Balancing Work + School

[violet_crown]

This year, I made the decision to take the plunge and go back to school. I have a full-time job that's pretty demanding, and had been hoping that I would be able to manage both at the same time. I'll be in summer school starting in June to knock out a few prereqs before starting the application process and have been making an effort to get back into the habit of studying for at least an hour a night. So far, it has not gone well.

I finish work and I'm just wiped at the end of the day. It makes me really really concerned about how realistic my plan to work while in school actually is. I love my job, and don't want to leave it, so I'm torn about whether school is actually the right choice after all. That said, I'm planning to take my career in a slightly different direction than what I've done up until now, and the trajectory I've charted will take at least 4-5 years to complete. I'm going to be 27 in June, so I feel this is probably my last real window to make a "big move" like this realistically.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

[prplchknz]

[MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION]. she's probably the best example and is an 8. but i don't know if she worked full time. or not. she's also kind of crazy in the she had 3 majors but you also seem the type to work your self to death, and some how still be fine. I don't understand you 8's.

 

[á´…eparted]

I'm going to be blunt: Unless working full time is absolutely essential, then working full time and going to school full is foolish and a waste of time. [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION] remind me what you're going to school for again? I want to say physics, but I might be mixing it up with something else. I ask because school focus does change the dynamic some.

If one of them is part time, then it's managable if one of the loads is low enough. When I was in college I had a job on top of school (classes and research- I majored in chemistry) sophmore year until I graduated. On average I worked 12 hours a week, and school took up on average 45 hours. Any more than that and I would fall off the wagon in some form. Even then, my job was such that I could do school work while I was at work and still do my job effectively (security night shift of a dorm).

If you're wiped at the end of the day, that is a warning sign to me. When you were in college for your previous degree did you work at all? If so how much?

 

[violet_crown]

I'm going to be blunt: Unless working full time is absolutely essential, then working full time and going to school full is foolish and a waste of time. [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION] remind me what you're going to school for again? I want to say physics, but I might be mixing it up with something else. I ask because school focus does change the dynamic some.

If one of them is part time, then it's managable if one of the loads is low enough. When I was in college I had a job on top of school (classes and research- I majored in chemistry) sophmore year until I graduated. On average I worked 12 hours a week, and school took up on average 45 hours. Any more than that and I would fall off the wagon in some form. Even then, my job was such that I could do school work while I was at work and still do my job effectively (security night shift of a dorm).

If you're wiped at the end of the day, that is a warning sign to me. When you were in college for your previous degree did you work at all? If so how much?

Yeah it's for a physics degree. I've actually started drawing down my role a bit a work simply to accommodate the change. I'm not sure how I would be able to go to school if I'm not working though. I'm looking into scholarship options, financial aid, etc, but I'm not taking out anymore loans. Ever again. For any reason lol.

When I was undergrad I had pretty demanding extracurricular schedule. One year in particular, I started a small microlending program, did an internship, had a part-time job, was consulting for an on-campus paper and was also a member of a dance company while holding down 18 hours. I had pretty much no social life and my grades were nothing to write home about, though lol. Also, sleep was not really a thing... The next year I had a slightly saner schedule. I had a leadership role at a meditation center and got talked into directing communications strategy for a special issues advocacy campaign, still danced and picked up studio art. That was on 15 hrs, so my grades were better. That said, I was also a lot younger than I am now. I was 18 the first year and 19 the next year, so I had a lot more energy than my old ass does now.

 

[EJCC]

Subscribed!

Also, question: do you know why specifically you're tired at the end of the day? What is it about your current job that's so exhausting? Maybe working on easing up on one of those stressors, or changing your perspective on it, could help some once you add grad school to the mix.

 

[á´…eparted]

Yeah it's for a physics degree. I've actually started drawing down my role a bit a work simply to accommodate the change. I'm not sure how I would be able to go to school if I'm not working though. I'm looking into scholarship options, financial aid, etc, but I'm not taking out anymore loans. Ever again. For any reason lol.

When I was undergrad I had pretty demanding extracurricular schedule. One year in particular, I started a small microlending program, did an internship, had a part-time job, was consulting for an on-campus paper and was also a member of a dance company while holding down 18 hours. I had pretty much no social life and my grades were nothing to write home about, though lol. Also, sleep was not really a thing... The next year I had a slightly saner schedule. I had a leadership role at a meditation center and got talked into directing communications strategy for a special issues advocacy campaign, still danced and picked up studio art. That was on 15 hrs, so my grades were better. That said, I was also a lot younger than I am now. I was 18 the first year and 19 the next year, so I had a lot more energy than my old ass does now.

