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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Yeah he's really an enfp. I'm sure of it. So is he.
    I think he's just under a lot of stress. He works with an INTP who's apparently always like 2 weeks/2 months late on everything so he for example goes crazy if im 10 minutes late to anything. I do admit i shouldn't be late in the first place, but my point is
    a) that I am sometimes late doesn't mean he gets to blame me for other things that are due to him not reviewing the work (ie: if he wanted something another way and only tells me at the end of the project). I'm neither stupid not incompetent, there are some things I wont do in a project due to budget restrictions. If he wants to have his view of the project in the project he can either do it himself or comment on the project early on, not when all is finished.
    He's been having this obession with 'fixing all issues with his work' lately. The issue is that he can't expect other people to fix his own fuckups. He already stopped working with alot of people who according to him are 'messing up his work'. The thing is that alot of the time I think he's just essentially blaming people for not being a perfect fit for his work style. It's not a proof of incompetence that someone is not your "clone without any of your flaws".

    ^^Okay, I understand a bit better what you are describing and just so you know I became somewhat like that for a period of time at my previous position. I was one of two subordinates though under a well-liked ESFJ supervisor that literally snapped one day (which came out later by way of her family's intervention that she had had some sort of mental break but no one knew it at the time)...and between an ENFP and ISFJ...which subordinate do you think became the target of the whole of her insanity? The primary problem for me was...because there had never been an issue in the past it took me a while to snap...or it took me a while to no longer make excuses/passes for her behavior in my mind and/or give weight to what she said and did.

    And so after getting blasted for being late I did sometimes say things like "wtf? Did you notice Dick, Jane and Spot were all late as well?...there was a fucking accident." And I did become aggressive with the people my deadlines were dependent on when there were delays, etc. So yah, I do recognize what you say of him. For me it wasn't so much that the job wasn't a good fit it was more like..."do you know how hard it is for me to maintain any job? And if I can do it...? So can fuckin you." <-This was short-lived though. Once I got busted for bringing the wrong color shade of napkin to an informal potluck I was like "Okay, this has nothing to do with me" and I approached the Dean.

    Without the extreme pressure from an authority figure I had actually respected at one time... I can't think of what conditions would bring about that type of behavior in me though. Normally, I love and adore people making mistakes in the workplace...I want to kiss and hug them <-never bothered by people's fuck-ups. And obscenely fast approaching deadlines aren't a problem either since that merely sums up the entirety of my school experience and is when I do my best work so... I don't know why he is putting this pressure on himself. But in the language of the forum he's most likely a 7 disintegrating to 1.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Off topic post -

    Whatever you do dear entps dont fall in love with enfps.

    Breaks hearts they will.

    ^ wise old man

    Ive seen photographs of you riva and imagine you have made mince-meat out of many hearts in your time

  3. #23
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Ive seen photographs of you riva and imagine you have made mince-meat out of many hearts in your time
    Wait. How did you know Riva used to be my wing man ? Mh. Actually no, I was a bit shy growing up I think, and quite monogamous, and hopelessly in love for long bouts of time. I don't think i'd have known if someone liked me unless they tatooed my name on their foreheads.
    It's different for a guy: you're supposed to initiate etc. and women think it's perfectly fine to shut you down with disdain just because u didnt approach in the right context or something. Then I simply wasn't interested in alot of the women interested in me when I finally started getting a clue.
    I kind of made up for that in later years. I don't know how many women i've slept with. Maybe 10? More? I don't think I give a shit in all honesty. So I wouldn't call myself a womanizer. I did care about a few but I tended to have other priorities in life at the time. Dunno about Riva though.

    At the end of the day I always pick someone who understand me and who I can talk to over short term gratification, but that's not-so-easy to find.

    You're an enfp so if you have some good looks and swagger I imagine there's quite a few guys ready to 'help you move if you ask' and solidly rooted into the friend zone in every harbor. Its okey they deserve it for being huge suckers.

