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Educational Achievement and Culture

Qre:us

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Growing up in the culture (and/or ethnic group) that you did, what kind of educational expectations were put upon you, if any?

My interest in this topic came from this article, as well as from my own personal experience:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...ups/article17923536/?cmpid=rss1&click=dlvr.it

Along the same vein of Amy Chua's "Tiger Mom", the article talks about a study looking at second-generation children of immigrants (specifically, Chinese and Vietnamese), and academic outcomes. And what drives academic outcomes, for certain ethnic groups.

For me, personally, this really resonated:
One 35-year-old quoted in the study, explains that her mother failed to understand why Americans put so much fanfare into celebrating high school graduation, seeing the diploma as expected, not remarkable. “If you get a PhD or a Master’s, that the big thing; that’s the icing on the cake with a cherry on top, and that’s what she values.”

My parents were immigrants, and I am the second-generation child of such immigrants. This above narrative has played out in my household. Graduating from high school, heck, having an undergrad degree (unless the degrees were in Engineering or other such application-based fields, etc.), was not an achievement. It was an expectation, plain and simple. High school graduation ceremony was seen as the equivalent of graduating from kindergarten. A "cute, little, celebration", meant as fluff sentimentality. It was ingrained since I was a little kid: finishing undergrad is the bare minimum. And, not just for me, but it was an expectation of our whole extended family (cousins, who you marry and bring in to the family, etc, etc). Did that put pressure on me? Hell, yes. Did that limit what I wanted to pursue? Yes, to some real degree.

I don't know what exactly I feel about it, but I think the conclusion drawn from the article is a poignant one.

“We as a society tend to look at outcomes; they are the most visible markers of success – the type of job you have, the clothes you wear, the car you drive,” says Lee. “So it’s easy to pinpoint which groups look more successful without thinking about where they started from.”

When success is measured not by where a second-generation child ends up, but by where their immigrant parents began, the storyline shifts – the most successful immigrants in the U.S. are not Chinese, but Mexican. The children of Mexican immigrants, Lee says, had the lowest educational attainment of any ethnic group in her research. Compared to 100 per cent of Chinese-Amercans, only 86 per cent graduated from high school. But that rate was more than double their parents. (When it came to college, their rates doubled that of their fathers, and tripled their mothers.) “Even accounting for the additional obstacle for children of undocumented parents,” Lee wrote in a recent Time Magazine essay, “there is no question that when we measure success as progress from generation to generation, Mexican-Americans come out ahead.”

And you can bet that’s just what their parents expected of them.

“It’s not a question of certain cultures valuing education more than others,” Lee says. “It’s really about are we giving groups equal access to resources so that they have a fair shot of getting up that ladder.”
 

lowtech redneck

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I'm a white Southerner (highly mobile childhood due to my father's job) from an upper middle-class background, my father was a structural engineering consultant descended from upwardly mobile farmers and small businessmen from the Appalachian foothills and my mother came from a family of low-country doctors and lawyers and was an English teacher and then a social worker before becoming a homemaker.

High-school graduation was definitely expected, celebration was about life milestones rather than achievement, though high grades and other exceptional scholastic achievements were duly praised (for my sisters, I had terrible grades until college). College was also expected, and failure to finish was considered to be a partial failure at, and mistake in, life (my parents were greatly distressed when my borderline genius second-eldest sister, long expected to have a successful career in whatever advanced field most interested her, decided to drop out of college and become a full-time hostess at a fancy hotel in order to pursue a life that she actually wanted). I don't remember any particular expectation of grad school, but then, my scholastic record during childhood (not helped at all by my severe OCD and ADD) did not encourage such expectations.
 

cafe

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I was expected to graduate from high school. My grades never seemed to be much of a big deal. What I would do after high school really wasn't discussed until sometime during my senior year, but it was pretty vague. When my part of our survivor's benefits was about to run out the summer after I graduated, my mom told me I'd have to go to college or get a job.
 

Forever_Jung

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I'm an Acadien, living in Atlantic Canada.

I was the first person in the "Placeholder" family to attend University, so it was no big deal when I failed horribly. In fact, my failure seemed to put them at ease. They like me better now.

