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Paying kids to get good grades

Royal Xavier

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Recently an online friend of mine, whom I know fairly well, said that for a few years when she was in school her parents payed her every time she got an A. She payed them the same amount for every B she got. Normally I don't get worked up about money-related issues, but for some reason this didn't sit well with me...maybe it's because my family isn't exactly rich and I've never gotten payed despite the fact that I make mostly A's and a few B's. That was my first reaction, anyway.

But the more I think about it, the more glad I am that they don't pay me...something seems wrong about bribing your kids to get them ahead. If they're as smart as you want them to be, then shouldn't they be able to do this on their own, without getting money involved? On the other hand, if it was actually her idea and she asked them to pay her for making good grades, doesn't that still sort of make it all a lie?

I guess the reason I'm so confused about it is that she's a fairly intelligent and principled person whom I wouldn't expect to get involved with it if it were bad...so am I wrong?
 

redacted

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Yeah this is the reason all the kids from my high school have such fucked up priorities now. I grew up in this stupid rich town, a donut hole in Oakland. Many parents were like this. My parents were kinda like this, except that they punished me insanely much if I didn't get all As. I only got all As one semester since 6th grade, so it made for a pretty ridiculous relationship.

To put that much weight on some letters is pretty much guaranteed to fuck up a child. Then imagine an entire grade of children with this internalized, enforcing their parents' weird ass priorities on their peers because they don't know better.
 

Sunshine

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I think it depends. I got payed all through out school for the As and Bs I got and it didn't do anything bad to me. When I went into college I didn't suddenly start getting Ds and Fs because I wasn't getting paid anymore. I still get As and Bs.

Pressure sucks. Like it sucks when parents pressure their kids to get good grades instead of encouraging them to get good grades.
 

FDG

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I've never got payed for anything grades-related up to the college level. Thakfully now there exist scolarships. However from time to time, say, if I had gotten many As on a row in a particularly difficult part of the program, or if I had been praised particularly strongly by the teachers, they'd give buy me a toy.
 

Metamorphosis

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Recently an online friend of mine, whom I know fairly well, said that for a few years when she was in school her parents payed her every time she got an A. She payed them the same amount for every B she got. Normally I don't get worked up about money-related issues, but for some reason this didn't sit well with me...maybe it's because my family isn't exactly rich and I've never gotten payed despite the fact that I make mostly A's and a few B's. That was my first reaction, anyway.

But the more I think about it, the more glad I am that they don't pay me...something seems wrong about bribing your kids to get them ahead. If they're as smart as you want them to be, then shouldn't they be able to do this on their own, without getting money involved? On the other hand, if it was actually her idea and she asked them to pay her for making good grades, doesn't that still sort of make it all a lie?

I guess the reason I'm so confused about it is that she's a fairly intelligent and principled person whom I wouldn't expect to get involved with it if it were bad...so am I wrong?

Isn't the whole idea of doing well in school essentially so you can save money in college via scholarships and then make more money professionaly?

It's like saying "if people are as hard working as you want them to be, you shouldn't have to pay them OT."
 

Usehername

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I think it's about kids learning about intrinsic rewards. Lessons you learn in grade school are often symbolic more than practical. Kids tend to not be able to see the nuances in life until they're older, and I think that's a simple combination of (lack of) life experience mixed with physiological brain development in neuronal connections.


We used to get a book of our choice at the end of the school year when we had decent grades. I liked my parents' policy on that one.
 

kyuuei

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I think it depends. I got payed all through out school for the As and Bs I got and it didn't do anything bad to me. When I went into college I didn't suddenly start getting Ds and Fs because I wasn't getting paid anymore. I still get As and Bs.

Pressure sucks. Like it sucks when parents pressure their kids to get good grades instead of encouraging them to get good grades.

I never got paid for grades, I was definitely pressured due to poor finances in our family back then, but I was always fearful of bad grades instead of trying to learn from them and move on. It sort of undermined my confidence a bit. I felt like a mistake was fatal almost, like I would surely choke upon entering my home instead of simply thinking "That sucks! Now I don't get that comic book I wanted!" or something.

The thing is, "bribing" albeit an accurate word may be necessary. Children need motivation, and I sure as shit did NOT value my education the way I do now back then. I did it out of fear, not because I had any positive value for school. I think that would have made my school career a lot easier.

Isn't the whole idea of doing well in school essentially so you can save money in college via scholarships and then make more money professionaly?

It's like saying "if people are as hard working as you want them to be, you shouldn't have to pay them OT."

Right. School is your career, and incentives must be there for anyone to succeed at anything, if you have no goal to work toward you won't want to work at all. The diploma is not always the thing most valued, even though they might value it and appreciate the effort put into it later on, it wasn't the focal point for me in school.
 

