Do you have grit? Is grit really a good thing?

[/DG/]

Success in school does not necessarily equate to success in life.

Also I don't have "grit." You don't need that to do well in school either.

 

[/DG/]

People with higher IQ see how pointless education really is, hence suck at it. The sheep who can muster the grit to keep on going, don't question the silly reasons they even have for wanting their education cause they got society's carrot dangling in front of them. There I solved the mystery for ya. I mean who is born saying "i want to study and get a degree so I can get societal approval so i can feel kinda good about myself...if only for a little while, as I wait for my inevitable mid-life crisis" ?

Sorry, but no. I know you want to feel smarter than everyone and say that you don't need school, but it doesn't work that way.

Yes, you can be successful without doing well in school. Is it significantly harder to near impossible? Also yes. If you aren't already born into riches, you'll need a high paying job. In order to get one of those in this day and age, you'll usually need to do well in school for that. Sorry, pal, it's the way the world works.

Does that mean all education is useful? Also no. But I'm not getting into that right now.

tl;dr - Yes, you can become the CEO of a massive and successful company without a degree or any sort of education. Is it feasible that way? No, not really.

 

[Sacrophagus]

People with higher IQ see how pointless education really is, hence suck at it. The sheep who can muster the grit to keep on going, don't question the silly reasons they even have for wanting their education cause they got society's carrot dangling in front of them. There I solved the mystery for ya. I mean who is born saying "i want to study and get a degree so I can get societal approval so i can feel kinda good about myself...if only for a little while, as I wait for my inevitable mid-life crisis" ?

I concur.
It always puzzled me how some students could be able to lick the boots of teachers for wasting our time.
I had few teachers who called bullshit the institutionalized modus operandi and prompted students to think for themselves. Others, were utterly dogmatic. Their way, or the highway.
Yes, please. I'll take the highway to hell and stay my own master and actually coronate my aspiration with success, or be another slave in your collection of lifeless and miserable puppets.

I'd rather not have grit, if it's synonymous to spending time in a useless entreprise.

Sorry, but no. I know you want to feel smarter than everyone and say that you don't need school, but it doesn't work that way.

Yes, you can be successful without doing well in school. Is it significantly harder to near impossible? Also yes. If you aren't already born into riches, you'll need a high paying job. In order to get one of those in this day and age, you'll usually need to do well in school for that. Sorry, pal, it's the way the world works.

Does that mean all education is useful? Also no. But I'm not getting into that right now.

tl;dr - Yes, you can become the CEO of a massive and successful company without a degree or any sort of education. Is it feasible that way? No, not really.

He didn't mention that he doesn't need school. It's a great place to sharpen your knife and tame the beast later. Just, don't be too obedient of the system, and be open to any greater opportunities that appeal to your intuition, instead of counting on "grit".

 

[/DG/]

He didn't mention that he doesn't need school. It's a great place to sharpen your knife and tame the beast later. Just, don't be too obedient of the system, and be open to any greater opportunities that appeal to your intuition, instead of counting on "grit".

You and I evidently did not read the same post because none of that was said in it.

 

[Forever]

I read her book which really is the same she said with a little more info... I only got half way though. Haha not much grit I had I suppose ;p

 

[anticlimatic]

In my experience, some of the teachers expect you to think, though alot don't/don't care.

In my experience the only difference between high school and college is that in college rather than directly feed you what they want you to parrot, they instead feed you the locations of the things they want you to parrot (typically, the library), and make you go hunt down the specific things they want yourself. Step out of the box even a little bit and watch your grade get struck down. If college taught people to think it would defeat their entire original and current goal of generating good machine cogs for the big systems of the world.

 

[burningranger]

I concur.
It always puzzled me how some students could be able to lick the boots of teachers for wasting our time.
I had few teachers who called bullshit the institutionalized modus operandi and prompted students to think for themselves. Others, were utterly dogmatic. Their way, or the highway.
Yes, please. I'll take the highway to hell and stay my own master and actually coronate my aspiration with success, or be another slave in your collection of lifeless and miserable puppets.

I'd rather not have grit, if it's synonymous to spending time in a useless entreprise..

Hear hear!!!! Pitchfork and torches on them muthafuckas!!!! FREEDOM!!!

Sorry, but no. I know you want to feel smarter than everyone and say that you don't need school, but it doesn't work that way.

Yes, you can be successful without doing well in school. Is it significantly harder to near impossible? Also yes. If you aren't already born into riches, you'll need a high paying job. In order to get one of those in this day and age, you'll usually need to do well in school for that. Sorry, pal, it's the way the world works.

Does that mean all education is useful? Also no. But I'm not getting into that right now.

tl;dr - Yes, you can become the CEO of a massive and successful company without a degree or any sort of education. Is it feasible that way? No, not really.

