Engineering? Engineering!

[funkadelik]

So lately it's really come to my attention that I would perhaps like to go to school for engineering.

I guess I have this grande idea in my mind that engineering should be about innovative invention, finding out how things work, improving upon old technologies, creativity.

Those are all things I am very attracted to. I know that there is probably a disconnect between my fantasy and reality, but I want to know how big that gap is.

Does anyone who has had experience with engineering or engineers have any advice for someone interested in this field? What can I expect? What are some of the more forward-moving branches of engineering? Civic? Mechanical? Electrical? Chemical? Am I completely disillusioned?

 

[gromit]

I studied civil engineering. There's a little bit of innovation, quite a bit of formulas (in school at least), we did have lots of labs and hands-on stuff, which I enjoyed. In the work force, it seems to really depend on the job you end up with, the company. There are companies that design sidewalk grades or the parts to the machines that manufacture paper cups, and there are companies that help design state-of-the-art bridges, cars, etc.

It is a very practical thing to study, though, it is fairly good at preparing you for a job, unlike, say a degree in poetry or something.

 

[entropie]

No your delusions are right, the most innovative work is probably found in engineering, imo. Alone if you'ld work as an engineering consultant and would need to be informed about what's going on in a technology field, you can go to a new business fair every two weeks at the moment. Topics like electromobility, renewables and process optimizitation towards sutainability have been the big topics as of late. I've studied mechanical with focus on automation and production technology; it's a uncommon focus cause people go into energy technology at the moment due to the chatter about renewables; still I've choosen it cause I like to build robots .

In Germany engineering is one of the more taxing and long studies, it's not one of the hardest, you can manage it, even with sucky math abilities, if you are just very dedicated to the topic, but it takes it toll. What's important is to know what kind of engineering you want to do, tho they are all called engineering it's not the same. Mechanical and civic is more for people intrested in physics on a newtonian level, while computer or electrical engineering can go deeply into theorethical math. Chemistry for example is a topic I suck at, cause I dont find it too intresting and many mechanical engineers share that feeling. Think you have to like it before you choose a study in this field.

I wish you luck, engineering is not the easiest choice, but if you aint looking for easy choices it's the right choice and it's paradise to a Ti-mind. If I havent choosen it I prolly would still feel until today that I have nothing really to do with my mind

 

[King sns]

So lately it's really come to my attention that I would perhaps like to go to school for engineering.

I guess I have this grande idea in my mind that engineering should be about innovative invention, finding out how things work, improving upon old technologies, creativity.

Those are all things I am very attracted to. I know that there is probably a disconnect between my fantasy and reality, but I want to know how big that gap is.

Does anyone who has had experience with engineering or engineers have any advice for someone interested in this field? What can I expect? What are some of the more forward-moving branches of engineering? Civic? Mechanical? Electrical? Chemical? Am I completely disillusioned?

No, it sounds about right.. The couple of engineers I have known have made claims that all of the above are true. A couple of my friends went on to become engineers. One civil, one having something to do with computers. I've known a couple of network engineers as well who claim the work is really abstract, but at the same time, a lot of attention to detail is needed. The civil engineer tested (and also strikes me as) ESFJ. The computer girl I've always suspected to be an NT of sorts. (Even before she decided what she was going to do.) Both network engineers, I suspect to be ENTJ and INTJ. Seems to be a great field for NT's.

You wouldn't see me touching it with a ten foot pole, that's for sure!

 

[Kuthtuk]

So lately it's really come to my attention that I would perhaps like to go to school for engineering.

I guess I have this grande idea in my mind that engineering should be about innovative invention, finding out how things work, improving upon old technologies, creativity.

Well, what i have to say is that when studing engineering u'll probably change your point of view and when you start working even more.
I've been in the field for about 4 years and i've had thoose kind of expectations to. You see in my point of view creativity in the field of engineering is more of a perk than a must-have. Allot of detail is expected and way more paperwork after that, beacause most technologiess and ways of working are defined in something called "Standard" and when you cross the standard line just to see if ther is a better way to do it there is a small chance of a crucifiction hehe. Some times the standard is some stupid way of working that for some reason was stablished, and when your forced to work in thoose types you can get frustrated. Allthough in some rare cases the standard just doesn't cut it and thats when creativity comes in and thats probably where we ENTP shine cause an oportunity of inprovment is called for.

So if you think of starting in the field keep that in mind, an engineer must be a someone who will do great in folowing standards but will shine when the oportunity rises.