GZA

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Yeah this is the reason all the kids from my high school have such fucked up priorities now. I grew up in this stupid rich town, a donut hole in Oakland. Many parents were like this. My parents were kinda like this, except that they punished me insanely much if I didn't get all As. I only got all As one semester since 6th grade, so it made for a pretty ridiculous relationship.

To put that much weight on some letters is pretty much guaranteed to fuck up a child. Then imagine an entire grade of children with this internalized, enforcing their parents' weird ass priorities on their peers because they don't know better.

I sort of live in a place like that. I don't think most kids get paid to get good grades, but the expectations are so high and consistent that I think it does fuck soem kids up. It fucked me up in like eighth grade when I was almost failing and I was being given hell for it, only to realize now that it doesn't even matter what your grades are untill grade 12. It's like... everyone's parents are doctors or lawyers or engineers or whatever so you better be really damn good at school or else.

It at least may explain why we have the worst drug problem of any high school in the city (i.e. rich kids+stress=cocaine)

Paying kids would make it worse.
 

redacted

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I sort of live in a place like that. I don't think most kids get paid to get good grades, but the expectations are so high and consistent that I think it does fuck soem kids up. It fucked me up in like eighth grade when I was almost failing and I was being given hell for it, only to realize now that it doesn't even matter what your grades are untill grade 12. It's like... everyone's parents are doctors or lawyers or engineers or whatever so you better be really damn good at school or else.

It at least may explain why we have the worst drug problem of any high school in the city (i.e. rich kids+stress=cocaine)

Paying kids would make it worse.

Heh, sounds exactly the same. And although I understood it intellectually in high school, it really took me a few years after I graduated to really see how ridiculous it all was. People are still so fucked up now, and most of them just finished college -- of course, they just blew threw it with majors they thought they were supposed to do... So much pressure.
 

edcoaching

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Who else has kids on the forum? My son (INFP) did great in grades K-6 when the teachers knew him, challenged him, and let him follow his own lead (like doing his animal report Jeopardy-style with the details under flaps...). Then 7th grade came around with two astoundingly boring teachers. And he would not do the work because he knew he wouldn't learn anything. He was right--the assignments were dumb. He also needed to learn how to play the game, school-style. And we had to live with him and make sure he didn't go off the deep end in depression. Paying for grades (and we didn't pay a whole lot, but they don't get an allowance, either) kept his grades above C's for the most part, until 11th grade when he came to terms with it all. Now he's at his first pick college and doing fine.

Most (not all) IJs seem wired for school--I'd have sold my soul for an A. Most IPs chafe against any schoolwork that goes against their values or principles (unless their top value is good grades). EPs may or may not be motivated--and can easily end up labeled as stars, ringleaders or ADHD. EJs...they vary more...but usually they find something to be in charge of at school...If your child is of a certain type, you may find paying for grades is quite necessary...you can't get inside their heads and motivate them...
 

redacted

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Most (not all) IJs seem wired for school--I'd have sold my soul for an A. Most IPs chafe against any schoolwork that goes against their values or principles (unless their top value is good grades). EPs may or may not be motivated--and can easily end up labeled as stars, ringleaders or ADHD.

Hm. Myself and a few of my IJ friends (INJ) are pretty damn unmotivated when it comes to school. I perform much more like you describe IPs or even EPs (I have ADHD too). It's not that I couldn't have gotten all As, it's just that I don't really care, and I'd rather focus my energy on other things.

My other male INFJ friend probably cares/cared less than I, and two of the INTJs I know don't/didn't care at all either.

I don't think it makes sense to make generalizations about school. I think it has much more to do with nurture than type (not that type doesn't have to do with nurture either).
 

GZA

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Heh, sounds exactly the same. And although I understood it intellectually in high school, it really took me a few years after I graduated to really see how ridiculous it all was. People are still so fucked up now, and most of them just finished college -- of course, they just blew threw it with majors they thought they were supposed to do... So much pressure.
Yah, and it's not that Law School or Medical School is bad or anything, it's that something like a skilled trade is almost looked down on, even though it is just as respectable a career and makes a lot of money depending on what you do. It's actually come to the point here where the stigma against trades jobs has created a huge demand for work with few people willing to train for it. Maybe it's a "class stracture" thing, I don't know.