I asked someone about your situation (ironically enough it's the ENTP I was talking about in vent yesterday- that was his undergrad and now he's in grad school for nuclear engineering, and I'd venture on par with your intelligence level), so I'll chime in with his reaction when he replies. Come to think of it [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] would be an excellent resource here too.

For how I see it, if you're going to major in physics, you won't be able to work your job more than 20 hours a week (and even then IMO that's too much). Physics is DIFFICULT, and unless you're a genius at physics with a huge passion, I absolutely garuntee you will eventually hit a point where the required work load will force your hand and you'll have to drop something. I'm not being negative on purpose, but STEM majors have a reputation for a reason. In physics you're simply going to have to spend a ton of hours drilling, and drilling, and drilling at the material, constantly working problems, practicing, and reading/digesting material. It simply takes a lot of focused man hours. In any stem major, there almost always will always be a branch in the major that doesn't come with easy and you have to force (for me in my major it was pchem, something you'll eventually take an equivalent course in- quantum mechanics. It comes easy essentially no one). Those branches don't last much longer than a year, but if you are working at the same time while going through it, well, it's gonna be a challenge.

At any rate, I think going the summer classes is worth it. It will give you a good sense of what it will be like to balance school and work. If that checks out, then start taking the physics courses. When doing that, if you experience a lot of pressure and think to yourself "this is kind of close to my limit", then you will absolutely need to drop work as the difficulty ramps high and quick, and it does not die down very much. Don't get me wrong, I think you could do it. You're intelligent enough and driven enough to do so. The issue at hand is there are simply not enough hours in the day, and given the way you described your experiences in undergrad I don't see you in the super-human category to pull this off (very, very few people are).

If you're resolute about it, going to school part time could be an option for you to consider. That would double your time in school though.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

This year, I made the decision to take the plunge and go back to school. I have a full-time job that's pretty demanding, and had been hoping that I would be able to manage both at the same time. I'll be in summer school starting in June to knock out a few prereqs before starting the application process and have been making an effort to get back into the habit of studying for at least an hour a night. So far, it has not gone well.

I finish work and I'm just wiped at the end of the day. It makes me really really concerned about how realistic my plan to work while in school actually is. I love my job, and don't want to leave it, so I'm torn about whether school is actually the right choice after all. That said, I'm planning to take my career in a slightly different direction than what I've done up until now, and the trajectory I've charted will take at least 4-5 years to complete. I'm going to be 27 in June, so I feel this is probably my last real window to make a "big move" like this realistically.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

I have worked full time and gone to school full time and I just didn't have the energy or organizational skills to do that for more than a year. I felt like a robot and wasn't enjoying life. It was crazy stressful. I am not an ENTJ and I find ETJ's can take a much heavier work load and be amazing at all of it.

I will say that at 27, I changed careers and I also did it again at 34, starting from scratch. So, it is never too late. It's a lot of pressure to think that this is your last chance at it.

If I were to offer advice, I would err on the side of taking one less class a semester, if possible. Maybe shoot for 5-6 years. That is me though. Are you taking classes in summer? That is also a good place to spread out your work load throughout the year, rather than in the fall/spring. Gives a bit of a breather that way.

 

[erm]

When I was undergrad I had pretty demanding extracurricular schedule. One year in particular, I started a small microlending program, did an internship, had a part-time job, was consulting for an on-campus paper and was also a member of a dance company while holding down 18 hours. I had pretty much no social life and my grades were nothing to write home about, though lol. Also, sleep was not really a thing... The next year I had a slightly saner schedule. I had a leadership role at a meditation center and got talked into directing communications strategy for a special issues advocacy campaign, still danced and picked up studio art. That was on 15 hrs, so my grades were better. That said, I was also a lot younger than I am now. I was 18 the first year and 19 the next year, so I had a lot more energy than my old ass does now.

Fucking Js

 

[violet_crown]

I asked someone about your situation (ironically enough it's the ENTP I was talking about in vent yesterday- that was his undergrad and now he's in grad school for nuclear engineering, and I'd venture on par with your intelligence level), so I'll chime in with his reaction when he replies. Come to think of it [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] would be an excellent resource here too.

