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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Quick the servers are crashing, only a historian can save us now”
    Replace “servers are crashing” with any business situation that requires a specific skillset and tell me if anyone is likelytk value a history phd.

    I hired tens of ppl and honestly if i see history or philosophy phd on someone s resume i m likely to assume the guy s an idiot for studying thay and skip the resume. Except maybe if he / she lists the phd under “hobby” at which point i would still be puzzled by the phd but at least respect that they dont seriously think i was going to consider that qualification as valuable to anyone except academia : ie: ppl who never had a real job
    That sounded like the coolest film ever there for a moment.
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  2. #12
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    My best advice is take a class from each of the majors you’re most interested in

  3. #13
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    With the work that goes into any degree, especially an advanced degree, I can't see anyone actually seriously pursuing a PhD in history for the sheer joy of it albeit completing it. Now, I am considering pursuing that path, but I would actually really like to teach at the collegiate level. I suppose I'll at least get my masters because if I don't pursue that I think I'll regret never trying. But the job market is not very good for professors at least in history. My academic advisor told me to think of it this way, "When I was an undergrad, my academic advisor flat out told me not to do it. And there was about 6 to 7 times the number of positions back then."
    I'd first focus on undergrad work and take classes in fields that interest you. Professors also have office hours, and you could either pop in or schedule an appointment to talk about grad school and PhD programs.
    Also, I wouldn't call any degree useless. History can be applied to a lot of different things. Liberal arts degrees often have a very wide scope as to what you can do with them. They teach you critical thinking, which employers often view favorably. Heck, people have gotten into med or vet school with degrees in history and fine arts.

  4. #14
    Phase-shifted beam Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    So you are asking if a phd in a hobby is worth it. As in pay to learn stuff u can learn on your own on the side as a .. hobby? Why? The point of college is to become competent in someyhing that’s marketable, not “finding yourself”.
    Sadly, that has become the point of college. The point should be academic accomplishment in your chosen field of interest, not just a glorified (and expensive) job training program.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    “Quick the servers are crashing, only a historian can save us now”
    It's more like, "The Russians have been slowly moving armored units toward the Polish border for several weeks now, and there is an odd rash of Eisenstein film festivals around the country. Only a historian can figure out what this portends on the world political stage."

    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I think having a masters is fine though, most job ads I run into look for a bachelors and/or masters, having a masters as your highest degree is probably the sweet spot when it comes to finding a job, PhD tends to intimidate people though, I'm not saying it's impossible to find a job with a PhD, you're probably going to have better chances with a PhD than with nothing, it also depends on the field you work in, in science for example a PhD is good I would imagine even in the private sector, though we'd have to ask Coriolis. Summons @Coriolis
    If you want to lead a research team, or be the principal investigator on grants or contracts, you will typically need a PhD, at least in sciences and engineering. This includes jobs in industry and government as well as in academia. Not sure about what is required for humanities. At least in science and engineering, grad students typically earn a stipend and have their tuition covered, so it is not the huge expense it can be in other fields.
    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. ~ Buddha

  5. #15
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Sadly, that has become the point of college. The point should be academic accomplishment in your chosen field of interest, not just a glorified (and expensive) job training program.
    Just imagine for a second that when you give an advice you actually had to invest real money into the outcome.

    Would you invest into @Warrior 's HISTORY PHD and expect to get your money back ? Really ?

    See that's the beauty of the market, it doesn't lie. It's easy to give bad advice to people based on rehashed ideas that never survive the light of day, it's harder to put your money where your mouth is.

    However most adults outside of state sponsored academia have to do that because they'd be living under a bridge otherwise.



    It's more like, "The Russians have been slowly moving armored units toward the Polish border for several weeks now, and there is an odd rash of Eisenstein film festivals around the country. Only a historian can figure out what this portends on the world political stage."


    If you want to lead a research team, or be the principal investigator on grants or contracts, you will typically need a PhD, at least in sciences and engineering. This includes jobs in industry and government as well as in academia. Not sure about what is required for humanities. At least in science and engineering, grad students typically earn a stipend and have their tuition covered, so it is not the huge expense it can be in other fields.
    Spoken like someone who doesn't have a real job.

    a) that cliched line about how "we need historians because of some hypothetical situation", yeah sure, it'd be nice to have a handful of these - easily covered by hobbyists. what do you do with the other tens of thousands of people with useless degrees? Let tax payers 'take care of it'? because nothing says useful to society like confusing marketable skills with hobbies.

    Clearly, it does speak of good judgment, we should totally trust the views of people who can't figure out what university / college is for and elevate them as wise men and women in the public consciousness. yeah. right.

    What other strawmen do you guys use to prop up your egos ? Imagine that the rest of us philistines just can't possibly understand the depth of your non-existent accomplishments? I've studied plenty of topics at PHD levels - in my free time - because they are hobbies. I don't expect to be paid for it because I'm a grown up.
    “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
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  6. #16
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    I'm of the adage that a college degree means nothing unless you're going to actually use it. I find it's best for science, math, medical, marketing, and economics fields but not so much for liberal arts.