My mom used to really chew me out for my performance in High School. I probably wouldn't have even graduated if she hadn't been so strict (I just squeaked by, as it was).
 

prplchknz

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I was expected to go to school, go to college and graduate (didn't live up to expectations, obviously)
 

Freesia

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My parents were immigrants, and I am the second-generation child of such immigrants. This above narrative has played out in my household. Graduating from high school, heck, having an undergrad degree (unless the degrees were in Engineering or other such application-based fields, etc.), was not an achievement. It was an expectation, plain and simple. High school graduation ceremony was seen as the equivalent of graduating from kindergarten. A "cute, little, celebration", meant as fluff sentimentality. It was ingrained since I was a little kid: finishing undergrad is the bare minimum. And, not just for me, but it was an expectation of our whole extended family (cousins, who you marry and bring in to the family, etc, etc). Did that put pressure on me? Hell, yes. Did that limit what I wanted to pursue? Yes, to some real degree.

My parents are also immigrants, and this pretty much sums up my experiences as well. In fact, the day after I graduated high school my dad was on the phone with one of his friends talking about which graduate schools I was planning to go to. The pressure on the me and my younger siblings is only increased by the fact that my older brother is the model son who made perfect grades, got a master's in computer engineering and is now living the "good life", so to speak.
 

Such Irony

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I lived in the United States all of my life. My parents wanted me to do well academically but they never put a whole lot of pressure on me to do so. As long as I passed my classes, they were happy. I actually pushed myself harder academically than they pushed me. Academics was the one thing I was good at. I wasn't athletic, artistic, musical, particularly good looking, or popular. So if I was going to excel in something, academics would be it.
 
G

garbage

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The article resonates here, too. The notion that, say, graduating college was just a given; that it was akin to learning how to use a sippy cup; that anything meaningful would have to go very, very far beyond that.

The only kicker for me is the source of the pressure. My parents in no way pushed me to do what I've done; they were proud, but didn't expect it. But the pressure was (is) still there, internally.

That is, it's not some parent of mine wondering why high school graduation isn't just a given, or why it's celebrated any more than graduating from 4th to 5th grade is; it's me.

When I got my masters degree, I just kinda left the diploma in the trunk of my car or something; way back when I started my undergrad, I knew that the doctorate would be the only thing that mattered to me. I could celebrate then.

:shrug:
 

Qre:us

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my parents were greatly distressed when my borderline genius second-eldest sister, long expected to have a successful career in whatever advanced field most interested her, decided to drop out of college and become a full-time hostess at a fancy hotel in order to pursue a life that she actually wanted).

This is pretty awesome. Often, I wished for more strength to go against expectations and just live. I have in many areas of my life, but the thorns that still prick are the ones where I failed to do so.

I don't remember any particular expectation of grad school, but then, my scholastic record during childhood (not helped at all by my severe OCD and ADD) did not encourage such expectations.

Are your own personal expectations the same as what your parents were for you? Do you think you internalized any of their expectations so that they were not discernable from your own expectations of yourself?

I was expected to graduate from high school. My grades never seemed to be much of a big deal.

My grades were always a big deal. They knew which tests, exams, projects were coming up, and would follow up accordingly, about how I did. And, report cards, always had to be shown. Micro-management. I can be a perfectionist, obsessively so. Likely internalized my parents expectations and exaggerated them, due to my own personality.

Mid-way through high school, after exceling and aiming to always get perfect in everything, I reached a breaking point. I just lost my motivation to keep aiming for it. Didn't give a shit. Got crafty with faking my report cards. My grades plumetted, but I still did well enough to not face any real repercussions (like failing, or failing to get into post-secondary education, or failing to get scholarships). But, my parents didn't realize that I wasn't exceling like I used to. They still don't know after all these years. I somehow always managed to slip by, right under the radar. But, it did wreak havoc in finding my own voice, my own dreams, which were hard to separate from the dreams that were dreamt of, for me. It ended up, that things that should have taken me X time to do, even though I managed to reach the goal (eventually), it always took much longer. Like my mother notes, "You take the winding road." Looking back on it now, it was rebellion. Passive rebellion. All the time I wasted. All the roads I didn't take because I didn't know enough that they were my dreams. Expectations can be stifling.

From the outside, it may look like expectations were met, but, at what cost? At what price?

I'm an Acadien, living in Atlantic Canada.

Canadian Pride! :hi:

I was the first person in the "Placeholder" family to attend University, so it was no big deal when I failed horribly. In fact, my failure seemed to put them at ease. They like me better now.

That's sad. That they equated it with social status/class almost. As if, if you didn't fail, you wouldn't be relatable any more, that you'd have moved on to another social class than them. I guess, at the root of it, it's the same issue, flip side of the same coin.