For how I see it, if you're going to major in physics, you won't be able to work your job more than 20 hours a week (and even then IMO that's too much). Physics is DIFFICULT, and unless you're a genius at physics with a huge passion, I absolutely garuntee you will eventually hit a point where the required work load will force your hand and you'll have to drop something. I'm not being negative on purpose, but STEM majors have a reputation for a reason. In physics you're simply going to have to spend a ton of hours drilling, and drilling, and drilling at the material, constantly working problems, practicing, and reading/digesting material. It simply takes a lot of focused man hours. In any stem major, there almost always will always be a branch in the major that doesn't come with easy and you have to force (for me in my major it was pchem, something you'll eventually take an equivalent course in- quantum mechanics. It comes easy essentially no one). Those branches don't last much longer than a year, but if you are working at the same time while going through it, well, it's gonna be a challenge.

At any rate, I think going the summer classes is worth it. It will give you a good sense of what it will be like to balance school and work. If that checks out, then start taking the physics courses. When doing that, if you experience a lot of pressure and think to yourself "this is kind of close to my limit", then you will absolutely need to drop work as the difficulty ramps high and quick, and it does not die down very much. Don't get me wrong, I think you could do it. You're intelligent enough and driven enough to do so. The issue at hand is there are simply not enough hours in the day, and given the way you described your experiences in undergrad I don't see you in the super-human category to pull this off (very, very few people are).

If you're resolute about it, going to school part time could be an option for you to consider. That would double your time in school though.

Your feedback here is very, very reasonable. Part of the reason I think I could get away with the schedule I had in college was because I was a political science major, and it's not as demanding as a STEM field. I think I know that I'm going to have to choose and I'm just trying to see if there's a way around it. It frightens me to make that kind of leap, especially when I've worked so hard to get where I am now. It just seems like a pipe dream.

I have worked full time and gone to school full time and I just didn't have the energy or organizational skills to do that for more than a year. I felt like a robot and wasn't enjoying life. It was crazy stressful. I am not an ENTJ and I find ETJ's can take a much heavier work load and be amazing at all of it.

I will say that at 27, I changed careers and I also did it again at 34, starting from scratch. So, it is never too late. It's a lot of pressure to think that this is your last chance at it.

If I were to offer advice, I would err on the side of taking one less class a semester, if possible. Maybe shoot for 5-6 years. That is me though. Are you taking classes in summer? That is also a good place to spread out your work load throughout the year, rather than in the fall/spring. Gives a bit of a breather that way.

I think the feeling of "last chance" is that my career has had a reasonable trajectory so far, and if it continues to progress in this way, then I will increasingly be in roles that I can't just up and leave from. I'm kind of at that point now, which is why I'm making adjustments to make my transition out (if and when it comes) as minimally disruptive as possible.

I'm looking right now at doing school on a year round schedule at about 9-12 hours/semester. I looked at the programs for the two schools that I will be applying to and will be able to reasonably complete both in about two years.

Could I ask what it was like changing careers? Did you feel anxious when you did it? What surprised you most about the experience?

Fucking Js

I don't know if it helps, but it honestly doesn't occur to me most of the time the amount that I get involved with or that it's necessarily meaningful. My peers in college were very bright, impressive people. I felt like a fuck up most of the time I was in school, because I was for the most part. My advisor was genuinely surprised that I graduated on time. I don't feel terribly comfortable in academic settings, which is another reason why this experience of going back is so unnerving for me. It's just there's things I want to create and work on afterwards that I feel I need more education for, and if I didn't believe so much in those things, I would never go back.

 

[EJCC]

Fucking Js

^ Can confirm. Rex's and my alma mater is a J magnet.

 

[1487610420]

This year, I made the decision to take the plunge and go back to school. I have a full-time job that's pretty demanding, and had been hoping that I would be able to manage both at the same time. I'll be in summer school starting in June to knock out a few prereqs before starting the application process and have been making an effort to get back into the habit of studying for at least an hour a night. So far, it has not gone well.


I finish work and I'm just wiped at the end of the day. It makes me really really concerned about how realistic my plan to work while in school actually is. I love my job, and don't want to leave it, so I'm torn about whether school is actually the right choice after all. That said, I'm planning to take my career in a slightly different direction than what I've done up until now, and the trajectory I've charted will take at least 4-5 years to complete. I'm going to be 27 in June, so I feel this is probably my last real window to make a "big move" like this realistically.


Does anyone have any experience with this?

Yeah it's for a physics degree. I've actually started drawing down my role a bit a work simply to accommodate the change. I'm not sure how I would be able to go to school if I'm not working though. I'm looking into scholarship options, financial aid, etc, but I'm not taking out anymore loans. Ever again. For any reason lol.


