didn't want to do history but ended up doing it, because it was the only viable option, including other practical factors such as "actually getting to finish a degree".
 
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