    I've had one relationship with an enfp, it was kinda full of sparkles. In a good way. It was cut short due to her departure from the country, so I have no clue what would have been or not. I don't have any regrets though. Just thought it was an interesting time. I've had uhh. lemmethink. 3 relationships with infjs, which is a bit freaky statistically speaking, the last one pretty much hunted me down so I'm innocent of any pro-active heart mincing. some sort of fuckbuddy arrangement with an entp, I think I was a bit of an ass to her, I regret it a bit sometimes. She was very smart but I didn't feel any heart-to-heart connection and she had an alcohol problem. All in all 4 "real" relationships. So we're not talking don juan here.

    Do I detect a bit of an entp fetish/crush @Starry ?
    If it's to do with the hair I've lost quite a few since : P.

    Edit: 1h later *facepalm* 4 infjs not 3
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
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    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
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    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #24
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    ^^Okay, I understand a bit better what you are describing and just so you know I became somewhat like that for a period of time at my previous position. I was one of two subordinates though under a well-liked ESFJ supervisor that literally snapped one day (which came out later by way of her family's intervention that she had had some sort of mental break but no one knew it at the time)...and between an ENFP and ISFJ...which subordinate do you think became the target of the whole of her insanity? The primary problem for me was...because there had never been an issue in the past it took me a while to snap...or it took me a while to no longer make excuses/passes for her behavior in my mind and/or give weight to what she said and did.

    And so after getting blasted for being late I did sometimes say things like "wtf? Did you notice Dick, Jane and Spot were all late as well?...there was a fucking accident." And I did become aggressive with the people my deadlines were dependent on when there were delays, etc. So yah, I do recognize what you say of him. For me it wasn't so much that the job wasn't a good fit it was more like..."do you know how hard it is for me to maintain any job? And if I can do it...? So can fuckin you." <-This was short-lived though. Once I got busted for bringing the wrong color shade of napkin to an informal potluck I was like "Okay, this has nothing to do with me" and I approached the Dean.

    Without the extreme pressure from an authority figure I had actually respected at one time... I can't think of what conditions would bring about that type of behavior in me though. Normally, I love and adore people making mistakes in the workplace...I want to kiss and hug them <-never bothered by people's fuck-ups. And obscenely fast approaching deadlines aren't a problem either since that merely sums up the entirety of my school experience and is when I do my best work so... I don't know why he is putting this pressure on himself. But in the language of the forum he's most likely a 7 disintegrating to 1.
    I liked the bit about how hard it is for u to keep anyjob yeah i did feel like that when i started working and ppl expected me to actually come on time. That was just bewildering. I then took it upon myself to change the rules by working my way up obsessively. Well actually it happened more organically but now i get to gloat about my masterplan and be feared by all. Before all that during my studies doing "missions" for x or y i was such an absolute mess. I frankly think the only reason im alive and not living under a bridge today is that i tend to grasp things rather quickly

    Thx for the post. Quite insightful. Yes 7 into 1 might be true. Though he s not going insane or anything. Now mostlu i find myself facing a motivation issue. I promised to work with h until september at least but it gets harder to motivate
    Myself frankly.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I've had one relationship with an enfp, it was kinda full of sparkles. In a good way. It was cut short due to her departure from the country...

    Michael?




    Now what's swagger? I mean, I totally know I have a lot of it I just wanted you to refresh my memory as to what it was haha.

    Umm sure. There's a lot of fuss made over the ENFP female. It's just that...when I stop and consider the ratio of men that had some loose grasp of who I truly am and loved that part of me...vs...men that designed something entirely artificial out of the fragments I unintentionally provided...it's all rendered quite meaningless. I can't see how someone could take pride in something like this as if it's something they themselves are doing beyond being *open* and thus easier to manipulate in a person's imagination.



    There was an ENTP once though that truly knew me and loved my not-so-sparkly spirit...and then...I....left the country.........wtf?
    I love hearing about your life and experience EcK. And the way you remind me of my ENTP fetish.

  6. #26
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Michael?




    Now what's swagger? I mean, I totally know I have a lot of it I just wanted you to refresh my memory as to what it was haha.

    Umm sure. There's a lot of fuss made over the ENFP female. It's just that...when I stop and consider the ratio of men that had some loose grasp of who I truly am and loved that part of me...vs...men that designed something entirely artificial out of the fragments I unintentionally provided...it's all rendered quite meaningless. I can't see how someone could take pride in something like this as if it's something they themselves are doing beyond being *open* and thus easier to manipulate in a person's imagination.