When I was undergrad I had pretty demanding extracurricular schedule. One year in particular, I started a small microlending program, did an internship, had a part-time job, was consulting for an on-campus paper and was also a member of a dance company while holding down 18 hours. I had pretty much no social life and my grades were nothing to write home about, though lol. Also, sleep was not really a thing... The next year I had a slightly saner schedule. I had a leadership role at a meditation center and got talked into directing communications strategy for a special issues advocacy campaign, still danced and picked up studio art. That was on 15 hrs, so my grades were better. That said, I was also a lot younger than I am now. I was 18 the first year and 19 the next year, so I had a lot more energy than my old ass does now.

I have worked full time and gone to school full time and I just didn't have the energy or organizational skills to do that for more than a year. I felt like a robot and wasn't enjoying life. It was crazy stressful. I am not an ENTJ and I find ETJ's can take a much heavier work load and be amazing at all of it.

I will say that at 27, I changed careers and I also did it again at 34, starting from scratch. So, it is never too late. It's a lot of pressure to think that this is your last chance at it.

If I were to offer advice, I would err on the side of taking one less class a semester, if possible. Maybe shoot for 5-6 years. That is me though. Are you taking classes in summer? That is also a good place to spread out your work load throughout the year, rather than in the fall/spring. Gives a bit of a breather that way.

it's not the destination, it's the journey. Perception is everything.

/advice

 

[violet_crown]

^ Can confirm. Rex's and my alma mater is a J magnet.

It's funny looking back on it now. Like, our school in particular was like majoring in Game of Thrones for four years with ALL the shit that comes with that (possibly less beheadings).

I remember when I would come home for break, my parents had a pretty strictly enforced like 24 hour decompression period for me because I would be so revved up, and it was just NOT going to fly in an old school Southern household.

it's not the destination, it's the journey. Perception is everything.

/advice

Thank you for posting this.

 

[EJCC]

I remember when I would come home for break, my parents had a pretty strictly enforced like 24 hour decompression period for me because I would be so revved up, and it was just NOT going to fly in an old school Southern household.

I am so reassured to know that this happened to you too! I'd come home every Christmas and it would take me at least a day to cool off from that quasi-manic "I NEED TO DO THINGS, WHERE ARE THE THINGS FOR ME TO DO" mindset. My parents didn't establish an ultimatum or anything, but they'd definitely sit and watch with some amusement and mild concern, as I ran around the house looking for a way to be productive.

 

[á´…eparted]

Your feedback here is very, very reasonable. Part of the reason I think I could get away with the schedule I had in college was because I was a political science major, and it's not as demanding as a STEM field. I think I know that I'm going to have to choose and I'm just trying to see if there's a way around it. It frightens me to make that kind of leap, especially when I've worked so hard to get where I am now. It just seems like a pipe dream.

Don't get me wrong, you had to work your tushy off to get to where you are, and political science is not easy (I would so fail ), and what I have said or will say is in no way an attempt, or even intended to minimize non-stem paths or somehow make them seem lesser or easier. It's more that STEM majors are simply a different kind of challenging, one that is more time consuming to nail down, and it's one where pulling shit out of your ass last minute is very very rarely an effective option. People still try and that shit gets shoved right back up their asses, and oh man does it hurt (it's happened to me, and I see it happen to my ochem students with regular frequency).

I know your alma mater has a reputation for people having a crap ton of extracurricular activities and little sleep (I've read the articles ), but from what I observed stem majors never do that. They can't. Either way I have a pretty good sense of how you feel, I get stuck in that "there's no good options... well FUCK YOU! I will MAKE another option goddamnit. Just try and stop me!" thought often enough that people tell me to stop it. Life will often force your hand. However, sometimes you can thread the needle just right that it's worth risking it. Hence, it's so tempting to say fuck you to bad situations.

I'm looking right now at doing school on a year round schedule at about 9-12 hours/semester. I looked at the programs for the two schools that I will be applying to and will be able to reasonably complete both in about two years.

The bold does change things slightly, that might, maybe be reasonable. There's an old rule of "for every credit, expect to spend 4 hours per week of work including class time", so in theory it'd be an expected 32-48 hours per week. It's a general figure, but it gives a decent estimate of the amount of time you'd on average need to put into be successful. Also, you plan on on finishing this in 2 years, how? I've been assuming you're going for a BS degree, and 4 years of time. Unless the time is reduced because you don't need to take core classes due to already having a BS degree?

I don't know if it helps, but it honestly doesn't occur to me most of the time the amount that I get involved with or that it's necessarily meaningful. My peers in college were very bright, impressive people. I felt like a fuck up most of the time I was in school, because I was for the most part. My advisor was genuinely surprised that I graduated on time. I don't feel terribly comfortable in academic settings, which is another reason why this experience of going back is so unnerving for me. It's just there's things I want to create and work on afterwards that I feel I need more education for, and if I didn't believe so much in those things, I would never go back.