Education = status and security (or, promise/potential of)

I was expected to go to school, go to college and graduate (didn't live up to expectations, obviously)

You had circumstances that infringed on those expectations, beyond your control (to a certain degree). Also, if those are truly your own expectations, never give up. Even if small steps, keep aiming. For yourself.

My parents are also immigrants, and this pretty much sums up my experiences as well. In fact, the day after I graduated high school my dad was on the phone with one of his friends talking about which graduate schools I was planning to go to.

LOL. My parents were never that kind, as they didn't want to toot their horns before it actually happened. But I have felt the sentiment, from my parents, in other ways.

The pressure on the me and my younger siblings is only increased by the fact that my older brother is the model son who made perfect grades, got a master's in computer engineering and is now living the "good life", so to speak.

Ah. The "good life", "I just want you to be happy, successful, and secure." But there's all these pre-conceived notions, and rigid paths that are laid out, and assumed, as the only way of achieving it.

To give my parents' credit, they have definitely opened up their eyes (been forced to), and learned, along with me. Where, before, they would only consider very few, narrow, fields as practical degrees to aim for, now, they are much more open to other fields of (dreams) possibilities. And, they openly acknowledge that it was because they didn't know any better.

I lived in the United States all of my life. My parents wanted me to do well academically but they never put a whole lot of pressure on me to do so.

:)

As long as I passed my classes, they were happy.

My parents had the same sentiment only towards certain classes: art, music, etc. heh.

The only kicker for me is the source of the pressure. My parents in no way pushed me to do what I've done; they were proud, but didn't expect it. But the pressure was (is) still there, internally.

And, really, this is how it should be. Teaching your kids to be independent and wise enough, to choose their own path for success.

I guess, when it comes to immigrant parents, there's a super-imposition of their own dreams, and more. I have a masters. My kid will have a masters and more.

Because it is a measure of having "made it". "I left my homeland for better opportunities for my children, and, come hell or highwater, they will get it." I know that a lot of my own internalization of my parents' expectations came, not because they militantly pressured me to internalize it, adopt it, they weren't that fascist, or that strict with me, but because of their own struggles, I felt a duty (empathy) to internalize their dreams, and live it for them, to a certain degree. Seeing them work so hard, basically start from scratch, having moved to a new foreign place, giving up all that is familiar, adopting to a new culture, socially isolated, and not giving up, it seemed like a spit in their face, to not do something with it. To make their struggle be for naught. That really was the internalization of my parents' expectations.

When I got my masters degree, I just kinda left the diploma in the trunk of my car or something; way back when I started my undergrad, I knew that the doctorate would be the only thing that mattered to me. I could celebrate then.

:shrug:

heh. Ditto.
 

Zarathustra

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Growing up in the culture (and/or ethnic group) that you did, what kind of educational expectations were put upon you, if any?

Answer below.

My parents were immigrants, and I am the second-generation child of such immigrants. This above narrative has played out in my household. Graduating from high school, heck, having an undergrad degree (unless the degrees were in Engineering or other such application-based fields, etc.), was not an achievement. It was an expectation, plain and simple. High school graduation ceremony was seen as the equivalent of graduating from kindergarten. A "cute, little, celebration", meant as fluff sentimentality. It was ingrained since I was a little kid: finishing undergrad is the bare minimum. And, not just for me, but it was an expectation of our whole extended family (cousins, who you marry and bring in to the family, etc, etc). Did that put pressure on me? Hell, yes. Did that limit what I wanted to pursue? Yes, to some real degree.

See, I grew up and hung out with a lot of kids like you (children of Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern, et al, immigrants).

Was just at one of their weddings a couple weeks back (Vietnamese), and my buddy (Egyptian) stayed at my place.

Of the, let's say, 10-15 friends from elementary/middle/high school there, I was one of three white people.

So I saw a whole lot of what you mentioned, and it was always interesting from an outsider's perspective.

I appreciated it, actually, cuz my family was very different in this way than a lot of my friends' families.

Which isn't to say that there wasn't something there from my family...

It was just... executed very differently...

Much less "helicopterish"...

And not cuz my parents weren't involved...

They were at every athletic competition of mine...

Nor cuz they didn't care...

The one time I didn't get an A (my very last semester of high school), my Dad was pissed (cuz I'd literally just stopped doing any work in that class, and got a C the last quarter because of it... but, interesting to note, he was pissed cuz he thought it showed a lack of proper work ethic, and, as a result, a lack of integrity... not because it would affect anything about college or what not [I was already accepted and going to Berkeley, so it couldn't really have any effect {and hence why I didn't care}]).

