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No More Resumes?

Salomé

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Me, too--every word of this. I don't even have a Facebook account, and I don't want one. To think that in the future one's job would depend on one's "social media presence" is horrifying. Furthermore, I don't even want everyone I know following me on Twitter. I don't want my employer following me. But meh, kelric covered everything and said it better, so I'll just say, ITA.
Me three. I refuse to join the social media revolution. Increasingly, that means I am a non-person. There will probably come a time when I will be forced to sign a contract/publish my personal data to a private corporation that I despise (like Facebook) in order to be able to participate in public life.
That is disturbing.
It's even more disturbing that so few people are disturbed by it.
 

Tallulah

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Me three. I refuse to join the social media revolution. Increasingly, that means I am a non-person. There will probably come a time when I will be forced to sign a contract/publish my personal data to a private corporation that I despise (like Facebook) in order to be able to participate in public life.
That is disturbing.
It's even more disturbing that so few people are disturbed by it.

Very much agreed. I resent very much that Facebook and the like are becoming requirements, rather than tools. Facebook and Google are invading every aspect of our online lives, which in turn will invade our public ones. I wish I believed I was overreacting.
 

CzeCze

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That was only for a very particular sector dealing with online media. It makes sense to ask for "web presence" for a jonlb that either requires it or aims to increase it for clients.

Otherwise, its pointless.

For me the distinction is, does the job think my online persona represents me as a person or do they just ant to see how well that Ive "branded" myself?

I still have a negative knee jerk reaction to people who are heavily and superficially self promoting online (and over the age of 16 and has no product to push) but perhaps Im just old school and prefer doing the internet incognito.
 

Salomé

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I refuse to join the social media revolution. Increasingly, that means I am a non-person. There will probably come a time when I will be forced to sign a contract/publish my personal data to a private corporation that I despise (like Facebook) in order to be able to participate in public life.
O my prophetic soul...
Meet the New Boss: Big Data

The data say that person lives near the job, has reliable transportation and uses one or more social networks, but not more than four. He or she tends not to be overly inquisitive or empathetic, but is creative.
Creative people aren't inquisitive??

Do not Like.
 
G

garbage

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Oh shit, using the Big Five to screen applicants is bad news. On the Big Five alone, I'd completely flunk an application for a tech company despite my resume and skillset.

It's not intended to be used for down-in-the-weeds purposes such as this one--it's intended for more abstract subjects, such as finding correlations, developing theories, furthering research, etc.

I'd like to see a study of whether productivity, profit, or some other metric has increased after one of these bullshit screenings has been instituted--that is, whether using the Big Five in this way actually helps. If it doesn't, then perhaps the media will get ahold of the study, magnify the contents of the study to an insane degree, send the business folks into a reactionary panic, and force them to stop this nonsense and hire people the good ol' fashioned way.
Kenexa's roughly 40-minute survey, she said, asks questions that the software scores for honesty. "People who are trying to fool the system are going to get tripped up," she said.
Thank God for a little bit of knowledge of typology. We probably have an edge on most people. Hooray for manipulation!
 

Salomé

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Oh shit, using the Big Five to screen applicants is bad news. On the Big Five alone, I'd completely flunk an application for a tech company despite my resume and skillset.

It's not intended to be used for down-in-the-weeds purposes such as this one--it's intended for more abstract subjects, such as finding correlations, developing theories, furthering research, etc.
Big Data != Big Five

(It's Big Brother's secret sibling)

But agree with all of that. There is something sinister about screening people based on personality tests. Use it for career/personal development, by all means. But to exclude someone based on their being a specific type? That's just a dangerous new kind of -ism.


A psychologist involved in creating the algorithm discussed in the article, defended it, and the concerns about legality/potential for indirect discrimination thusly:

" We've known for years that intelligence is the single best predictor of performance across all job types, but as an industry we can't really use it because intelligence tests tend to discriminate. That's why you see so many personality-style tests.

There are a lot of specific questions employers cannot ask (personal, disability, some criminal history) as well as protected classes which cannot be arbitrarily discriminated against. Protected classes include ethnicity/race, gender, and age (people over 40). We're constantly checking our assessments to ensure they do not discriminate against women, any ethnicity, or older applicants.

Things get trickier when you add the notion of job relevance. IF you are using a screening tool that discriminates, it MUST be job relevant. You cannot disproportionately screen out women who can't lift xx lbs over their head from a firefighting job if that's not something a firefighter actually has to do on the job. You CAN disproportionately screen out blind people for the job of fire truck driver because vision is obviously job relevant."

Thereby implying that intelligence isn't "job relevant".....?

Let's say the "more than zero but less than five social networks" heuristic becomes a standard to screen candidates at the first stage of the recruitment process ( increasingly outsourced to a handful of CRAs).

That means people who refrain from using those sites are being discriminated against on the grounds of good sense / ethics. (When it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of a criminal record...) That makes it necessary to open up one's life to public scrutiny in order to secure work.

Why is it "wrong" to discriminate on the basis of intelligence, but not wrong to discriminate on the basis of personality type or desire for privacy?

Part of the problem is that technology is much more agile than the legislature, which means lots of unethical loophole spinning.

Beyond ethics, from a technical standpoint, there is so much that can go wrong with this model. Including, but not limited to:-

  • More often than not, Big Data is "dirty" and unreliable
  • Correlation is not causation
  • Psychologists make mistakes
  • Programmers make mistakes translating psychologists' mistakes into working s/w

Why do people find it so easy to trust computers when they don't trust human judgment?
Why don't they understand that not only are computers only as good as the human judgments/data fed into them, but unlike human beings, they do not have the ability to reflect on output and say "that's garbage"?
 
