Money

[The_Liquid_Laser]

are we meant to work?

It depends on how you define "work". Raising children is technically work, but a lot of people find it satisfying. Overall I would say "yes", I think work was meant to be one of our primary means of satisfaction in life.

The best answer I can give for those of you who hate your jobs is this:

I'm glad I decided to pursue what I wanted to do.

This makes me wonder if George Carlin enjoyed being a stand-up comic. And if the answer is "no", then why didn't he do something else?

 

[entropie]

I never had much money in my life, yet I havent had the need to have more too in my life. Even recently where I got in a first real job and earn more than I ever earned so far, still the money's rotting in my bank.

Yet I am a workaholic, I couldnt imagine having nothing to do. Life's short enough to complete all the things you want to do.

Still I dont like the idea that you have to work for your basic needs. To many people this means they have to work such long and strange hours that they basically only work to be able to work more. It's ridicoulus.

There is a new idea, I lately seen on television. Unbelieveable but true, there's a group of people who want to give 1000 € to every citizen every month and they call that basic security. So this means if you dont work you nevertheless get 1000 €. This is kinda unbelieveable but they developed a working model for it that even talks about the financing. There shall be a cash pool for the money and some of the money you spent for things like an apartment and such should directly go into the cash pool. They have a lots of ideas and they do that under the premise that society is evolving and could evolve into a society that isnt defined over working but a society of culture and knowledge. The greatest enemy to their model would be if noone would work no more when they get 1000 € every month.

Still tho that model sounds very ridicoulus and overly idealistic, I think our way of thinki9ng about such a model may be biased because we are used to how it is in our time. Yet if you think about an idealized society like it is presented in startrek, where they have no money at all; I'ld still like to believe that some time it may be possible.

 

[chachamaru]

@_@ Star Trek is the ideal world.

 

[Oaky]

Everything we have can be replaced. Everything but time.

Can people be replaced... lex?

 

[iwakar]

is over rated.

So much of our time is spent with people we don't like for money (aka a job).

And our loved ones get the left overs (aka when you get home/the weekend/holidays).

I hate this cycle.

Money is only a medium, albeit an inaccurate one, that translates effort into reward.

My effort purchases my food, my home, my clothing, my distant experiences, my peace of mind, my independence, my gifts to loved ones, my medical care, my creative resources, and my freedom to provide all of the above to others if I choose.

The real scandal is which efforts earn which rewards.

 

[Patches]

Either you work from 9-5 to make money to buy the things you need (food, clothing, shelter), or you work all day planting your own crops, harvesting your own food, making your own clothing, etc etc.

The system we are currently utilizing allows us more free time than if we were left to fend for ourselves.

And frankly, I feel like shit when I have nothing to do for weeks (or even days) at a time.

 

[BlueGray]

I never had much money in my life, yet I havent had the need to have more too in my life. Even recently where I got in a first real job and earn more than I ever earned so far, still the money's rotting in my bank.

Yet I am a workaholic, I couldnt imagine having nothing to do. Life's short enough to complete all the things you want to do.

Still I dont like the idea that you have to work for your basic needs. To many people this means they have to work such long and strange hours that they basically only work to be able to work more. It's ridicoulus.

There is a new idea, I lately seen on television. Unbelieveable but true, there's a group of people who want to give 1000 € to every citizen every month and they call that basic security. So this means if you dont work you nevertheless get 1000 €. This is kinda unbelieveable but they developed a working model for it that even talks about the financing. There shall be a cash pool for the money and some of the money you spent for things like an apartment and such should directly go into the cash pool. They have a lots of ideas and they do that under the premise that society is evolving and could evolve into a society that isnt defined over working but a society of culture and knowledge. The greatest enemy to their model would be if noone would work no more when they get 1000 € every month.

Still tho that model sounds very ridicoulus and overly idealistic, I think our way of thinki9ng about such a model may be biased because we are used to how it is in our time. Yet if you think about an idealized society like it is presented in startrek, where they have no money at all; I'ld still like to believe that some time it may be possible.

That sounds like a Communism/Capitalism mix. I fail to see how it removes the requirement for work.

 

[entropie]

That sounds like a Communism/Capitalism mix. I fail to see how it removes the requirement for work.

It shall not, I dont think life can b e really fun if you have no work. The idea is to help those who are working insane hours get paied nothing and just have to do it to survive because they have a bad qualification or are foreigners. In Germany you especially find foreigners in jobs that sucks because our administration doesnt accept education you didnt take in Germany. I know a girl from Turkey who moved to the side of her family living in Germany to escape religious prosecution and she has a University degree in engineering. Yet she has to work three jobs here, of which none has to do with engineering cause her University degree isnt accepted here. She earns like half of what I earn and I work parttime :/.

Another example would be single mothers with childs, or Dads. Working besides raising kids is equally hard for them.

We have already a similiar institution in Germany which pays you child money. So when you have a kid you get paied money for some period of time. You always get a little less but you get paied until the kids are 21 I think is the actual law. You can receive up to 300 Euro at the start I think and later you get around 150 Euro.

