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America, exams, multiple choice, European perceptions...

Southern Kross

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I don't know about you but in HS we had tests in all classes pretty much every other week except gym, in some classes very regularly every week. However, there were only 2 standardized tests that HS students were required to take, and those weren't even counted towards your grade. Most people took the ACT, some took the SAT, and many people took AP exams, some 5 or 6 a year.
Wow. That is a lot of tests. We certainly don't have that many here. Well, actually what I mean is we didn't when I was there - now tests are probably much more frequent.

In college, I cannot recall one multiple choice exam....we had a lot more projects and papers than exams, and exams were heavy on essays also.
What did you study?
 

Haphazard

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Wow. That is a lot of tests. We certainly don't have that many here. Well, actually what I mean is we didn't when I was there - now tests are probably much more frequent.

This may be because I was trying to go to college though. Maybe people who weren't trying for college didn't have such intense schedules. I just know that particularly in AP classes, they had a lot of material to cover in a short time, thus the constant testing. College does too, but they don't feel the need to test you on it every time they cover a new chapter/whatever. If you don't know it in time for the exam, you're just fucked.
 

LEGERdeMAIN

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multiple choice = streamlined grading. It's about efficiency in the face of poor writing skills(and penmanship).
 

Haphazard

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It really is about streamlining. My calc prof in college insisted on having half the tests (content wise, not score wise) be multiple choice which really pissed me off because it's much easier to lose points on math in multiple choice questions than in free-answer questions.
 

Laurie

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Yeah, it's something like that. It's almost like education = McDonald's. Just pump out a bunch of burgers that all look and taste the same and it will be good. Yeah, that method might be efficient, but what if I want a REALLY good burger or a specialty burger or mushrooms or whatever. What we end up with is a bunch of college graduates who have no clue how to perform in their first job.

Not to mention failing to nurture people's innate talents and interests because teachers are forbidden to stray from curriculum. It's a shame that we let stupid people design and implement our education system.

How long since you guys have been in school? They have to pass some standardized tests, 5th grade is only one so far they "had" to pass, which neither child had any trouble passing. My first child is straight A's but my second is an average student.

My (middle school) kids are doing layered curriculum in social studies and have special science labs and do a lot of critical thinking. Everyday math is a new type of math in the elementary schools that is far superior to what we took in elementary school. I've heard that it's harder for low to average students because it's not just repetition.

I'm not really sure about no child left behind but I haven't seen any major differences other than teachers making sure they teach some things that will be on the exam.

On topic: I think multiple choice tests are pretty useless but I can understand why they use them in "unimportant" classes with hundreds of students. We rarely had multiple choice in engineering. We did in metallurgy but that was about it. Even in American History I had to write essays, one of the few "huge" classes I took.

Kudos for you for picking up on it being something stupid someone said instead of accepting it as truth based on something they knew that you didn't.
 

skylights

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"America is the only country in the world that does not have an educational system based on examinations."

:rofl1:

yeah right, i wish.

i did AP and some IB classes in high school, which all had frequent testing. most tests were short answer, some included multiple choice, and many had long essay portions. actually, in many people's eyes, testing is becoming too much of a focus, instead of learning the actual subjects.

to be honest i HATE multiple choice and love essay questions... so much easier to bullshit!

Haphazard said:
I was surprised when I got into college that the testing really seemed to die down a lot.

me too. much more emphasis on papers.
 

SilkRoad

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Thanks all, I think we've concluded that Americans do in fact write exams. ;) although over-reliance on multiple choice may result in a low standard in a lot of cases. I never really believed my boss's comment, anyway...I take a lot of what she says with a grain of salt!

One thing I raised which no one really addressed: why do so many Americans seem to have such a poor grasp of geography in particular? I mean, no, Americans are certainly not the only ones, that can happen with anyone from any nationality...but it does seem to be a major trend. I mean, a SEVERE lack of knowledge about geography, like thinking that Canada is just a tiny little country occupying the area of the Maritime provinces on the east coast. And I (and many others) have encountered this kind of basic lack of knowledge about geography, not just amongst Americans in poorer areas with less access to education, but in New York and other major centres, or amongst Americans who are actually in the middle of travelling...

Mind you, I do recall getting the "is Canada a country?" type of question from a few Europeans too. ;)
 

Laurie

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Maybe because we have 50 states to learn the geography of including capitals? We do spend elementary geography on that. Of course many Americans don't know that either. We have to go pretty far to interact with a non American too.

I drove just over 1000 miles to see my sister and we saw states down the eastern side of the USA. Can Europeans drive 1000 miles and only learn their own countries geography?