    There was an ENTP once though that truly knew me and loved my not-so-sparkly spirit...and then...I....left the country.........wtf?
    I love hearing about your life and experience EcK. And the way you remind me of my ENTP fetish.
    This was a thread about work with enfps not enfps working their charm
    I hear you, relationships are tough sometimes (1st-world-problems) but hey it wouldn't be any fun if it was easy. People are messy and all that stuff.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #27
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Thanks for the advice.
    Yes he's really stressed in personal and work life. Just I'm afraid I'm really running out of patience as well. Given that he essentially blames me for situations he messed up and i fixed. (blaming me when he thinks something is not perfect in his view though I brought the project back to life without any help, seems unfair to me)
    I m open to suggestions and help but I do tend to have a 'deal with your personal shit outside of work please and involve ur girlfriend in it, not me' mentality at work. It's not 100% of course just as an NT I do tend to have less patience for emotional than rational critique of my work.

    Would you have any suggestion on how to try and solve the situation without going into a my view vs your view perspective ?
    My work is to take over some of his projects. Which means he'll always be involved. However It's very hard for me to work on something when he won't give me full control or full credit for it and as time passes I have less and less desire to offer up information about the projects.

    To be fair I have my own flaws. I'm not often timely for example, I'm also very stubborn when people give me instructions which to me 'dont make sense' I tend to just to it my own way. But he shares these flaws. Yet he will call me to critique me for half an hour when for example he was 6 months late on project and I get not end of sh*t for being 3 days late with ALOT of attenuating circumstances (He was supposed to continue the project I had started while I was on a long-before-planned break and didn't as much as touch it or answer phonecalls from the developer who ended up contacting me so i took over the project again)

    he just wont see it at all if i explain

    Alot of his critique is about 'how a and b' will make him look to the client. He's essentially asking for perfection. Which he doesn't deliver himself as alot of his projects are very flawed.

    He also has 20 years experience in the sector and I have 4. He expects me to do better than him essentially and with very little to no support from his side (he doesn't see it that way and thinks I must 'align' with him level, when the reality is his level is very variable. He wants my work to always be "his best work" in his eyes. Yet appart from the general unfairness of it I think it's obvious that two people will do things differently and take different decisions on a project. Yet he expects me to make the same choices he would and deems alternatives as 'wrong', then asks me to make changes at the end of the project which take me tens of hours and add to the design/development budget. At the end he blames me for budget overflow on these changes)


    What the other ENFP user (sorry forgot name) said was perfect. Meaning, I agree 100%.

    As for this post and your next one, it appears to me that "your" ENFP does not think you are co-workers, but rather believes he is supervising you, teaching you, in some way. Have you considered that possibility? ENFPs see potential in everyone and like to encourage them. Sometimes it can be seen as an (excessive) critique, when in fact it was meant to be a motivation tool. Have you considered that the ENFP might be offended or confounded by the fact that you consider your relationship an equal relationship, while he possibly sees you as someone to tutor and guide? From what you wrote, it could be that he respects you and thinks highly of you, and want's you to be better than him.

    Secondly, usually the problem I have with ENTPs is that they despise Fi and always end up making fun of my Fi, or questioning and testing it, etc. Have you wondered how you make him feel, maybe you dont make him feel respected and appreciated? Maybe the way you express your ideas is too dry/rough/sardonic and the ENFP takes it personally!? Like user above said, we ENFPs see things as relative and especially from the point of view of personal experience. So maybe if your way of communicating is "this is the way it's done" it will be a little grating for the ENFP, who'd rsther hear something like "in my opinion/i think/in my experience it will work if we do it this way".

    Lastly, it can also be that this has nothing to do with typology and "your" ENFP is actually un unhealthy individual who doesnt like to work and is a bad colleague. It's quite tricky to analyse the full situation and give suggestions based on this very limited way of communication that is a web forum....

  8. #28
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    What the other ENFP user (sorry forgot name) said was perfect. Meaning, I agree 100%.

