Expert on School Bullying and Group Mobbing On Phoebe Prince Case

[ColonelGadaafi]

Dealing with bullies is fairly simple. You either deal with them by violence, social interaction or you avoid their zones completely. You can either befriend them, beat them or avoid them completely.

 

[bai_lin83]

Bullying is unacceptable. I think it's best treated as a crime and nip it at the bud.

People should learn to respect each other and not treat someone badly for any reason.

If bullies are also victims just lashing out, then they have to be made aware that they can't channel their negative feelings to those who are innocent.

I wish everyone would live by a universal honor code.

The environment should not breed bullying. I think society must set a good example.

 

[Mole]

Bullying is unacceptable.

A life task of school children is to become independent of their parents.

This is accomplished by transferring their dependence on their parents to their peers.

And the task of their peers to make sure they conform to the norms of the peer group.

In this way the adolescent weans themselves off their parents and develops a sense of belonging to the peer group.

And bullying is the way the peer group polices its members.

 

[Ivy]

Bullying is unacceptable. I think it's best treated as a crime and nip it at the bud.

A lot of bullying is too subtle to be treated as a crime. Much of the time, nobody is being physically assaulted and no individual is doing enough to warrant legal action. It's a group activity, and it's often mental, not physical.

This is why many of the "just beat them up, they'll leave you alone after that" comments on this thread don't ring true to me- if nobody is touching you, you can't defend yourself physically. These seem to be answering a certain kind of bullying (maybe a male style?) that many victims of bullying never experience.

 

[Mole]

Male and Female Bullying

A lot of bullying is too subtle to be treated as a crime. Much of the time, nobody is being physically assaulted and no individual is doing enough to warrant legal action. It's a group activity, and it's often mental, not physical.

This is why many of the "just beat them up, they'll leave you alone after that" comments on this thread don't ring true to me- if nobody is touching you, you can't defend yourself physically. These seem to be answering a certain kind of bullying (maybe a male style?) that many victims of bullying never experience.

Yes, male bullying is largely physical and standing up to the bullies works.

However female bullying is largely group bullying and standing up to the group only make it worse.

Also female bullying does long term psychological damage.

This is well illustrated in Rachel Simmons' book, "Odd Girl Out - The Hidden Culture of Aggression In Girls".

 

[Venom]

There's still no need to do it to all of them. It's called picking the key players at the top. When you take out the head the body falls to pieces. Once the body falls to pieces it's eaiser to take out the remaining issues one at a time. You have to fight strategically, otherwise all you do waste effort on just getting your ass kicked. I wasn't a big boy growing up; fists are great, but they're useless if you don't calculate their trajectories with the brain as well.

Edit: I also see lack of discipline from the staff is adding to the issue; however, due to litigational issues these days, and general human laziness, I don't see this changing any time soon. Sure, give the system a chance to work, but be prepared for it to be too broken to be of use.

yes. agreed 100% if we are talking about people under the age of 18 (fighting in teens often has less mass and speed involved = more minor injuries...fighting in twenties is down right dangerous due to more mass and speed)

A lot of bullying is too subtle to be treated as a crime. Much of the time, nobody is being physically assaulted and no individual is doing enough to warrant legal action. It's a group activity, and it's often mental, not physical.

This is why many of the "just beat them up, they'll leave you alone after that" comments on this thread don't ring true to me- if nobody is touching you, you can't defend yourself physically. These seem to be answering a certain kind of bullying (maybe a male style?) that many victims of bullying never experience.

see this is where school teachers and their PC bullshit has failed.
in the older generation:
+if someone verbally assaulted you, you could solve it physically (again, we are talking about under 18) and you both would be in trouble... or maybe even nothing at all. The taunter's parents wouldn't press charges because they knew their little timmy probably was being a dumb ass taunting the other kids. They weren't so oblivious to the world that they knew most kids don't fight unprovoked. Both kids would get in trouble at home and thus it would be RESOLVED.

in today's generation:
some administrator got the retarded idea that kids in fact DO fight unprovoked and thus if a kid fights to settle some verbal taunting, only the fight starter gets in trouble. The taunter doesn't get in trouble at school OR at home (because today's parents are too naive to ever blame their little timmy). The taunter comes out BETTER, and the taunted comes out WORSE. This had reduced the amount of fighting (due to incentives), but the situation is as a result UNRESOLVED (taunting goes on, and the taunted has even more feeling of hopelessness).

Bullying is unacceptable. I think it's best treated as a crime and nip it at the bud.

Aren't you worried that treating it as a crime gives the taunted the idea that killing yourself is a way to "really get back at the those taunters". Its the wrong message. As Ivy pointed out, if you're alive, then no one is going to notice the bullying enough to press charges. When you're dead, suddenly everyone wants to press charges. Its a really bad set of incentives.

 

[Ivy]

see this is where school teachers and their PC bullshit has failed.
in the older generation:
+if someone verbally assaulted you, you could solve it physically (again, we are talking about under 18) and you both would be in trouble... or maybe even nothing at all. The taunter's parents wouldn't press charges because they knew their little timmy probably was being a dumb ass taunting the other kids. They weren't so oblivious to the world that they knew most kids don't fight unprovoked. Both kids would get in trouble at home and thus it would be RESOLVED.

in today's generation:
some administrator got the retarded idea that kids in fact DO fight unprovoked and thus if a kid fights to settle some verbal taunting, only the fight starter gets in trouble. The taunter doesn't get in trouble at school OR at home (because today's parents are too naive to ever blame their little timmy). The taunter comes out BETTER, and the taunted comes out WORSE. This had reduced the amount of fighting (due to incentives), but the situation is as a result UNRESOLVED (taunting goes on, and the taunted has even more feeling of hopelessness).