    But...

    This is your passion. My opinion on your field of choice doesn't matter.

    Just my two supportive cents... you are choosing this so make sure you're the best damn fucking historian of our generation. Make yourself better than Howard Zinn (may that crazy bastard RIP).

    I do suggest studying the careers of historians that you respect and figuring out how they made themselves so notable within the field. Figure out how they made it and do the same thing. Figure out how you would like your historian career to be and think long term.

    So get a game plan down. Work to getting a position at a university or even a major government library. And don't just sit in that job and collect checks. Do projects on your own and WRITE. Publish books, publish bios on famous people, create a podcast or radio show, diversify your income within your field.

    Do whatever you can to be the very best... like no one ever was.

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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Just imagine for a second that when you give an advice you actually had to invest real money into the outcome. Would you invest into @Warrior 's HISTORY PHD and expect to get your money back ? Really ? See that's the beauty of the market, it doesn't lie. It's easy to give bad advice to people based on rehashed ideas that never survive the light of day, it's harder to put your money where your mouth is. However most adults outside of state sponsored academia have to do that because they'd be living under a bridge otherwise. Spoken like someone who doesn't have a real job. a) that cliched line about how "we need historians because of some hypothetical situation", yeah sure, it'd be nice to have a handful of these - easily covered by hobbyists. what do you do with the other tens of thousands of people with useless degrees? Let tax payers 'take care of it'? because nothing says useful to society like confusing marketable skills with hobbies. Clearly, it does speak of good judgment, we should totally trust the views of people who can't figure out what university / college is for and elevate them as wise men and women in the public consciousness. yeah. right. What other strawmen do you guys use to prop up your egos ? Imagine that the rest of us philistines just can't possibly understand the depth of your non-existent accomplishments? I've studied plenty of topics at PHD levels - in my free time - because they are hobbies. I don't expect to be paid for it because I'm a grown up.
    Then again, what is a "real job" anyway? Someone who is involved in academia and is a professor has a real job in my opinion. That's sort of like saying a high school teacher doesn't have a real job. Teaching, in my mind, is a very real and important profession at any level. It would be silly to have a University with no professors.

    I see college as an opportunity to learn critical thinking skills and to broaden my horizons so I can make my way through the world as a well-educated individual and make a positive impact. Other than the price, I can't see a disadvantage to pursuing education.

    Higher education is also a means of social advancement. My mother has a degree she doesn't actually use, but she still found that that experience helps her. If my parents weren't educated, I doubt I would be in a good place where I am now. Education was a means for them to escape poverty and really awful familial situations.

  8. #18
    clever fool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucieCat View Post
    Then again, what is a "real job" anyway? Someone who is involved in academia and is a professor has a real job in my opinion. That's sort of like saying a high school teacher doesn't have a real job. Teaching, in my mind, is a very real and important profession at any level. It would be silly to have a University with no professors.

    I see college as an opportunity to learn critical thinking skills and to broaden my horizons so I can make my way through the world as a well-educated individual and make a positive impact. Other than the price, I can't see a disadvantage to pursuing education.

    Higher education is also a means of social advancement. My mother has a degree she doesn't actually use, but she still found that that experience helps her. If my parents weren't educated, I doubt I would be in a good place where I am now. Education was a means for them to escape poverty and really awful familial situations.
    I think if we're going to have college professors acting like an elite intellectual family, that contributes nothing except an aura of intellectualism, they shouldn't do it on public money. I believe that was his point.

    I do think alot of academic culture is about showing how smart you are, sure there is nothing wrong with being smart, nor with showing it off but mental gymnastics should be financed by private money, what does it contribute to the taxpayer to see their money invested in some professor publishing his research on X topic which will have no connection to his life. I'm pretty into intellectual stuff myself and I respect people who are well read and can debate with me, but those are my personal interests.

    Not saying that education contributes nothing, btw, if its well done it contributes alot, I agree that teaching critical thinking skills is as important as offereing training for a profession, but critical thinking can be learned outside of public education, whereas with training its either college or an apprenticeship, I'm a big fan of critical thinking I do think it can be taught in school but since it can be learned outside of it I understand why many universities are placing an emphasis on training above socratic method, so to speak.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post

    Spoken like someone who doesn't have a real job.[...]

    What other strawmen do you guys use to prop up your egos ? Imagine that the rest of us philistines just can't possibly understand the depth of your non-existent accomplishments? I've studied plenty of topics at PHD levels - in my free time - because they are hobbies. I don't expect to be paid for it because I'm a grown up.
    Teaching is a real job.

    Also. ... I'm sure you've written many thesis at PhD levels. So many. In your free time. So accredited, very much wow.
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  10. #20
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    Try out the courses at college and see where it takes you. Get to know who the professors are, what the criteria for each major will be. You will be with them for at least four years.

    You can't plan at this stage because the reality of doing work that SUCKS, with people that suck, will weigh on you and if you persist, you will fail.

    Source: Someone who didn't want to do history but ended up doing it, because it was the only viable option, including other practical factors such as "actually getting to finish a degree".
    There's no love in fear.
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