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Cellmold

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But agree with all of that. There is something sinister about screening people based on personality tests. Use it for career/personal development, by all means. But to exclude someone based on their being a specific type? That's just a dangerous new kind of -ism.

Oh fuck; tell me about it. Ive always thought if I were handed a personality test as part of my job interviews or as a screening process I would probably spit in someones face.

Perhaps im overexaggerating though...afterall last time that nearly got me arrested. But the idea of it is....abhorrent to me.
 

AgentF

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finding a job and dating have a lot in common.

mutual consent is a prerequisite, determining compatibility the challenge (and traditional resumes do very little to aid the latter).

w/r/t privacy: one software company makes money by "leveraging the digital exhaust that people leave about themselves around the internet."

so, that's their pitch to employers who pay them to identify candidates (active and passive, mind you. the currently employed who leave particularly fragrant exhaust must deal with legions of oft-incompetent recruiters, who decide you're a passive job seeker for you.)
 

Fluffywolf

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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203750404577173031991814896.html


At this point in time, I see this as something small companies and internet start-ups can/are doing, but not large corporations. What do you think?

As a small company, I focus more on the interviews. I've never put any faith in peoples resumés, I know I've never written an honest one myself and don't expect others to do so either. But there isn't a whole lot you can hide in a lengthy interview!
 
W

WhoCares

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So a resume says nothing about you but your friends lists and holiday pics on facebook does...:dry: What a great idea! Let's save everyone the hassle of being literate and instead allow job applications to entail a video audition and text speak on twitter. I do wonder what an office full of attention whores is going to produce though....:unsure:
 

Tessertime

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So what happens if you don't engage in social media, or very rarely? I only have a facebook account, and in the course of 3 years I have probably posted on there 40 times (rough estimation.) I will become active for a short time, lose interest, and then neglect it for months.
The last time I've been on was back in August.
This is very biased towards extraverts in general. I can't imagine intuitive thinkers (just to pick out one group) and other similar groups being very active in stuff like that. Or maybe it is just me?
Will this effectively shut out certain audiences, if this becomes an ideal business mentality across the board?
 

Salomé

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This is very biased towards extraverts in general. I can't imagine intuitive thinkers (just to pick out one group) and other similar groups being very active in stuff like that. Or maybe it is just me?
Will this effectively shut out certain audiences, if this becomes an ideal business mentality across the board?
Yes. That was my point. It's sanctioned discrimination.
 

Fluffywolf

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TBH, a person's online identity could very well be relative, but in general people still treat their onine identity as a form of escapism. I think it is wrong to base your judgements on someones online profiles.
 
G

garbage

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Geez. The mission statement behind sites like Facebook and *gags, throws up* Google+ is that they are communities where we share our lives. Employers expect us to be perfect specimens who don't do keg stands and things of that nature. They're also rolling with the assumption that if we're not putting it all online, that we have something to hide.

I'd rather push against the expectation that we ought to be pristine, that we can't show our true selves.
 

Fluffywolf

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I actually do have a peronal example though in which we used this to our advantage.

About a year ago we were looking for a few people in different areas that were close with the communities and had a presence there to come work for us. And we did look people up on the internet to see what they contribute to their communities and see how well they are known and fit in their areas.

It was in no way a means to judge them on a personal level, I reserve that for the interview, but for various reasons, it was very important that they were a presence in their communities in order for the application to work.

The applications were for funeral directors in small rural towns where we wanted to expand to. You simply can not come into a community like that with mister of misses nobodyknowsme and succeed. As proven by the fact we could not find an applicant that fit the full profile for one of the areas and we've done little to nothing there, despite hiring someone there that is cut out for the job, he just lacks the community connections. But other areas where we positioned people that did fit the profile well, business is booming.

Ofcourse, it was just one part of the applicatin process, the interview is still the most important factor. Not everyone is cut out for the funeral business.


I'm just saying, there are exceptions where peoples online presence can account for a lot, based on the job description. But in general, with most jobs, I don't see the importance.
 

AgentF

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So what happens if you don't engage in social media, or very rarely? I only have a facebook account, and in the course of 3 years I have probably posted on there 40 times (rough estimation.) I will become active for a short time, lose interest, and then neglect it for months.

new models are being introduced which account for the real reasons people thrive in their role: compatibility with the team and company. unfortunately, Facebook and Twitter are now and always will be mined for information you don't necessarily mean to put on your "invisible resume".

and if you aren't worried already, check out Identified. your employability is soon to be reduced to a tidy number.

based on factors that include your participation in social networks, somewhat ridiculously. i wonder if nerds get credit for 'liking' Dr Horrible's Singalong Blog.

This is very biased towards extraverts in general. I can't imagine intuitive thinkers (just to pick out one group) and other similar groups being very active in stuff like that. Or maybe it is just me?

parenthetically, Reed Hoffman seems to be one of the few introverted founders in this space. i believe LinkedIn's early model actually reflected that, and served as a counterpoint to Facebook urging you to over-share/-expose.

Will this effectively shut out certain audiences, if this becomes an ideal business mentality across the board?

people will build more participatory models. it is likely, however, that a leader will emerge who will monetize by reducing you to a score whose components are likely to concern you.

the trend really is analogous to credit scores. and companies like Klout knew that when they launched algorithms to measure your social influence. given their $400m valuation, it was a matter of time before measuring employability followed suit.
 
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