    As for this post and your next one, it appears to me that "your" ENFP does not think you are co-workers, but rather believes he is supervising you, teaching you, in some way. Have you considered that possibility? ENFPs see potential in everyone and like to encourage them. Sometimes it can be seen as an (excessive) critique, when in fact it was meant to be a motivation tool. Have you considered that the ENFP might be offended or confounded by the fact that you consider your relationship an equal relationship, while he possibly sees you as someone to tutor and guide? From what you wrote, it could be that he respects you and thinks highly of you, and want's you to be better than him.
    While this is possible, I despite the possibility.

    he's convinced that he has a method that I should follow, but his 'method' is just his personality or a 'style'. A company's METHODOLOGY is a different thing. I'm an NT, you need to show me a process backed by documents if possible. I'll disregard pretty much everything else as 'opinions' and 'impressions'.

    He also doesn't give me data in a 'normal way'.
    He'll call me and talk to me for 1h and then expect me to remember everything he told me (when 90% of it was irrelevant to me). (giving tasks could be tone in 10 minutes tops - it's rare for a call to be less than 20 minutes, often 1 hour). Task giving is split between multiple emails, forwarding of client emails without any comment or clear title, 1 line back and forth emails etc. I don't want to spend my days answering to emails. I don't get paid for that, it doesn't help me do my job. I don't want to it. I told him, he doesn't seem to accept that a task should be set in the following way:
    - email with clear title (or on task management platform)
    - first line should start with something clearly indicating that this is a JOB TO BE DONE with some kind of deadline etc.
    - simple description of the tasks
    Such an email can be written in about 1 to 5 mins. It takes less time than the back and forth overall.

    By the time the call is done I have no desire what so ever to work.

    He'll state things that sound like options and then tell me 3 weeks later he was expecting an answer to it/the work to be done. And I'm like 'wtf' That happens ALOT.

    He'll ask me to inform clients even if i don't have information (i don't do that, I'm not a sales guy. I don't bullshit people - If I don't have info I'll just say so and give the info when I have it)

    He has changing expectations of me - he'll say he's handling the client, or that designer. Then send me emails expecting immediate answer concerning something HE TOLD ME he was taking care of. This is extremely confusing to me.

    He'll keep asking me to do things which are in no way my job/competency. While I'm open to learning I don't want to spend days doing things I'm bad at and then be late on my other projects. (then get no end of crap about it/ and hour long conversations that don't solve anything and make me want to kill)

    He doesn't really offer any support. He will spend 1hour 'mentoring me' or something (utterly pointless to me) when all i need are lists of available freelancers, documentation from previous jobs (so I can see AT A GLANCE how he wants things done) and CLEARLY delimited responsibilities. (where It's clear I'm doing someone a favor if I do something else, not that somehow it becomes my responsibility at random intervals)

    If it's 'his client' he expects to retain FULL CONTROL of the mission, doesn't actually offer support, when he does he makes it sound like it's some kind of GREAT service he's offering and a waste of his time. YET he also wants me to be fully independent on that mission. (then will ask for things to be done his way at random intervals). This is SELF CONTRADICTORY. I can't work that way. It's confusing.

    Secondly, usually the problem I have with ENTPs is that they despise Fi and always end up making fun of my Fi, or questioning and testing it, etc. Have you wondered how you make him feel, maybe you dont make him feel respected and appreciated? Maybe the way you express your ideas is too dry/rough/sardonic and the ENFP takes it personally!? Like user above said, we ENFPs see things as relative and especially from the point of view of personal experience. So maybe if your way of communicating is "this is the way it's done" it will be a little grating for the ENFP, who'd rsther hear something like "in my opinion/i think/in my experience it will work if we do it this way".
    ENTPs don't despise Fi, we don't usually really 'despise' anything. We just find Fi to be highly biased. My relationship with enfps is a hit and miss one. Either they think I'm the antichrist for hurting their feelings (ie: not considering their opinions as fact) or we go along splendidly
    The 'clash' between entps and enfps is usally, in my opinion, simply that enfps are emotionally invested in their views. ENTPs rarely are. Mix that in with an entp's tendency to play devil's advocate. and voila, hurt feelings.

