Wanderer
New member
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- Feb 28, 2011
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Agree.... The purpose of college is (or was) higher education, not merely job skills. In the US, primary & secondary education is rather crappy, so a college education can really be significant in rounding out your education. Is it essential? No. Is it the only way to be educated? No. Like anything, a lot of how valuable it is depends on what you put into it & do with it. Some people learn really well in a formal setting, and others don't, so that can make a difference also. I'm a bookish person & found college a really enjoyable, mentally-stimulating part of my life, and that in itself makes it valuable to me.
I personally didn't have any debt from college. I did not pay one cent of my own money to go to college. I chose a school & area of study that my grants & scholarships would easily cover. I also think if you're not a good enough HS student to acquire grants & scholarships & can't afford college on your own without accumulating substantial debt, then maybe it's not a good choice for you. If you're not one who does well academically or takes school seriously, then college is probably not your cup of tea anyway.
While I'm not getting rich with my degree, it cost me nothing & does allow me to get work I couldn't get without it - work that over all suits my personality far better than a lot of jobs which don't require a degree.
I think trade schools & apprenticeships are great ideas as college alternatives for those who mainly need affordable ways to learn job skills. However, for some reason, a lot of employers don't take such methods of learning as seriously as college.
One can be a bookish intellectual and not get anything out of college; I'm highly intellectual and I enjoy reading and learning (I'm currently learning Accounting and am planning on CLEPing it and most of a business Minor) I had a scholarship that covered my full tuition, and I never lost it. It was housing and everything else that cost me an arm and a leg.
Also? Not everyone belongs in college. Humorously stated here.
http://youtu.be/57vCBMqnC1Y
There is not emphasis put on learning or developing your mind in college. Simply on getting through. I put a lot of effort into my classes, however what I found was mediocrity. Teachers that didn't want to be teaching, students that just wanted a passing grade. I had a few classes that I enjoyed because of the thought and debate they sparked. The vast majority did not. My philosophy class (or more accurately, the professor) was a nightmare. If you didn't spout back that Existentialism was the gospel truth and that Nietzsche and Kirkegaard were intellectual gods among men you wouldn't get higher than a B- for "not understanding the concepts taught" - I understood the concepts taught perfectly well. I just have a different philosophy and personal convictions than that teacher. I don't enjoy knowing I paid for an attempted brainwashing, or that I wound up with a B on my transcript for refusing to kowtow to a bully with a teachers' podium.
The few classes that I did get "growth" from were not enough to justify the amount charged. I can acquire that same fulfilling growth and discussion at a good book club. This is from someone who both does well and takes academia seriously.
I wouldn't say it's worthless. But I know what you're saying. I certainly FEEL like it's worthless sometimes. And it's so damn expensive, even in Socialist Canuckistan, with all of our government subsidies, I had to take the year off just to pay my tuition off from last year. I really wish I had bothered to do all that mind-numbingly boring stuff in high school now, and earned myself a yearly entrance scholarship. So part of it is MY fault.
Another aspect I dislike about university is that it seems less like higher education and more like an encore of high school. There are many people in my classes who shouldn't be there, but their high school guidance counselor and their parents just told them to, so now they're there, when really they'd be much better off at a community college or in some sort of small business venture. They have no fire, no curiousity for academia, they just want to get laid, get their B- average and get out of there.
The worst part is that instead of the students having to raise their game and work REALLY hard to meet the school's standards, the University simply lowers their standards for the students. When I get an A+ on a paper it has no meaning to me when I know like 20/40 students got at least an A-. Everything seems dumbed down. I went to Univeristy to stretch my limits, not work listlessly within them.
^
This.
I didn't read the original post in this thread, but I imagine it amounts to pointing out that college/uni is more expensive. Of course it should be more expensive, because ever since the 70's, energy has been getting more expensive, and so the cost of everything has been rising. However most things have been offset by them becoming more efficient, and so the cost has been bearable;- universities don't do efficiency very well though. People should be doing uni at home through ventrilo or teamspeak, not sitting in expensive auditoriums/lecture halls, in fact the potency for extended tutorial meetings through teamspeak/videochat means there could be more quality time interaction at a much reduced cost. This would be good for the liberal arts at least, which require the most intensive investment to get anything other than mediocre results; of course the sciences do require actual places for practical tutorials, but they cans afford it cause they get stable jobnessess all over the worlds.
In short, people should not be demanding help with their tuition, they should be demanding and seeking cheaper tuition options which should become the new benchmark which have different qualities not adding up to a lower grade product. One could make an internet university with no multiple choice questions, good lecturers who you interact with, extended tutorial and student liasons to form study groups of people who compliment each others styles of thinking and learning; its not unimaginable.
So stop living in the past, or don't expect to pay old world prices.
I'm not demanding help with tuition; I despise the idea of debt entirely.
My points are:
(1) A College degree is not difficult to get anymore and therefore worth less now that "everyone should go to college".
(2) A degree is unnecessary for the average person and the average job.
(3) College is expensive and unavoidable if you want a real job.
(4) that College itself does not provide any wonderful "benefit" - It doesn't teach you discipline, hard work, or to think for yourself and grow as a person.
If you're not capable of discipline and hard work you'll flunk out. Or at least, you SHOULD flunk out.
Join the military, get 3 years of schooling completely paid for. Worked well for me.
[...]
I should mention, while active duty, you get tuition assistance (classes paid for) and that doesn't tap into the GI Bill benefit at all. So theoretically, one could knock out an associates while enlisted, or a bachelors if you're enlisting with prior college and then use your GI Bill to get a masters...
But I wouldn't ever encourage someone to make such a big commitment to joining the military solely for an education benefit. If you don't already feel compelled to join, then you shouldn't.
Not everyone feels that need, though, and the military IS in the process of downsizing currently.
On a different note;
If you're in favor of college, please explain what you think the college experience has to offer (note; said benefits should be UNIQUE to the college experience.)
What did you, personally, gain from College that you could NOT have gained elsewhere.