It's just...

I dunno...

My friends and I joke a lot about racial stuff, cuz we all know we don't actually give a shit about it, and so it's common to joke and comment about white people not giving a shit about education, and just being a bunch of party animals who only care about playing sports and getting laid and drinking and doing drugs, and what not... and it's always been kind of funny, cuz I'm more on my friends' side of the fence than on "white people"'s... like, I look at a lot of the white people we grew up with, and I do think they are pieces of shit who don't value education enough, and really just don't have good values, and could really benefit from being more like my friends whose parents immigrated here...

But then, at the same time, I'm white, and I didn't exactly have the same kind of stuff put on me that a lot of my Asian and Indian and Middle Eastern friends did... like, the pressure on them seemed so constant, and overt, and explicit... on me, it was much different... it was much more implicit... almost not even talked about... just assumed... and, don't get me wrong, my mother was a teacher, my family totally valued education... I remember doing flash cards of math problems when I was 4 or 5 yrs old... going to college (and a top one) was just a given (heheh... like Tom Hank's son said in the movie about where I grew up, upon being asked why he was going to college: "Because that's what you DO after HIGH SCHOOL!" [that movie actually came out my freshman year of college, and very much resonated with me {I hated those subsequent stupid tv shows, tho...}])... my family valued education to a very significant degree... it was just... a bit different than my friends' families.

So, yeah, it sort of made it such that I was not like the "white people" (and, granted, there were other white people like me who were getting top grades and SAT scores and going to top universities, so it wasn't like I was the only one or anything, but, if you looked at the white population at my school, and compared it to the Indian or Asian or Middle Eastern populations, it was clear that the latter groups' populations were significantly more likely to be in Honors classes, getting good grades and test scores, and going to good universities [of the students in my class who also went to Berkeley, I was one of three white people (one of whom was Jewish), three Asians, and three Indians... and there's no way Asians and Indians [especially Indians] made up 1/3, each, of my high school's population])... but nor was I like my Asian, Indian, and Middle Eastern friends... it put me in a subset with not too many other people, of "white people whose parents actually valued education", or something...

I'm a white Southerner (highly mobile childhood due to my father's job) from an upper middle-class background, my father was a structural engineering consultant descended from upwardly mobile farmers and small businessmen from the Appalachian foothills and my mother came from a family of low-country doctors and lawyers and was an English teacher and then a social worker before becoming a homemaker.

High-school graduation was definitely expected, celebration was about life milestones rather than achievement, though high grades and other exceptional scholastic achievements were duly praised (for my sisters, I had terrible grades until college). College was also expected, and failure to finish was considered to be a partial failure at, and mistake in, life (my parents were greatly distressed when my borderline genius second-eldest sister, long expected to have a successful career in whatever advanced field most interested her, decided to drop out of college and become a full-time hostess at a fancy hotel in order to pursue a life that she actually wanted). I don't remember any particular expectation of grad school, but then, my scholastic record during childhood (not helped at all by my severe OCD and ADD) did not encourage such expectations.

My experience sounds pretty similar to lowtech redneck's.

Upper middle class, older sister who was 5 yrs older than me, in the G.A.T.E. program in California, was captain of sports teams, on student government, voted by high school faculty to be the best student in her class (of ~400), went to UCLA and double-majored.

My parents never really drilled anything into me, wrt expectations; they were just kinda there.

Like, I knew what was expected, and it was very internalized on my end.

I think that's actually a key difference.

Another key difference is that graduate school never actually felt required.

Both my parents have graduate degrees, as does my sister, but it never felt that important to me.

And that's despite the fact that many people I know think I should become a college professor.

As my father once said, though, "He'd like it for a few years, and then get bored to shit."

My dad has this odd way of knowing the truth about me.

He almost never says anything about it, but, when he does, or when, let's say, my mom tells me something he has said...

It's ridiculous how accurate it is...

He's also been the person who knows how to push my buttons more than anyone else...

With one comment he could sort of shove a dagger right into the back of my rib cage...

And that dagger would stick with me, and drive me, for years, hell, for my whole life afterward...

And the thing is, I loved it. They were good daggers. Like, they were true. Always. So I'd work on beating/overcoming/fixing them.

This is the only way, really, that my parents, or, perhaps, better said, my father, proactively drove me.

And it was only every so often...

I mean, he's only done this a handful of times over 30 yrs...