 

[entropie]

Well I think paperwork is a thing you have to get used to in every job, yet you are right it does withhold a lot of creativity and there is much in engineering. Depends in which field you work later, I think especially in consulting and in working with people it's more fun to me while I do my engineering hobbies at home.

You should try work in german administration, what I am doing atm. It's like the God of paperwork -.-

 

[Scott N Denver]

All the engineers I work with operate technical machinery and/or analyze results from technical machinery and try to optimize various process details. Others I've known designed circuits for various electronics.

I think ENTP woulds generally enjoy being more "design engineers", but that might be rather formulaic most of the time.

I think classes, especially EE or physics [relates to engineering] are very math intensive, but actual day to day work most of the time isn't. And you usually have computers to help you when it is more math intensive.

 

[funkadelik]

YES! Thanks everyone so far.

I've studied mechanical with focus on automation and production technology; it's a uncommon focus cause people go into energy technology at the moment due to the chatter about renewables; still I've choosen it cause I like to build robots .

Interesting! I'm kind of looking into robotics as well. Well, things like prosthetics - "robots" that help in human ways. But I've been leaning the most towards electrical or mechanic. Electrical because of the theoretical math part (and it seems to have a wide variety of applications) and mechanical because it seems to be the most useful if I were to go into something like robotics engineering.

I wish you luck, engineering is not the easiest choice, but if you aint looking for easy choices it's the right choice and it's paradise to a Ti-mind. If I havent choosen it I prolly would still feel until today that I have nothing really to do with my mind

It's really awesome to hear this. I want to challenge myself very hard. I think it's probably one of the only ways I'll make it through school. If I feel like I'm wasting my time and am not mentally stimulated enough, I'll probably drop out. I already did that once and it was good, cause now I have a better idea of myself and my interests, but I don't want to do it again. I am REALLY excited about engineering. I'm REALLY excited of what it'll have to offer me and (hopefully) what I'll have to offer it.

So if you think of starting in the field keep that in mind, an engineer must be a someone who will do great in folowing standards but will shine when the oportunity rises.

Yeah, I think I've realized by now that getting a job with NO paperwork and TONNES of freedom to be creative and independent is sort of a fool's wish. But I figure engineering's strong points will make up for the more bureaucratic points (that every job seems to have). At least I'll HAVE an opportunity to shine, you know?

I think especially in consulting and in working with people it's more fun to me while I do my engineering hobbies at home.

Do you mind telling me a little more about engineering consulting? I've never heard of it before! Sounds interesting...

 

[entropie]

Well if you have a technical degree, are specialized in a field intresting to society atm and have good soft skills, yaou're basically predestined to be a consultant. Especially institutions are looking for you then, to get a better idea about new technologies and to have an expert in the house. I currently have an awesome job with my hometown, who have a department that especially deals with new technology and its practicability for the industry of the town. I can work completly independent there and basically the job is about getting all relevant informartion on new technologies and then you try to found a network of people around it, which eventually do a fair together that builds some reputation and eventually companies settle down in your region. It's a pretty amazing job and a lot of fun, only downside is I am doing no practical engineering work but rather use my theorethical knowledge to organise our efforts.

Consulting is definitly a more people oriented job and you work more like a businessman (means you gotta learn all that nifty SJ rules about clothing and such which kinda is getting on my nerves at times). In Germany we have a billion kinds of institutions for anything and cluster and networks of people, so tho even if I'lkd decide after University to work fulltime in consulting, I'ld always find a job. Kinda tough decision tho, cause as an engineer you'ld like to work on some real projects. Yet reality is prolly more like Kuthtuk mentioned, composed of paperwork

 

[garbage]

I've got a couple of engineering degrees, in Electrical and Systems. It seems that Systems Engineering and Computer Engineering are growing fairly quickly.

I'd preferred "consulting" rather than "working for any one particular company." If you play your cards right with the whole "consulting" angle, you can maintain some sort of flexibility, work on a variety of projects, and at least avoid some of the terrible, terrible paperwork..

If you're in college, go for some sort of co-op program where you can test the waters and gain experience while you're in school.

 

[Coriolis]

If you're in college, go for some sort of co-op program where you can test the waters and gain experience while you're in school.