But yah, it's really sad, I've watched kids I've known my whole life and grown up with get really screwed up from drugs and stuff and I'm guessing a lot of it is from the pressure and expectations (I know the families very well so I know they weren't abused or anything, and there's usually one kid who is a perfect student, too). You can't really help but look at them and think that it just as easily could have been you.
 

animenagai

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i think the word 'bribing' is unnecessarily negative. i love my degree now but as a child, it was honestly something that i felt like i just had to do because of my parents. i didn't love it. i appreciated intelligence but that doesn't mean i'll put in the extra yards to get a top grade. there are 2 sides to this 'bribery'. if used correctly (not overly extravagant with rewards etc.) it can build tools that the child can use all their life, even when the reward is not that obvious or immediate. the negative side is that some kids will not try hard without a defined profit. a lot of society leans towards the latter anyways, in fact, you can label it as a S vs N thing. honestly, it's not as bad as some of you make it look.
 

miked277

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i don't see anything wrong with money for grades. paren't ultimately give their kids money for a variety of items be it in the form of allowance, food or what have you. why not have it be a form of positive reinforcement? and as well, the ultimate message in the end for young adults is that working hard will get you money. why not have the money incentive there for things like school and grades which can have a much more profound impact on a kids life than say, bagging groceries at the local grocery store.
 

Mort Belfry

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Recently an online friend of mine, whom I know fairly well, said that for a few years when she was in school her parents payed her every time she got an A. She payed them the same amount for every B she got.
...
I guess the reason I'm so confused about it is that she's a fairly intelligent and principled person whom I wouldn't expect to get involved with it if it were bad...so am I wrong?

Yep. You're wrong. It's spelt PAID not PAYED.
 

edcoaching

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I don't think it makes sense to make generalizations about school. I think it has much more to do with nurture than type (not that type doesn't have to do with nurture either).

Except I wasn't generalizing. The stuff came from research. However...INTJs and INFJs will shut down at any school that emphasizes rote learning over anaysis/synthesis/construction of knowledge and doesn't allow for independent pursuit of topics of interest. Unfortunately, most AP courses emphasize rote learning (there are fantastic exceptions but usually it's cram for the test). Here's what a whole ton of studies show:
  • INTJs and INFJs have the highest GPAs on average, with ISTJs close behind.
  • INFPs and INTPs have higher IQs (not that this measures intelligence but it does correlate with the junk that schools usually honor as thinking skills)
  • SP's make up about 90% of students in alternative schools. Note that not that high a % of the population ends up in alternative high schools but it shows how little the needs of these students are met...
  • Although 75% of the population prefers Sensing, 82% of the Merit Scholarships, based on the PSAT, go to Intuitives. This is after leveling the playing field for who's taken the most AP classes. On the SAT, there's a 250 point average difference between the highest-scoring type and lowest-scoring. The test is extremely biased in favor of the Intuitive style fo guessing. It was written by Intuitives...
  • EPs are most likely to be misdiagnosed as ADHD;IPs as ADD. All types can have these conditions but the misdiagnosis usually falls in these categories.

What I'm seeing is more and more rote learning in the wake of No Child Left Behind, demotivating rather than improving the performance of bright children of every type...
 

Royal Xavier

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Yep. You're wrong. It's spelt PAID not PAYED.

Thanks Mort, that's all I needed to know :p

Seriously though, I'm seeing a lot of posts about pressure and how it messes up kids. So maybe it has to do with the situation. Perhaps if kids are already smart enough to get good grades but just need some extra encouragement, a little payment wouldn't be so bad(though a tutor would probably be better). But if the kid is obviously headed nowhere academically, what use is it to pressure them, particularly if it makes the situation worse like dissonance and GZA pointed out?
 

substitute

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well what gets me is that the kid's being paid to do something from which only they themselves benefit anyway. If a kid is smart and is made to realize that this is THEIR future they're investing in... that ought to be all the payment they need. Paying them in the short term is kinda like going against the idea of deferred gratification, somewhat...

then again, the school system was started partly to ensure that child labour, such as existed in the Victorian period, was stamped out. the kids got paid for sweeping chimneys or cleaning floors or scooping up horse shit, even if it was only a pittance... if society benefits in the end as well as the kid themselves, from the kid applying themselves at school, maybe it's not so wrong that they should expect a little compensation... after all, when the kid grows up they might be just as happy in a moderately paid job, paying far less in taxes, that they can get by just graduating high school... if they're to put in all the extra effort it takes to reach the higher wage brackets, maybe they should get something back for it since they continue giving even after they've left college...
 

Gen

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We spoon feed babies until they learn how to feed themselves. We keep them away from dangerous objects until they learn that these object might cause them harm. We do the best we can to keep them safe, instill the values and teach the lessons that we think they will need for a happy successful adult life.

One of the most often heard statements of my life from those in midlife: kids just don't understand how important education really is.

Whatever you can do to instill the importance of learning, or at least get them to a place where they have enough options, when they reach 18 and don't have to follow your rules any more, is what you should do. As they say, they'll thank you for it later.
 
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