But those 3, 4, 5 times he's done it... (maybe 6 or 7 if you count comments my mothers has recounted to me...)

Really, that's all I needed, cuz my internal motivation was extremely high...

These just supplemented that, gave it more form, and pushed it in the right direction.

My mom probably used a different method...

With her, I just knew how much she thought I could achieve...

I knew how much she thought of me...

And so I'd never want to let that down...

I'd want to proactively go forth, and make her proud...

So there were ways in which my parents drove me...

But they were more hands off, more underhanded (?) perhaps...

And gave me the freedom to just go forward and be whatever I wanted to be...

The article resonates here, too. The notion that, say, graduating college was just a given; that it was akin to learning how to use a sippy cup; that anything meaningful would have to go very, very far beyond that.

The only kicker for me is the source of the pressure. My parents in no way pushed me to do what I've done; they were proud, but didn't expect it. But the pressure was (is) still there, internally.

That is, it's not some parent of mine wondering why high school graduation isn't just a given, or why it's celebrated any more than graduating from 4th to 5th grade is; it's me.

When I got my masters degree, I just kinda left the diploma in the trunk of my car or something; way back when I started my undergrad, I knew that the doctorate would be the only thing that mattered to me. I could celebrate then.

:shrug:

Yeah, this resonates with me too.

With me, it's more about career, though.

At high school graduation, I just remember thinking to myself, "It's so weird that anyone really gives a shit about this."

At college graduation, there was a bit more sense of triumph, but it wasn't so much about earning a degree... it was more that I knew I had grown a whole lot in college, that I'd been through a lot, and had come out the other side a better person... that I was proud of.

And I knew my parents were, too.

One of my favorite pictures actually is coming out of my graduation ceremony, at Lower Sproul on campus, and I've got my cap and gown on, the Campanile is far off in the back ground, but is just over my shoulder, and I have both hands in the air, holding my diploma scroll. My ESFP ex used to have this picture up at her family's house. I had no problem with it, cuz I knew why she liked it. And it was in line with why I did. I do wonder sometimes, when people look at it, though, if they think it's cuz I'm proud to have graduated from college. The thought will come to me for a second, and then fade right away, as I know what the picture is really about, and, if you look at it, and don't see it for what it actually is, then your opinion isn't really that meaningful to me anyway.

My grades were always a big deal. They knew which tests, exams, projects were coming up, and would follow up accordingly, about how I did. And, report cards, always had to be shown. Micro-management. I can be a perfectionist, obsessively so. Likely internalized my parents expectations and exaggerated them, due to my own personality.

Yeah, I saw a lot of this in my friends in similar situations as you.

Totally not how my parents were.

Mid-way through high school, after exceling and aiming to always get perfect in everything, I reached a breaking point. I just lost my motivation to keep aiming for it. Didn't give a shit. Got crafty with faking my report cards. My grades plumetted, but I still did well enough to not face any real repercussions (like failing, or failing to get into post-secondary education, or failing to get scholarships). But, my parents didn't realize that I wasn't exceling like I used to. They still don't know after all these years. I somehow always managed to slip by, right under the radar. But, it did wreak havoc in finding my own voice, my own dreams, which were hard to separate from the dreams that were dreamt of, for me. It ended up, that things that should have taken me X time to do, even though I managed to reach the goal (eventually), it always took much longer. Like my mother notes, "You take the winding road." Looking back on it now, it was rebellion. Passive rebellion. All the time I wasted. All the roads I didn't take because I didn't know enough that they were my dreams. Expectations can be stifling.

Hmm...

See, I wanted to get straight As in high school, so I could get into the best university possible.

It wasn't like my parents told me to or anything... just, once I got to high school, I knew it was time to do so.

To give my parents' credit, they have definitely opened up their eyes (been forced to), and learned, along with me. Where, before, they would only consider very few, narrow, fields as practical degrees to aim for, now, they are much more open to other fields of (dreams) possibilities. And, they openly acknowledge that it was because they didn't know any better.

That's nice to hear.

I was always hoping it would eventually turn out that way.

And, really, this is how it should be. Teaching your kids to be independent and wise enough, to choose their own path for success.

Agreed.
 