I didn't say you don't need school. I implied people are completely oblivious to the real reasons that motivate them for going to school and that it's not a CONSCIOUS deliberate decision. School should be serving people...NOT the other way around..we shouldn't be mindless drones and taking something and putting it in our lives just because it's the societal status quo. Yet that's what most of us do. I also implied that for the most part it does NOT align with most people naturally arising desires...as kids AND as adults. It's a conditioned idea of "what I need to do to make it in the world".

Your comment about success is syptomatic of this status quo. Who said anything about success? Another vague inherented value that is somehow supposed to be something I want for myself? Who defined it? Is it making money? Then even then I would say education is not a determining factor. Creative, self-responsible people that are self-motivated....will make money any way they want, cause they won't use lack of education as an excuse. There are also A LOT of places that value portfolio, and personal talent much higher than the degree. We see this more and more in last 10 years or so. Who gives a fuck about a degree if you can pull the job off? In some countries they can even pay you less for that. And how many occupations really are completely dependent on a certified higher education degree for you to work in that field. Only a couple. No....education as we have it right now is meant to turn you into an employee. A worker. Not to enpower you at all.

I went to university my friend. It's stupid if you don't have a self-defined reason for being there. If it's aligned with your wants....say you love art...and you feel it would make you practice drawing more....learning about techniques and stuf....that's great. But the only successs a "good major" can guaranteee - see, not all majors are valued in the market as much as the others - is that you'll be doing that for some third party for the next few years (or until retirement *shivers*).

No, it's because we have been dumbed down that there is this FEAR mindset around not having an education. Well...yeah...if you first disenpower a person, tell him to not have any self-awareness and that he is nothing without an education....if he doesn't have some grit to him (see what I did there I used my own definition of grit for this context; if ya don't call that smart I don't how I can help ya ) he'll succumb to peer/parental/societal pressure and make a big decision for his life completely on reflex. AND more importantly - totally out of fear.

 

[Tater]

Everything is bad in extremes, but grit's generally beneficial. Setbacks happen. If you've had a serious setback, grit gets you out of bed in the morning.

One great aspect of grit is that unlike more fixed personality traits, it can be learned.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Everything is bad in extremes, but grit's generally beneficial. Setbacks happen. If you've had a serious setback, grit gets you out of bed in the morning.

One great aspect of grit is that unlike more fixed personality traits, it can be taught.

I wondered how much of it is taught vs. learned.

 

[Tater]

I wondered how much of it is taught vs. learned.

Well, if it's taught, then it's learned.

However, learning isn't exclusive to the process of teaching, and people frequently have to develop it on their own, so technically more of it is learned.

Some of it doesn't occur due to either - it just develops as the brain matures.

 

[ceecee]

I wondered how much of it is taught vs. learned.

I think it's about resilience. Resilience probably can't be taught but it can be learned but I do think there are people who have it, even from a young age.

http://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/pn.47.14.psychnews_47_14_18-a

 

[great_bay]

I've been working for three years for an average of three times a week. Most people cannot do that. I have plenty of grit.

I remember when I first started, I thought people were crazy just for attempting to exercise for years. I wasn't even sure if I can do it. However, I don't even think about exercising. I just go ahead and do lift my weights and jog. I put little thought in attempting to exercise as people put on their shoes.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I've been working for three years for an average of three times a week. Most people cannot do that. I have plenty of grit.

I remember when I first started, I thought people were crazy just for attempting to exercise for years. I wasn't even sure if I can do it. However, I don't even think about exercising. I just go ahead and do lift my weights and jog. I put little thought in attempting to exercise as people put on their shoes.

Hats off to you. I've never kept a consistent exercise regimen for that long. Well, not anything intense at least. I usually manage to do something.

 

[Tomb1]

I believe the colloquial term in sports is heart. Like if I say that player showed a lot of heart. I think grit is the same as that (SP grit versus NT grit is a topic in its own right but speaks to the same quality imo). Of course, a person can have tons of heart and still lose. At the same time, heart usually factors into a person's ability to win in the crunch. The new england patriots comeback took a lot of grit/heart this past superbowl. It's not the only reason they won but they could not have won without it...call it an "it" factor. Muhammad Ali showed a ton of grit in Zaire. I find that people with little heart don't like to step up and challenge themselves. Or they give up too soon in spite of their skill level. It's that talented poker player who just sticks to robbing the 1-2 no limit action tables because he got wiped out once at a higher limit table. That's a guy with no heart.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I believe the colloquial term in sports is heart. Like if I say that player showed a lot of heart. I think grit is the same as that (SP grit versus NT grit is a topic in its own right but speaks to the same quality imo). Of course, a person can have tons of heart and still lose. At the same time, heart usually factors into a person's ability to win in the crunch. The new england patriots comeback took a lot of grit/heart this past superbowl. It's not the only reason they won but they could not have won without it...call it an "it" factor. Muhammad Ali showed a ton of grit in Zaire. I find that people with little heart don't like to step up and challenge themselves. Or they give up too soon in spite of their skill level. It's that talented poker player who just sticks to robbing the 1-2 no limit action tables because he got wiped out once at a higher limit table. That's a guy with no heart.