I'm awful at geography so that's my thought. If a European learns 50 countries and capitals that's "a lot of geography."
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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One thing I raised which no one really addressed: why do so many Americans seem to have such a poor grasp of geography in particular? I mean, no, Americans are certainly not the only ones, that can happen with anyone from any nationality...but it does seem to be a major trend. I mean, a SEVERE lack of knowledge about geography, like thinking that Canada is just a tiny little country occupying the area of the Maritime provinces on the east coast. And I (and many others) have encountered this kind of basic lack of knowledge about geography, not just amongst Americans in poorer areas with less access to education, but in New York and other major centres, or amongst Americans who are actually in the middle of travelling...

Here is my answer.

I don't know what the average American knows about Canada, but I had assumed that most Americans could easily identify it on a map. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I really think every American should have basic knowledge about Canada.

When it comes to Europe I'd have to ask why the average American needs to know much about Europe at all? Can the average European name all nations and capitals of Central and South America? I very much doubt it. What I'm seeing from Europeans is hurt pride. Europeans have to learn about America, so they expect Americans to learn about them. But the US has been the dominant country since WWII: economically, politically and certainly militarily. So every country should take interest in the US for this reason. But the reverse is not true. Really it would be better to teach American students about China and India than it would about Europe, so those countries are going to have a more pronounced role in the near future.
 

SilkRoad

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Here is my answer.

I don't know what the average American knows about Canada, but I had assumed that most Americans could easily identify it on a map. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I really think every American should have basic knowledge about Canada.

When it comes to Europe I'd have to ask why the average American needs to know much about Europe at all? Can the average European name all nations and capitals of Central and South America? I very much doubt it. What I'm seeing from Europeans is hurt pride. Europeans have to learn about America, so they expect Americans to learn about them. But the US has been the dominant country since WWII: economically, politically and certainly militarily. So every country should take interest in the US for this reason. But the reverse is not true. Really it would be better to teach American students about China and India than it would about Europe, so those countries are going to have a more pronounced role in the near future.

Fair enough, at least in terms of knowing all capital cities etc. I don't think that's an absolute requirement. But I'm talking about REALLY REALLY BASIC geography. Like when someone from Ireland goes to the US and gets asked "Oh, you're from Ireland? That's in Germany, right?" and then looks confused when the Irish person explains that Ireland and Germany are two separate COUNTRIES and Germany is on the continent while Ireland is an island. Stuff like that...and that was an American in New York, not somewhere in the sticks.

I've just heard too many stories like that (or encountered it myself) for it to be entirely coincidental, even factoring in European snobbery about Americans. And it's kind of on another level from not knowing all the capital cities, or whatever.

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure the argument about Europe not being a world power like the US, and therefore not very important, stands. That just seems like a very US-centric worldview. Countries such as Britain and Germany are enormously influential on the world scene politically and economically. Then there's the fact that Europe is the cradle of Western civilization...
 

MacGuffin

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Here is my answer.

I don't know what the average American knows about Canada, but I had assumed that most Americans could easily identify it on a map. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I really think every American should have basic knowledge about Canada.

americas-hat.jpg
 

MacGuffin

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I don't know why Americans are bad at geography. I'm pretty good at it, I enjoy those quizzes where you have to identify countries/cities on a blank world map.
 

prplchknz

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in college i've never had a lot of exams, and the ones i've had have been essay short answer most of my classes were final papers or projects that you worked on most of the semester. or were suppose to. my cultural theories class this semester is a two part exam one part of essay questions another part oral plus a case study.
 

Uytuun

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From the age of 5/6 onwards (most toddlers start school at age 3), I've had to take an exam every school year in order to be able to advance to the next year (every kid in Belgium, not just me). Not state exams, mind you. I've had to take one centrally-determined exam so far. At age 12. That's it. I'm not sure whether in the US they have binding exams every year.

I've had an entirely multiple choice exam once in 18 years (in my second year of college). But then I did languages and literature. Multiple choice is much more common in the exact sciences.

North-American scholars do have a reputation for lacking finesse and background when it comes to theory and fundamental science/thinking over here (once again, in the arts faculty). Also, lack of language knowledge. And knowledge in general, you know, the cramming stuff. Sometimes they aren't taken very seriously. Hah, I sound pretty French right now. My own experiences do confirm that college-level can in fact (I imagine it depends on the institution with the most expensive/prestigious colleges being very different from...other ones) there's no other way to put it, easier than over here. From what I've heard, I think that goes for all levels of education - there's just a different focus, extracurricular and social stuff seems to be way more important in the US - and I don't think that (in general, on average of course) you guys ever really catch up in certain areas.
 