L

LadyLazarus

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Usually, from what I have observed with my acquaintances and stereotypes, it seems that Latinos largely are not/ not perceived as very likely to place much importance on education(of course that doesn't apply to everyone). Most of my friends' parents didn't give a fuck about whether they even showed up to school or not. My parents, who are also immigrants by the way(as am I), however were/are the exact opposite. My parents, especially my father, have always put a lot of pressure on me to do well in school. He's always believed me to be exceptionally intelligent and for quite sometime I believed him as well as my classmates/ teachers who told me the same thing. I've now come to realize that that is in fact not at all accurate; I am merely a good improviser and problem solver. I'm almost certain I am of average intelligence, I am not so much smart as I am a very good guesser. I just know how to play the game that tests present for the most part. To this day I still get irritated when people tell me I am smart as it is a false statement/ an incorrect way to word it.

Anyway, my father put a lot of pressure on me to be the best, so naturally, being me; I was annoyed, rebelled against it, and began skipping school on a daily basis. I was short-sighted and self-destructive. I didn't care about school, I still have days where I just want to drop out so I can be free to do whatever I want, but I don't actually act on these ideas like before, I realize it's just the stress talking. Long story short; I am now forced to attend a community college for 2 years with most of the jerk-wads I went to high school with, (who's ambition only seems to go as far as getting their AA and running or mooching off financial aid for as long as possible :dry:) because I screwed up my first two years of high school. So, I can't say I didn't bring this upon myself. The last two years I managed to get my butt in gear and raise my GPA from a 1.0(I am serious that was my GPA) to a 3.0, however that wasn't enough to get me into anywhere I wanted to go. So here I am in a temporary hell where I at least I have straight A's now. It's been very difficult to learn to develop a sort of work ethic being that I never even tried to in high school. Let's just say I really suck at managing my time well(I am here after all). All in all, I deeply regret my shortsightedness and seek atonement, I didn't realize what I was doing, I didn't realize that all my parents did to force me to go/stay in school was for my own good. Most of all I didn't fully realize how lucky I was to have someone who cared about my education. As I mentioned before, my friends' parents didn't care at all about whether they even came to school or not, most of them only cared about them getting a job to bring more money in. My parents have never wanted that from me, they never wanted me to be like most of the other kids at my old school, they've never pressured me into getting a job, they've always told me all my needs would be provided for if I stayed/did well in school, perhaps they've coddled and sheltered me too much in that respect but now I have come to understand that my friends who's parents didn't nag them about school weren't the fortunate one's, I was.

So, yes it seems that unlike most of the other Latinas around me, I was actually pressured to do well in regards to education.
 

Rail Tracer

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Education is important to family, and it is important towards the pack culture of relatives and friends. It is considered an upwards mobility for us, so doing it is a benefit for all of us.

Was expected to finish high school, every single one of my siblings finish high school at bare minimum. More than half of my siblings went to college, and I followed suit to go to get a degree. Get a degree that I can use to get a decent living. My closest sibling got two degrees and a masters. I plan to follow suit, by getting a masters sometime in 5-8 years, probably in Business, Engineering, or Computer Science.... typical stereotypical Asian career besides being a Doctor. Ummmm, the need to get a degree wasn't placed on me, but I felt that I had to match my sibling when it comes to degree level. Relatives in my age group? The majority of them are going to college, or finding ways to attend college.

My family and siblings didn't like how I was doing in middle school (gahhhh, those horrible days of barely passing.) Improvement, they encouraged me to do better, and I've been doing it ever since.

Family and relatives constantly look to improve, when a relative gets a degree, or something, uncles and aunts like to boast about it. In essence, it is imperative to be able to get a degree also. That, or like the article says, get outta of the pack, because you'll have a hard time staying in without all these interferences. Of course, it isn't education hell like parents in China, South Korea, or Japan, but it can get fairly bad.

My family, prior to me, came from the low class after immigrating here. Each one of my siblings work to advance our family so that we can help the younger kids and generations attain an even better education.
 

xisnotx

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I'm biracial (black African, white American) having split time between the two continents...(don't ask..)

I didn't even realize college wasn't a necessity until I was 14 or so. We are all expected to finish an undergraduate degree. Among the 12 or so of my immediate aunts and uncles...only two didn't finish college. Hell...my black African grandfather was an accountant...like in 1940. Like one of the first ones....ever..

It's typical of Africans in the West to have attained advanced education. There's pressure placed on people because, knowing that many Africans would love to have the opportunity you have, you can't just mess up and waste it. It's disrespectful to those Africans who weren't as lucky as you were to come to the West and waste a good chance to improve your situation.

So yeah...
 

Cellmold

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Education was very important to my parents, but over time as they watched both myself and my brother struggle immensely they learned that we as individuals were never going to be the academic achievers they had hoped for.