Love this
Grit/heart overlaps with determination not success, imo. It's a mark of solid character and singular mindedness (rather than blind ambition) that precedes any end goal. It's the journey part of the destination. No pomp; all circumstance.
But I guess these things are tomato, tomahto stuff.

 

[á´…eparted]

I do credit a lot of my academic access to my unwillingness to completely give up and overall ambition, but's not everything.

 

[Bush]

I was being slightly tongue in cheek with my previous post. But for the most part the point still stands. I think IQ is a load of crap....but if ANYONE considers themselves
intelligent then they must have some sort of big-picture view of their lives where a higher education might or might not fit in according to their own needs and desires.

The alternative to not going to college you mean? The world is full of examples. I'm not saying you can't have grit without going to college. I'm saying grit is better
used when applied to your OWN true desires....and not some default approach some fucker in the industrial age thought was a good idea. You only NEED grit when you are doing something you don't love. The fact that most of us ASSUME you are not supposed to love your education is a bad sign of the times indeed.

Ah, we're actually on the same page. And with the same sort of passion about it, too.

I fully agree that there are great opportunities outside of college, but that we don't embrace them nearly as much as we should. College has become the new high school, the new baseline, for no real reason. It's a bubble. Unsustainable. Plopping down $30 grand is just something you have to do..? No matter what..? Fucking really!?

The notion that everyone ought to go that route is itself a purely self-serving and academic one. I say this as a guy who teaches at the grad level.

I'm absolutely floored by some of my friends' trade skills. I don't know if I have the practical knowledge and technical skills to do, say, my own AC repairs. Or do any sort of chef magic. Or take care of a room full of two year olds in an active and nurturing way. I don't say that in a condescending way, either; they're all admirable skill sets.

Mike Rowe is a hero for spreading awareness of, say, trade schools.

"Theoretically, theory is better than everything else." Self-serving. People can go on thinking that way if they'd like. It's possible to be brilliant but incredibly myopic at the same time. There's a real world out there, where theory's but one small aspect.

I agree. I think grit is good, but it's even better when you can apply it toward what you actually want to do.

It's unfortunate that we have artificial barriers in place that make that so difficult to do. I hope we smarten up at some point.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Grits are a wonderful thing!

 

[ceecee]

Ah, we're actually on the same page. And with the same sort of passion about it, too.

I fully agree that there are great opportunities outside of college, but that we don't embrace them nearly as much as we should. College has become the new high school, the new baseline, for no real reason. It's a bubble. Unsustainable. Plopping down $30 grand is just something you have to do..? No matter what..? Fucking really!?

The notion that everyone ought to go that route is itself a purely self-serving and academic one. I say this as a guy who teaches at the grad level.

I'm absolutely floored by some of my friends' trade skills. I don't know if I have the practical knowledge and technical skills to do, say, my own AC repairs. Or do any sort of chef magic. Or take care of a room full of two year olds in an active and nurturing way. I don't say that in a condescending way, either; they're all admirable skill sets.

Mike Rowe is a hero for spreading awareness of, say, trade schools.

"Theoretically, theory is better than everything else." Self-serving. People can go on thinking that way if they'd like. It's possible to be brilliant but incredibly myopic at the same time. There's a real world out there, where theory's but one small aspect.

I agree. I think grit is good, but it's even better when you can apply it toward what you actually want to do.

It's unfortunate that we have artificial barriers in place that make that so difficult to do. I hope we smarten up at some point.

Yes. It worked out very well for my sons, although one got head start in the military. I just wish these jobs were more visible at the HS level. Hard to be interested in something if you don't know about it. I don't understand not loving your education or not desiring education. That doesn't mean college or a degree - it means any skill you have to learn. But this ideology of vilifying education, intelligence and expertise, and raising ignorance to a level of worship, I don't know man. That's a problem and the problem will remain for the people worshiping this new religion of stupid.

 

[StonedPhilosopher]

I fully agree that there are great opportunities outside of college, but that we don't embrace them nearly as much as we should. College has become the new high school, the new baseline, for no real reason. It's a bubble. Unsustainable. Plopping down $30 grand is just something you have to do..? No matter what..? Fucking really!?

A legitimately borderline-retarded kid in my English class last year took the SAT last June.

To give you an idea of what he's like, one time, when the teacher asked what was symbolic about a kid in a story we were reading getting his head forcibly shaved, he raised his hand and said it was symbolic of him not wanting to get his head shaved. Another time, when we were discussing New Zealand for whatever reason, he sincerely warned us not to call them Australians because "they don't like it." The teacher was pretty nice--definitely an ENFJ--but she made the Daria face every time he said something.

I cannot comprehend how anyone who knows him could think that he could get a remotely decent score on the SAT (especially for the English section), let alone succeed in/benefit from college.