If it's not too personal, would you mind explaining what your creative goals are? I'm having a hard time connecting the dots between how your current situation would somehow mix with going into physics, or inspire such a thing. I'd also be a bit wary if you're uncomforable in academic settings. The "academic" aspect is a lot more intense in a stem major.

 

[Yama]

I wish I could give some sort of good advice here, but honestly I don't know about your money/living situation and how it affects you. I get to live at my dad's for free while I go to school, and I don't work at the same time. My friend works part-time and goes to school full-time, and he can handle that, but has little time for anything else. I'm not sure it's actually possible to have a comfortable balance between full-time work and full-time school today. But if working full-time is something you can't give up, that makes it a lot more difficult.

Temporary advice: Even if you feel like you don't have enough time to do everything you need to do for both work and school in a day because of exhaustion, make sure you still get a full night's rest--no cutting sleep hours, or it'll really bite you in the ass, sooner rather than later.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Could I ask what it was like changing careers? Did you feel anxious when you did it? What surprised you most about the experience?

I was ready to change. The last two years, I couldn't see any of my best and most known qualities in myself anymore. I didn't like who I was. My biggest anxiety was money. I would lose a big amount starting from scratch and that kept me in that cycle of misery.

What surprised me is why I didn't do it sooner. I now make more than I did at the height of my last job and it took me a year to get there and I'm happy...relaxed. My old self but I did start at the bottom with pay.

Now, what I would do differently is this: I should have started putting away money as soon as I started wanting to leave that job.

Ideally, having enough money for 6-12 months of rent is perfect before leaving that job for the new career. I took the opportunity when it came to me for the new job and didn't think much. I sort of always trust those things to work out and they usually do.

I got into a couple grand in debt but have paid that off. So, I was living by the seat of my pants and in hindsight probably should have prepared a bit more financially for when the opportunity came.

 

[uumlau]

I think you MIGHT be able to manage part-time work and full time school, or full time work and part time school, but not both.

And physics? Take it from someone with a PhD in it who went through 12 years of higher education in physics: you really need to know what you're getting into.

What is your degree FOR? To find a career in physics? There are no careers in physics except for those who are VERY GOOD at it, or are willing to work at crappy jobs in the hopes that they might find something that eventually fits.

Is it for the STEM degree itself? There are other STEM degrees that are easier that will garner as much respect. But even then, that's no guarantee of anything. I've heard remarks 3rd-hand along the lines of HR types saying, "A PhD in physics? What does that have to do with software development in banking?"

In interviews, the interviewers don't say, "Wow, you got a PhD in physics? That's impressive." No, they say, "Oh, you went to the University of Texas at Austin? Good school!" (I never moved away from Austin, so as often as not, employers recognize their alma mater.)

So ... I'm not trying to talk you out of anything, but I am currently very skeptical of the value of "getting a degree" vs "learning new skills and changing careers". The latter usually doesn't require exorbitant amounts of money.

What is your primary career goal? That's kind of key, here. Why do you need a degree as opposed to training/certification?

 

[Virtual ghost]

I see that I am taged but I simply don't know enough about jobs and education in your country to offer something of real detailed relevance. Just be sure that this is what you trully want and that you don't overextend in your desires.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

As someone with too many degrees, I really suggest that anyone looking to go to back to school after their BA/BS be extremely clear as to the reality of what they are getting into, as isn’t profitable or useful in many cases. They really need an exact understanding of what they want and what the field is like today.....

 

[EcK]

This year, I made the decision to take the plunge and go back to school. I have a full-time job that's pretty demanding, and had been hoping that I would be able to manage both at the same time. I'll be in summer school starting in June to knock out a few prereqs before starting the application process and have been making an effort to get back into the habit of studying for at least an hour a night. So far, it has not gone well.

I finish work and I'm just wiped at the end of the day. It makes me really really concerned about how realistic my plan to work while in school actually is. I love my job, and don't want to leave it, so I'm torn about whether school is actually the right choice after all. That said, I'm planning to take my career in a slightly different direction than what I've done up until now, and the trajectory I've charted will take at least 4-5 years to complete. I'm going to be 27 in June, so I feel this is probably my last real window to make a "big move" like this realistically.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Don't do it. School is silly.
I know what you're thinking, upper management has lots of MBAs etc. Fine if you want.
Studying is for dumb people who can't learn on their own and use a diploma as a subtitute for intelligence.
I get that is a minimum amount of diploma needed. But once you have it just, fuck it, how many more years of our lives do they want from us.

I still think actually using the same time to work does more for one's career but hey.