They fortunately mellowed as time went by, but I always had a great deal of respect for education as a concept, pushing back ignorance and helping people to start out by being taught information then later, learning to think for themselves more.

However I do have a bit of an issue with some of the people who go to higher education. There are a number who go just because it is X amount of years to do nothing but enjoy themselves until they are forced to think about their future, like an extended childhood.
Its partly to do with this country and the obsession over the last government of getting everybody into university or college on the assumption that this will automatically result in a nation of highly successful people. Which isn't to say there aren't people like that who go to higher education, just that there are also plenty who go for that other reason.
However what they've ended up with is a nation of overeducated people who can't find jobs and who are heavily in debt.

I went to 6th form after school with the intention of getting into a college after. I didn't get accepted into anything in the end much to my parents dismay, they seemed to think I was this highly intelligent person and I've never understood why, it cannot just be platonic love.
At 6th form I noticed a great disparity between myself and the people there, I couldn't quite work out why, but I couldn't get along with anybody and was greatly disliked for my bizarre behaviour and rude manner.

It wasn't until I discovered typology that years later I suspected most of these people were intuitives with a few SJ's here and there. Thinking back on it has certainly helped me understand why I struggled so much.
 

á´…eparted

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It was an odd mix for me. It wasn't explicitly expected of me to go to college, because I declared that I wanted to early on (as I knew I wanted to be a scientist since age 6 or so). If I didn't, I suspect I would have been explicitly told. A huge point of contention in my childhood was with how smart I was, and how little I tried, so it would have massively amplified the whole "wasted potential" argument. It wasn't until late middle school that my over-achieving side came out and it hasn't left since. I was around the age of 14 or so when I said "yea, I want to get a PhD", and when I told my parents they were over the moon about this plan. I'm currently in my 3rd year of my PhD program.

Outside of elementary school where I was pressured for doing a shitty job in school, I was never pressured, forced, or expected to get very high marks. High marks yes, but not top tier. They never suggested I take honors and AP classes in high school. I sought it out, and when I told them, they simply say "oh that's wonderful!". The idea that I want a PhD is 100% self imposed and nothing more. When stuff gets tough and I vent to my parents, my mom will say "oh you're so stressed, just leave with a masters! That's good enough!" which triggers a big NO from me. Needless to say I don't vent to my mother anymore. My father seems to want to say the same thing, but never will. Ever the practical ESTJ that he is, it's "you've put so much towards this you have to finish, you can do it!".

To be perfectly honest, the reason I am getting a PhD, is yes I love science, and I wanted to go far with it, but I just wanted the label to begin with. "That's as far as you can go... guess I have to go there". I'd feel like a failure, and a sellout not to, and that's all me. It's just this thing I have to do, and I honestly don't know why it is, I just know it is. No one set that in my head. I impose quite a lot of expectations on myself in that sort of manner. It's not always fun.


EDIT: It's interesting to read about people who always had to or sought straight A's like [MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION] said to get into a top school. I never did. Good grades/marks were meerly incidental most of the time (I got my B.S. degree with a 3.2). To me, the end goal is the PhD, and that's all that matters. What happens on the way to that, the figure details anyway, aren't so important. I mean they are, but only insomuch as getting to the next checkpoint, and fulfilling the standards I set for myself. There's certain thresholds I need to make sure, but it doesn't need to be perfect by grade or GPA (I know I couldn't reach that anyway). If my superiors regard me as good, doing well, etc. then that's good enough. Of course there are many times where I feel huge pressure to make top mark in a class, situation, etc. but I don't need every single metric to do that. Besides, I couldn't anyway, I'd burn out very fast. I'm driven to get to the end by any means I can get there.
 

FDG

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I grew up in (rural) Europe and we don´t really have those "celebrations" that americans do, so there was no official "graduation ceremony" from high school even if I had top grades. Furthemore, everyone in my high school class was white, the most exotic person being a croatian guy...thus I guess my perspective on the matter is slightly different.
My parents just have a high school degree and they never had spectacular grades (although my mother can do mental maths very very quickly), so one way or another they didn´t place any kind of real expectation on what I could/should have done - it was more the teachers who expected me to go as far as I could. I´m now in my second year of my phd (already have the masters) but I´m not loving it and I´m thinking about switching to industry.

To sum it up, no, there wasn´t any real pressure, I somewhat decided everything by myself. I always liked learning, I have a really good memory and I´m somewhat competitive, thus I always had good to really good grades (the equivalent of 3.9 GPA, in american terms).
However, I don´t know if my experience can be easily "translated" to american culture. I guess I relate to what [MENTION=4]cafe[/MENTION] wrote.
 