    So if I had more care for F I could have used terms like 'subjective' instead of biased or say 'attacking their views' instead of 'hurting their feelings'. But I don't see that as helping in any way in the accuracy of my statement. So. yeah. I see how that can create animosity. (i just don't act on it)

    This shows in my interactions with this specific enfps for example.
    a) I'm very good at spotting bullshit, and let's face it ENFPs do bullshit quite a bit (ie: convincing people/having them to like them). So I see quite a bit of the 'discussions' to be useless. (ie: you can't convince me of something that doesn't make sense to me, If i 'agree' it's so you'll stop talking at me - won't change my opinion)
    I miigght be taking this one out of my rear end but I think I've read a study (well a cross of two studies) that would indicate entp males could be the best / one of the best types at spotting bs.
    So in effect, what happens is that i'll end up sighing and puffing which will be seen as a 'personal attack' or that ' i don't care' when the only thing i don't care about is that specific conversation (which I see as pointless because to me it seems like 90% is wasted)
    I had an ENFP boss a while back. I would always just, ask what she wanted when she called, because I knew she called about work and talking about how I'm feeling or the weather was utterly pointless - and that she wasn't calling because she cared how I felt, but rather because she wanted her latest idea made into something that can actually make money/is presentable to clients.


    b) He CANNOT be convinced of an argument via sheer data so at this point I kind of stopped wasting my energy doing that.

    Lastly, it can also be that this has nothing to do with typology and "your" ENFP is actually un unhealthy individual who doesnt like to work and is a bad colleague. It's quite tricky to analyse the full situation and give suggestions based on this very limited way of communication that is a web forum....
    No I don't think he has any 'issues' appart from stress.
    He's a smart guy. We're of 'equal smartness'.
    He is more experienced in his field than I am that is true. But I just don't feel that giving longue speeches helps in any way. To the contrary he expects me to solve all his problems, everything he doesn't want to do. So, to be AT LEAST as competent as him.

    All while still 'having things done his way' (his way not being strictly defined).

    One thing I can't quite let go off (I guess it's the 8 wing : P) is when he told me that a payment that was due me for work done month previously was a 'loan' because he hadn't been paid by the client yet (he actually had, the check was in the mail but he went on a 1 month vacation). He was 6 months late on this mission - I saved it and insured that he got paid. He then sort of transfered all the responsibility for everythijng that happened in the mission on me. (ie: yeah the client is going to be difficult when you've ignored him for 6 months after he's paid you a 15,000 usd DOWNPAYMENT).

    So I worked about 100+ extra hours on the project to calm them down - only to hear how 'he wouldn't have put as many hours' as if I was incompetent. Despite him ASKING ME to do that EXTRA WORK after my job was technically done.

    He also had the balls to blame me again and again for the project being delivered 5 days late. Let me explain: he had decided to take over the project again mid-project only to ignore the developer and not touch the project for 3 weeks. The developer was then unavailable and I had to cajol him into finishing the project on nights and evenings while he was working on something else. - I think only having 5 days of delays in these conditions is pretty damn good. it was also a VERY challenging project (not enough budget to do a full system, had to adapt one of the most messed up backend/cms system I've seen in my life and modernize it to plug it into the new site).
    He chose the developer on that mission: the guy was a prick who charges you to fix his own bugs. Then complained about it to me as if it was my decision.

    I then had to hear him tell me again and again how i 'didn't help him' on that project and he wasn't going to get much profit on it. Overall I got paid about as much as a supermarket casheer per hour on this project, which i see as me doing him a favor. he sees it the other way around. I see that as highly disrespectful/insulting.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  9. #29
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    While this is possible, I despite the possibility.

    he's convinced that he has a method that I should follow, but his 'method' is just his personality or a 'style'. A company's METHODOLOGY is a different thing. I'm an NT, you need to show me a process backed by documents if possible. I'll disregard pretty much everything else as 'opinions' and 'impressions'.