This sounds rather stupid from a Keysean standpoint but I think our future could come to a point where money hasnt have the same meaning like it has today. Of course the problem would be by giving everyone $1000 per month, the worth of money would probably drop aswell, so it aint that easy at all. Still I think that ideas like child money or basic security are first steps in a money-independant society, which doesnt mean that we wont work in the future no more.

In some countries things like that are even getting real importance: in Europe for example the child birth ratio is so low that our society is aging too fast and that it does eventually die out. If people are like today so invbolved with caring to earn money, there will be less people who rather found a family with many kids. Most people do just from economical standpoints have only one kid or none at all to be able to survive and I think it cant go on like that.

Regarding political views you are of course talking to a socialist

 

[redScorpion]

We always hear the same thing.

I had to learned to hard way that money was not a awful thing and that loving it wasnt wrong. Especially in France, where there's a huge socialist influence since the 30s. I'm not ashamed to say that I love money. And people who does should not be hated.

It's my primary drive to keep my business alive and don't be homeless. And having money is great too.

 

[lowtech redneck]

There's always welfare....

Heh, if it was a viable option, I'd rely on welfare for neccessities my whole life, and do day labor for my luxuries (it actually has decent pay if one ignores the insecurity and takes the lack of taxes into account).

Don't get me wrong, I consider a work ethic to be a virtue, for two reasons: It makes material conditions better for everybody and (reality being what it is) results in greater personal happiness for people who have it. I wish I had it.

I think the divide between people with a work ethic and people without rest on two variables: whether people can derive some type of utility out of work itself, and whether the quality of one's free time makes up for its deficit in quantity. On the first, I derive no satisfaction from the accomplishments of work if I don't enjoy the process for its own sake. On the second, suffice to say that, if I'm spending more time with work (which includes driving to and from and other supplementary acts) than I am doing something I enjoy, its a net utilitarian loss for me (after basic necessities are earned, of course).

That said, money is possibly the greatest invention of all time, and the biggest reason for governments beyond the village level to exists. Seriously, bartering sucks.

 

[lowtech redneck]

And frankly, I feel like shit when I have nothing to do for weeks (or even days) at a time.

I really can't understand this perspective at all; I appreciate the evolutionary purpose and utilitarian benifit of such a mindset, but for me having nothing to do is pure Heaven.

 

[Rail Tracer]

It shall not, I dont think life can b e really fun if you have no work. The idea is to help those who are working insane hours get paied nothing and just have to do it to survive because they have a bad qualification or are foreigners. In Germany you especially find foreigners in jobs that sucks because our administration doesnt accept education you didnt take in Germany. I know a girl from Turkey who moved to the side of her family living in Germany to escape religious prosecution and she has a University degree in engineering. Yet she has to work three jobs here, of which none has to do with engineering cause her University degree isnt accepted here. She earns like half of what I earn and I work parttime :/.

Another example would be single mothers with childs, or Dads. Working besides raising kids is equally hard for them.

We have already a similiar institution in Germany which pays you child money. So when you have a kid you get paied money for some period of time. You always get a little less but you get paied until the kids are 21 I think is the actual law. You can receive up to 300 Euro at the start I think and later you get around 150 Euro.

This sounds rather stupid from a Keysean standpoint but I think our future could come to a point where money hasnt have the same meaning like it has today. Of course the problem would be by giving everyone $1000 per month, the worth of money would probably drop aswell, so it aint that easy at all. Still I think that ideas like child money or basic security are first steps in a money-independant society, which doesnt mean that we wont work in the future no more.

In some countries things like that are even getting real importance: in Europe for example the child birth ratio is so low that our society is aging too fast and that it does eventually die out. If people are like today so invbolved with caring to earn money, there will be less people who rather found a family with many kids. Most people do just from economical standpoints have only one kid or none at all to be able to survive and I think it cant go on like that.

Regarding political views you are of course talking to a socialist

Heard it is especially hard to gain citizenship in Germany. Almost to the point that, if you don't have a family member who is already a citizen in Germany, tough luck getting in.

I like Germany's system though. From what I've learned, the government actually does its best to give everyone a decent living. A small butcher shop can survive next to a giant shopping mall. Pretty much learn a trade and you'll be living just as fine as someone who wants to be payed more.

I believe students also get payed for attending college?

It pretty much takes out the need to fight for every little piece of money that you can.

 

[GZA]

Work is good. 8 hours a day is a third of your week days. Another third is sleeping and another third is whatever you want. Then you have weekends. Spending time doing something that is not directly in your sphere of needs is good. I believe being given the responsibility to do work in exchange for money is a great thing. It's much better than school where you are always worrying about grades and you feel disappointed in your assignments because you believe it should benefit you. At least with work you can show up, do a good job, and go home and do whatever it is you care about, instead of worrying about stupid crap all the time. I know people who dropped out of school to work and they're very happy with their decision.

I can't wait until I can just work, and then go home and do what I love. I loved having a job in the summer, it was much more engaging than school. I enjoyed figuring out how to become better at my job and become more efficient. I did not enjoy getting up early, but it was worth it. I can't wait to work again.