+1000

This is a great way to earn some decent money while in school, gain experience, and make connections as well. You could easily land your first job this way. The companies you work for will already know about your abilities and work habits, and be inclined to hire you when a new position opens up. It may not be your first choice of job, but if the job is at all decent, it would make a good stepping stone to the rest of your career. You will also come out ahead vs. other recent grads with the same degree/grades but no experience.

 

[funkadelik]

I'd preferred "consulting" rather than "working for any one particular company." If you play your cards right with the whole "consulting" angle, you can maintain some sort of flexibility, work on a variety of projects, and at least avoid some of the terrible, terrible paperwork..

So I'm hearing a lot about this terrible, terrible paper work that is slightly avoided by being a consultant. How terrible is it, really? Ie. What would the average, say, electrical engineer's job be like? Or, better question, what is the average day in your (you engineer, you) day? Or that of your colleagues?

+1000

This is a great way to earn some decent money while in school, gain experience, and make connections as well. You could easily land your first job this way. The companies you work for will already know about your abilities and work habits, and be inclined to hire you when a new position opens up. It may not be your first choice of job, but if the job is at all decent, it would make a good stepping stone to the rest of your career. You will also come out ahead vs. other recent grads with the same degree/grades but no experience.

Sold.

 

[InvisibleJim]

I'm a process engineer (my degree is chemical) and I work in oil and gas in an office working out 'plans'.

Engineering pays pretty good and considering the changes in the way the workforce is organised it is pretty much as stable as anything else.

You also don't often get treated like crap because you are a valuable commodity once you know what you are doing.

 

[garbage]

So I'm hearing a lot about this terrible, terrible paper work that is slightly avoided by being a consultant. How terrible is it, really? Ie. What would the average, say, electrical engineer's job be like? Or, better question, what is the average day in your (you engineer, you) day? Or that of your colleagues?

Well.. it's not that bad. But it seems that, if you work for a larger organization, there's more bureaucratic mess to sift through as you're also sometimes doing actual tolerable work. Then again, I have a pretty low tolerance for that sort of thing.

I'll give you an example. Working as a consultant and supporting a somewhat large company that in turn supported a government organization was one of the worst professional-level jobs that I've ever had. I was explicitly told that I was expected to reside in my cubicle for 75% of the working day, with the remaining 25% reserved for meetings. We worked toward deadlines, invariably marked with some sort of four-letter acronym, with no discussion as to the larger implications of the deadline or what exactly it was that we were working for.

Management was clueless, primarily because the structure of the organization did their thinking for them. For example, they explicitly wanted to hire an engineer instead of a M.S. Psychology for an HR position.

Oh, and the reorganizations were a bitch. Every six months or so, for barely any reason at all, people and tasks were shuffled around in some sort of terrible game of musical chairs.. except, instead of chairs, they were departments and resources. You know, whatever makes the analogy make sense.

As far as the technical work itself, CAD design, computer programming, and other engineering tasks allow you to be somewhat creative when trying to come up with a solution to some problem that's out there in the world. Scouring through books, talking to colleagues, and performing research allows you to pull multiple resources together and synthesize a solution. The process can be pretty neat.


In any case, a whole lot of "real" work has some paperwork associated with it. Nurses chart their patients' status, engineers fill out some "RIDS report".. so on and so forth. Some of it makes sense--a "Travel Authorization Form" ensures that you're on record as having traveled for your job in case you get hurt or need to be reimbursed for travel expenses. But, to the extent that it stifles innovation and creativity, I'd want to avoid it.

When I've wanted to perform actual technical work, I've had better luck with smaller projects and/or smaller organizations. At least, in that case, you've got some control over your work and you can see what it is that you're working toward.


I'll also say that, while I barely use my engineering degrees anymore, they were excellent in establishing my career.

 

[funkadelik]

Haha...Bologna, gonna be honest but that sounds like utter hell. I sure hope that's just an isolated case and not the majority of engineering work experiences.

So what do you do now? You say it helped established your career. What might that be?

 

[Not_Me]

I am currently an EE. The work is usually interesting and can be challenging in that you need to constantly learn new things in order to be good at what you do. The pay is better than average. It's a great profession if it matches your personality. One word of warning, assuming that you're female, is that I have never met a female engineer who stayed in the technical field for more than a few years. They usually move to something more people oriented.

I did mechanical in the past, but I found it more suitable for the ISTx type personalities. Most of the work involved creating CAD models, ensuring designs follow established guidlines and documenting them for manufacturing. I got bored after a few years.