    He also doesn't give me data in a 'normal way'.
    He'll call me and talk to me for 1h and then expect me to remember everything he told me (when 90% of it was irrelevant to me). (giving tasks could be tone in 10 minutes tops - it's rare for a call to be less than 20 minutes, often 1 hour). Task giving is split between multiple emails, forwarding of client emails without any comment or clear title, 1 line back and forth emails etc. I don't want to spend my days answering to emails. I don't get paid for that, it doesn't help me do my job. I don't want to it. I told him, he doesn't seem to accept that a task should be set in the following way:
    - email with clear title (or on task management platform)
    - first line should start with something clearly indicating that this is a JOB TO BE DONE with some kind of deadline etc.
    - simple description of the tasks
    Such an email can be written in about 1 to 5 mins. It takes less time than the back and forth overall.

    By the time the call is done I have no desire what so ever to work.

    He'll state things that sound like options and then tell me 3 weeks later he was expecting an answer to it/the work to be done. And I'm like 'wtf' That happens ALOT.

    He'll ask me to inform clients even if i don't have information (i don't do that, I'm not a sales guy. I don't bullshit people - If I don't have info I'll just say so and give the info when I have it)

    He has changing expectations of me - he'll say he's handling the client, or that designer. Then send me emails expecting immediate answer concerning something HE TOLD ME he was taking care of. This is extremely confusing to me.

    He'll keep asking me to do things which are in no way my job/competency. While I'm open to learning I don't want to spend days doing things I'm bad at and then be late on my other projects. (then get no end of crap about it/ and hour long conversations that don't solve anything and make me want to kill)

    He doesn't really offer any support. He will spend 1hour 'mentoring me' or something (utterly pointless to me) when all i need are lists of available freelancers, documentation from previous jobs (so I can see AT A GLANCE how he wants things done) and CLEARLY delimited responsibilities. (where It's clear I'm doing someone a favor if I do something else, not that somehow it becomes my responsibility at random intervals)

    If it's 'his client' he expects to retain FULL CONTROL of the mission, doesn't actually offer support, when he does he makes it sound like it's some kind of GREAT service he's offering and a waste of his time. YET he also wants me to be fully independent on that mission. (then will ask for things to be done his way at random intervals). This is SELF CONTRADICTORY. I can't work that way. It's confusing.


    ENTPs don't despise Fi, we don't usually really 'despise' anything. We just find Fi to be highly biased. My relationship with enfps is a hit and miss one. Either they think I'm the antichrist for hurting their feelings (ie: not considering their opinions as fact) or we go along splendidly
    The 'clash' between entps and enfps is usally, in my opinion, simply that enfps are emotionally invested in their views. ENTPs rarely are. Mix that in with an entp's tendency to play devil's advocate. and voila, hurt feelings.

    So if I had more care for F I could have used terms like 'subjective' instead of biased or say 'attacking their views' instead of 'hurting their feelings'. But I don't see that as helping in any way in the accuracy of my statement. So. yeah. I see how that can create animosity. (i just don't act on it)

    This shows in my interactions with this specific enfps for example.
    a) I'm very good at spotting bullshit, and let's face it ENFPs do bullshit quite a bit (ie: convincing people/having them to like them). So I see quite a bit of the 'discussions' to be useless. (ie: you can't convince me of something that doesn't make sense to me, If i 'agree' it's so you'll stop talking at me - won't change my opinion)
    I miigght be taking this one out of my rear end but I think I've read a study (well a cross of two studies) that would indicate entp males could be the best / one of the best types at spotting bs.
    So in effect, what happens is that i'll end up sighing and puffing which will be seen as a 'personal attack' or that ' i don't care' when the only thing i don't care about is that specific conversation (which I see as pointless because to me it seems like 90% is wasted)
    I had an ENFP boss a while back. I would always just, ask what she wanted when she called, because I knew she called about work and talking about how I'm feeling or the weather was utterly pointless - and that she wasn't calling because she cared how I felt, but rather because she wanted her latest idea made into something that can actually make money/is presentable to clients.


    b) He CANNOT be convinced of an argument via sheer data so at this point I kind of stopped wasting my energy doing that.


    No I don't think he has any 'issues' appart from stress.
    He's a smart guy. We're of 'equal smartness'.
    He is more experienced in his field than I am that is true. But I just don't feel that giving longue speeches helps in any way. To the contrary he expects me to solve all his problems, everything he doesn't want to do. So, to be AT LEAST as competent as him.

    All while still 'having things done his way' (his way not being strictly defined).