Typh0n

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My backgrounnd is a bit complicated. My mothet is Belgian and my father the son of wealthy Turkish immigrants. When I was six, I moved to the United States. Thats where I got all my public schooling, I moved back to Europe when I was nineteen, so when I had finished high school.

My parents being university teachers, they put alot of emphasis on my education. I was strongly pressured to get good grades. I got good grades(above average though I have always been a bit of a slacker so I never was the straight A type) and was interested in alot of subjects, mainly not the ones taught in school. I liked Dinosaurs, except, unlike the other children I knew there exact names and would always act like a know it all to the other kids, which annoyed the hell out of them. This is when I began to realize humans have a bigger fear of looking stupid than of being stupid. My parents always told me I was smart and it annoyed me because of the opinions of other kids, my parents exalted me above other kids and I felt like it damaged my vision of other kids. But I was wrong. I was taught in school all the bullshit about equality and democracy. I wanted to live up to those ideals out if complacence. I didnt realize at the time how wrong I was.

As a teenager I started rebelling. I started skipping class. Got bad grades, though at the end of high school I decided I would at least graduate. I did graduate. Then I made a big mistake. I decided to not go to college, and wanted to become an actor inqtead(which is fine in itself) then a musician(again fine). NowIm 31 and never made it in the arts, have no degrees and my family is out of money. Im stuck living on social sevices, which I hate. Im trying hard to change my current life but its hell. I shouldnt have acted like a smartass when I was younger. Rebelling is one thing, but I wanted to be stupid since stupidity was something
that had been encouraged by all this nonsense about equality I heard since childhood. Though I didnt hear it from my parents, I should have listened to them.

Moral of the story being that while Im not blaming society whete I screwed up, I feel that society encouraged me to be stupid if it didnt impel me be so. It encouraged me to feel bad for others incompetence(the kids who didnt know the name of the dinosaurs). It encouraged me to play smart acting like rock and rap stars who have a different salary then I do. I still have a shot, I wanna get a three year degree in documentation though Im not sure if I can stay on social services that long(or want to) or if Im gonna get a part time job to support myself in the meantime(which I would rather do but I dont know what to specify in since I have no qualifications)
 

five sounds

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education was a big deal in my home. i grew up in the states, and had two parents who never went to college and were never encouraged to do so. they felt that a degree and, more specifically, a career was the way to be secure in adulthood (something they struggled to find).

i loved school, and usually did pretty well (kind of slacker-y, but i still pulled As and Bs and took advanced classes). the idea of going to college after high school was comforting. i know how to be in school. i love learning. so when i needed a master's degree in order to go into the career i had my eye on, i didn't think twice about it.

my parents never pressured me about my grades, and i never put a lot of pressure on myself either. they just celebrated my academic achievements and talked to me about school a lot. education was a priority, but i was right on board. learning is fun! all my friends are at school! i really think i could be a perpetual student, working toward no degree, and be completely happy.

where i went wrong was buying into the whole career thing. i need a more homogenized experience than that. but heck, they didn't know that.
 

Qlip

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I'm Latino, but I'm also at least a 3rd generation American, depending on how you look at it. Some of my fam hung around the same area while the borders changed around them. I was raised in a weird religious setting that did not encourage education beyond high school and some vocational training. I didn't even make it that far, I dropped out of high school as soon as I could. It worked out well, I suppose, I'm a well paid in a field that values achievements and abilities over schooling, computer programming.

There was very little value put on education. I went to so many schools, 3 different elementary schools, 2 middle schools, 3 different high schools, all before my sophomore year. I used to feel incredibly guilty for being such a bad student, but it took a long time to understand that it's very hard to succeed under those conditions. There's not only educational whiplash, there's social stuff that crops up from moving so often. It was no wonder I bailed ASAP. I made sure to get reasonably passing grades before I did, just to show I could.

After H.S. I immediately got my GED, then went to 2 year tech school, and then my corporate career began when I was 19.

 

lowtech redneck

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Are your own personal expectations the same as what your parents were for you? Do you think you internalized any of their expectations so that they were not discernable from your own expectations of yourself?

I guess my personal expectation was the same as far as graduating from college was concerned, anything less I internalized as an abject failure in light of the opportunities available to me. I also felt like a failure (which I frankly was) after I burnt out of grad school, but that was more about my personal expectations for myself, at that point.
 
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