You're still thinking of it as a one-on-one thing. What do you propose a kid who is being verbally taunted by a majority of the other kids in the class do? Attack everyone, every time they say things?

When I said "you can't defend yourself physically" I didn't mean that a student wouldn't be allowed to- I meant that it was not possible.

 

[heart]

Ivy and victor both did a great job trying to explain the difference between the different types of harassment but for the hard of listening, nothing will help. Myths are very stubborn things to let go of. It feels better to believe everything could be made better with a swift right cross.

 

[Laurie]

I was teased as a child at school, mercilessly, even from the good kids. I sometimes wonder if they think about it when they hear stories about bullying. I was a target because of a physical issue so I was an "easy" person to tease. Bullying also isn't always just "male or female" - I had both teasing me.

They violence might work if it started later in life but when you are a 7 year old sweet little girl you don't think "maybe if I hit them they won't say it again." Also, the people I knew who were bullied in high school usually heard that they were being made fun of, it didn't always happen right in front of them. It is actually interesting how many people think that violence will solve all bullying problems.

 

[Venom]

Ivy and victor both did a great job trying to explain the difference between the different types of harassment but for the hard of listening, nothing will help. Myths are very stubborn things to let go of. It feels better to believe everything could be made better with a swift right cross.

I was taunted a lot as a child. I also got in trouble enough over retaliating to prove it. Eventually, people wised up. I was taunted enough irl in elementary school enough that I'm confident that no one should be speaking down to me about it. I know how it works. It sucks. Its probably affected my personal growth and in some ways scarred my ability to trust other people to be descent human beings.

You're still thinking of it as a one-on-one thing. What do you propose a kid who is being verbally taunted by a majority of the other kids in the class do? Attack everyone, every time they say things?

When I said "you can't defend yourself physically" I didn't mean that a student wouldn't be allowed to- I meant that it was not possible.

Ivy and Heart are viewing this as a chess game where you have to basically knock down a ton of pieces before the game is over (before you can reach the king). In reality, conflict is actually more about goal directed targets. If you take the right target, the rest will scatter. You don't have to knock down every chess piece to win the war. Read the art of war if you ever get the chance. Sun Tzu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is actually interesting how many people think that violence will solve all bullying problems.

I actually agree that fighting is rather dumb over the age of say 17 (its too dangerous then). But when you are 7, that's actually when it works best. Choose the terms carefully: of course no one likes violence (blood, bruises, broken body parts, stitches etc)...but a simple fight can be totally free of those things if the kids are just throwing pre-teen punches.

 

[heart]

I was teased as a child at school, mercilessly, even from the good kids. I sometimes wonder if they think about it when they hear stories about bullying. I was a target because of a physical issue so I was an "easy" person to tease. Bullying also isn't always just "male or female" - I had both teasing me.

They violence might work if it started later in life but when you are a 7 year old sweet little girl you don't think "maybe if I hit them they won't say it again." Also, the people I knew who were bullied in high school usually heard that they were being made fun of, it didn't always happen right in front of them. It is actually interesting how many people think that violence will solve all bullying problems.

Yes, this was my experience too. Maybe it should be called "good kid" bullying rather than "girl" bullying.

 

[heart]

Ivy and Heart are viewing this as a chess game where you have to basically knock down a ton of pieces before the game is over (before you can reach the king).

Where do you get this from?

Do you even understand that people are discussing two different issues here? One is one-on-one bullying and the other is group mobbing?

 

[Laurie]

I actually agree that fighting is rather dumb over the age of say 17 (its too dangerous then). But when you are 7, that's actually when it works best. Choose the terms carefully: of course no one likes violence (blood, bruises, broken body parts, stitches etc)...but a simple fight can be totally free of those things if the kids are just throwing pre-teen punches.

Sometimes I don't think people realize what 7 is. I said I was too young to think about doing anything like that. I was NOT built like that, it's cool to think I should have been, or I could have done something physical, but I was NOT built like that. I'm still not, I had someone get physical with me a couple years ago (sprayed something all over me) and I wasn't physical with them, I just am not that kind of a person.

It might "work best" but that's not how I thought at 6 and not how I think at 36. Also, if I started hitting people it wouldn't have made the physical thing go away anyway. Once it went away the teasing went away. BC, no one is speaking down to you, it appears that you've analyzed your situation a lot. You need to realize that not every situation fits the way that you've analyzed yours.

 

[heart]

At seven, I was skinny, constantly sick with ear-nose-throat, little mass of allergies and lost-in-a-daydream-disassociation little girl. Kickin' ass just wasn't likely to happen. I barely made it to school and turn in my assignments.

 

[Ivy]

I didn't really get teased until middle school, but I think kicking ass would have been a terrible idea in my case. terrible. for one thing, there were only 2 other girls in my class of 15 kids, and that was it for the whole middle school (very small private school). It was the boys who tormented me, and it was almost all of them.

 

[heart]

Age nine was when it started from other children for me, but I had signifigant teacher verbal harassment from age eight.

 

[Laurie]

I could have, I was stronger than every girl in my class. I'm just not like that. Even having the ability doesn't mean that it will happen.

 

[Ivy]

Me neither, Aurel. Plus, if I had tried I think it would have been hilarious to all, and another reason to torment me.

 

[Venom]

Where do you get this from?

Do you even understand that people are discussing two different issues here? One is one-on-one bullying and the other is group mobbing?

Difference between mobbing and one vs one = you have more opponents. Having more opponents only changes the game if you have to defeat every single opponent...

 

[heart]

Difference between mobbing and one vs one = you have more opponents. Having more opponents only changes the game if you have to defeat every single opponent...

How many children are capable of engaging in daily mind games and strategy like this?