Athenian200

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I really can't understand why Americans have such a poor grasp of geography.

I've always known North American geography pretty well. I knew roughly where all the states were, and I knew that Canada was in the North, Mexico was in the South, and Europe was to the East, across the Atlantic. I kind of assumed most Americans knew this, because I've known it since age 7.

I've also known Western European geography for a while, though most Americans I know, don't know that. Part of the reason I know it well, is because I took a class called "AP European History" in High School. It was an advanced, optional course that I took my Senior year in order to see if I could handle an AP class. Even before that, I knew where England, Germany, Spain, and France were on a map of Europe, though.

My own experiences do confirm that college-level can in fact (I imagine it depends on the institution with the most expensive/prestigious colleges being very different from...other ones) there's no other way to put it, easier than over here. From what I've heard, I think that goes for all levels of education - there's just a different focus, extracurricular and social stuff seems to be way more important in the US - and I don't think that (in general, on average of course) you guys ever really catch up in certain areas.


I do have to say that I feel like I had trouble understanding how things were done here, though, and I didn't focus on extracurricular or social stuff at all, and I feel like I've been penalized for it because it turns out it was expected. I was always a more focused individual, just wanted to learn. But to be fair, I think our schools are that way because social skills and having passions are extremely important to getting a job or functioning here. People don't respect you if you just want to "get a job to survive," your job is supposed to be the focus of your life, no matter how mundane it is.
 

Uytuun

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I do have to say that I feel like I had trouble understanding how things were done here, though, and I didn't focus on extracurricular or social stuff at all, and I feel like I've been penalized for it because it turns out it was expected. I was always a more focused individual, just wanted to learn. But to be fair, I think our schools are that way because social skills and having passions are extremely important to getting a job or functioning here. People don't respect you if you just want to "get a job to survive," your job is supposed to be the focus of your life, no matter how mundane it is.

On the upside you guys are probably nicer than the French on average and in general. ;)

It's just very different. Refreshing, really, but it's got downsides as well.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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Fair enough, at least in terms of knowing all capital cities etc. I don't think that's an absolute requirement. But I'm talking about REALLY REALLY BASIC geography. Like when someone from Ireland goes to the US and gets asked "Oh, you're from Ireland? That's in Germany, right?" and then looks confused when the Irish person explains that Ireland and Germany are two separate COUNTRIES and Germany is on the continent while Ireland is an island. Stuff like that...and that was an American in New York, not somewhere in the sticks.

Well if they don't know that Ireland is a country then that is really terrible. I've got no explanation for that. American schools pre-college have got problems, but I'm not sure why geography would be any worse than anything else.

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure the argument about Europe not being a world power like the US, and therefore not very important, stands. That just seems like a very US-centric worldview. Countries such as Britain and Germany are enormously influential on the world scene politically and economically. Then there's the fact that Europe is the cradle of Western civilization...

Again I'd say that China is far more influencial than any European country. Any yet I never hear anyone complain about ignorance of Chinese geography. Coincidentally it's always when an American doesn't know something about that person's country that they get upset. Their national pride is being hurt. Europeans expect Americans to know a lot about Europe. That's a European centric worldview.
 

Southern Kross

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Again I'd say that China is far more influencial than any European country. Any yet I never hear anyone complain about ignorance of Chinese geography. Coincidentally it's always when an American doesn't know something about that person's country that they get upset. Their national pride is being hurt. Europeans expect Americans to know a lot about Europe. That's a European centric worldview.
Actually its pretty bad with New Zealand too but its not just Americans - I've heard plenty stories about Britons and Canadians that have said stupid things about NZ. For example, phrases said to myself and other family members while travelling:

- "Which part of Australia is NZ?" - Americans, Canadians, Britons
- "Did you see the thing on the news about Australia?" - Canadians (even though they have been told repeatedly that the person is from NZ)
- "Isn't it near Iceland?" - Americans
- "Isn't it above Canada?" - Americans
- "What language do they speak in NZ?" - Americans, Colombians
- "Do you have laptops and ipods in NZ?" - Britons
- "Are there any sealed roads in NZ?" - Americans

And my personal favourite:

-"Do you walk to Australia when the tide is out?" - Americans, Canadians (no, actually there's 2500km/1200mi of water between us)

Even though its a small, insignificant country its annoying when people have all these nonsensical ideas about it. I wish they would just admit that they don't know anything about it than make stuff up and regard it as good as fact. :doh:
 

wolfy

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Hahaha, I've heard some good ones too. My favourite is Were the Beatles popular in NZ? Japanese have a really great impression of NZ though. Pity tickets aren't cheaper, a lot more people would go.
 
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