 

[Scott N Denver]

I am currently an EE. The work is usually interesting and can be challenging in that you need to constantly learn new things in order to be good at what you do. The pay is better than average. It's a great profession if it matches your personality. One word of warning, assuming that you're female, is that I have never met a female engineer who stayed in the technical field for more than a few years. They usually move to something more people oriented.

I did mechanical in the past, but I found it more suitable for the ISTx type personalities. Most of the work involved creating CAD models, ensuring designs follow established guidlines and documenting them for manufacturing. I got bored after a few years.

I am employed in research and have advanced physics training. Most of my peers also have physics degrees [BS, MS or PhD], most of whom are INTJ's and some INTP's. All the current women are INTJ's. My experience is the opposite, these women stick around. But again, its a science/engineering research environment. You better really like, or at least be able to put up with INTJ's to work in it. The list of not-in-my-immediate-workgroup friends/colleagues who have said things "that [person] is such a bitch/jerk/asshole, I don't know how you manage to put up with them!" is unfortunately not as small of a list as one might expect.

I think the S/N divide is tremendous in engineering, and I'd take a S over an N pretty much any day of the week. They are more consistent, less scattered, less constantly brainstorming and abruptly changing plans, and much more in touch with "practical realities and difficulties."

 

[garbage]

Haha...Bologna, gonna be honest but that sounds like utter hell. I sure hope that's just an isolated case and not the majority of engineering work experiences.

It is utter hell. It's the nature of large projects and large companies in general, though, no matter the specific discipline.

In the beginning of a career, when options are limited and you're testing the waters, large companies might be suitable. I just like having my fingers in lots of different pots and I have a low tolerance for bullshit, so they're not for me.

So what do you do now? You say it helped established your career. What might that be?

My discipline is mostly psychological research, especially as it intersects computer modeling. I could go on about the different projects that I've been a part of, though--many have touched my discipline, and many haven't. You can make a career out of "being capable" rather than out of "being an expert in a particular discipline," though a hint of both is, of course, desirable. If you delve into the "capability" track, an engineering degree can help demonstrate that you are, indeed, capable. And if you happen to also be interested in the specific discipline that you studied--all the better.

Small organizations and entrepreneurship have been where I've been most successful. In a smaller organization, it seems easier to be a part of the "big picture" of the organization itself. There's somewhat of a tradeoff between the flexibility of small organizations and the stability of larger ones, though.

 

[Not_Me]

I think the S/N divide is tremendous in engineering, and I'd take a S over an N pretty much any day of the week. They are more consistent, less scattered, less constantly brainstorming and abruptly changing plans, and much more in touch with "practical realities and difficulties."

That's because they enjoy handling the execution details that you hate doing. I think both types compliment each other in getting things done. My S colleagues dreads uncertain troubleshooting assignments, while I dislike detailing and documentation.

 

[funkadelik]

In the beginning of a career, when options are limited and you're testing the waters, large companies might be suitable. I just like having my fingers in lots of different pots and I have a low tolerance for bullshit, so they're not for me.

I also have a low tolerance for bullshit. Even where I work now (service industry crap) I don't mind calling my boss on it when I smell bullshit. Not really good for job security but there ya go. Good for personal sanity.

Well, there's no telling what kind of entry-level job I'll get once I graduate. But I guess I'll say I'd rather make less money and have more freedom than make more and work for a large company like that. But I guess that's not entirely up to me to decide.

No reason I should blame "engineering" for how these companies are structured.

My discipline is mostly psychological research, especially as it intersects computer modeling. I could go on about the different projects that I've been a part of, though--many have touched my discipline, and many haven't. You can make a career out of "being capable" rather than out of "being an expert in a particular discipline," though a hint of both is, of course, desirable. If you delve into the "capability" track, an engineering degree can help demonstrate that you are, indeed, capable. And if you happen to also be interested in the specific discipline that you studied--all the better.

Small organizations and entrepreneurship have been where I've been most successful. In a smaller organization, it seems easier to be a part of the "big picture" of the organization itself. There's somewhat of a tradeoff between the flexibility of small organizations and the stability of larger ones, though.

This is great advice. Thanks.

One word of warning, assuming that you're female, is that I have never met a female engineer who stayed in the technical field for more than a few years. They usually move to something more people oriented.

I'm confused as to what being female has to do with any of that. Anecdotal correlation =/= causation yo. But I can see myself being attracted to something more people oriented simply cause I'm extroverted.