    One thing I can't quite let go off (I guess it's the 8 wing : P) is when he told me that a payment that was due me for work done month previously was a 'loan' because he hadn't been paid by the client yet (he actually had, the check was in the mail but he went on a 1 month vacation). He was 6 months late on this mission - I saved it and insured that he got paid. He then sort of transfered all the responsibility for everythijng that happened in the mission on me. (ie: yeah the client is going to be difficult when you've ignored him for 6 months after he's paid you a 15,000 usd DOWNPAYMENT).

    So I worked about 100+ extra hours on the project to calm them down - only to hear how 'he wouldn't have put as many hours' as if I was incompetent. Despite him ASKING ME to do that EXTRA WORK after my job was technically done.

    He also had the balls to blame me again and again for the project being delivered 5 days late. Let me explain: he had decided to take over the project again mid-project only to ignore the developer and not touch the project for 3 weeks. The developer was then unavailable and I had to cajol him into finishing the project on nights and evenings while he was working on something else. - I think only having 5 days of delays in these conditions is pretty damn good. it was also a VERY challenging project (not enough budget to do a full system, had to adapt one of the most messed up backend/cms system I've seen in my life and modernize it to plug it into the new site).
    He chose the developer on that mission: the guy was a prick who charges you to fix his own bugs. Then complained about it to me as if it was my decision.

    I then had to hear him tell me again and again how i 'didn't help him' on that project and he wasn't going to get much profit on it. Overall I got paid about as much as a supermarket casheer per hour on this project, which i see as me doing him a favor. he sees it the other way around. I see that as highly disrespectful/insulting.

    I didnt read through the whole thing because you lost me after the first paragrsphs. But, considering the start of this post, you know what? Now I also dislike you.
    You are basically convinced that you are right and the ENFP is wrong. I bet he senses that. I thought you came here to have an understanding of how an ENFP's thought process works and try to improve your communication with him, but now it seems to me you just want to slam him. You're not interested in his point of view and even the way you express is is quite crude. You managed to almost offend me too!
    Also, it is becoming more apparent to me that you have a divergence as far as what your aspectations are: Your colleague thinka of you as a younger person that has something to learn from him and you totally despise this (in a very clear and almost aggressive way). So, unless you try to be a little more tolerant and understand his point of view as AS VALID as yours, your relationship with him wont improve. But what I didnt like about that post is that you really dont seem interested in this, you just seem interested in slamming the ENFP and venting about your problems in a public forum. And for that, I already feel more empathetic of the ENFP than I feel of you. Have fun continuing to do that. Goodbye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    I didnt read through the whole thing because you lost me after the first paragrsphs. But, considering the start of this post, you know what? Now I also dislike you.
    You are basically convinced that you are right and the ENFP is wrong. I bet he senses that. I thought you came here to have an understanding of how an ENFP's thought process works and try to improve your communication with him, but now it seems to me you just want to slam him. You're not interested in his point of view and even the way you express is is quite crude. You managed to almost offend me too!
    Also, it is becoming more apparent to me that you have a divergence as far as what your aspectations are: Your colleague thinka of you as a younger person that has something to learn from him and you totally despise this (in a very clear and almost aggressive way). So, unless you try to be a little more tolerant and understand his point of view as AS VALID as yours, your relationship with him wont improve. But what I didnt like about that post is that you really dont seem interested in this, you just seem interested in slamming the ENFP and venting about your problems in a public forum. And for that, I already feel more empathetic of the ENFP than I feel of you. Have fun continuing to do that. Goodbye.
    So let me summarize this. I gave a few examples of what made it very difficult for me to work with that particular enfp.

    You are therefore blaming me for your own feelings, without any kind of action or reason backing it up (which is ridiculous. I was not talking about you).

    Which is, ironically, precisely what i said happens with half of enfps.

    Regarding my age, I've often managed people twice my age. I don't think it matters. It's about competence.

    Regarding points of view: while yes someone's point of view is to be taken into account it's silly to assume all points of view are "as valid".
    I'm sure you don't think that way if someone insults you. I mean hell: you don't think that of me and you don't even know me. Simply because you somehow managed to get your feelings hurt by association.

    Am i missing something?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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    ... In theory.

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