• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

How do you deal with layoffs and RIFs?

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
Several years ago I worked in an industry where we had layoffs typically twice a year. I always enjoyed them in a bizarre way. It was exciting. I knew enough to realize that I could find another job and I knew also that the decision making was rather arbitrary so rather than worry about it, plan for it. Make contacts with other companies, save money, etc.

Like you say, it was interesting to note the differences among people. I was always disappointed by the politicking to improve survivability.

When the company announced they were closing our studio, rather than relocate, I asked to be laid off. I had already had a job lined up with a competitor starting the week after closure. So, I got a few months severance, double pay for the months leading to closure, and I transitioned in to a new job.

In my experience, banking on job security is a bad idea. It also taught me never to be loyal to a company. If you look at the leaders of any company, you will see they are less likely to be loyal as well.

The part that is annoying is that "caring" people act just as selfishly as "cold" people. Through every layoff, I've always been amused by how the "nice" people got the knives out when it came down to them or someone else. You could see them struggling with it, but at the end of the day all the niceness was just a veneer of convenience. Maybe that's why I enjoyed them.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
Several years ago I worked in an industry where we had layoffs typically twice a year. I always enjoyed them in a bizarre way. It was exciting. I knew enough to realize that I could find another job and I knew also that the decision making was rather arbitrary so rather than worry about it, plan for it. Make contacts with other companies, save money, etc.

Like you say, it was interesting to note the differences among people. I was always disappointed by the politicking to improve survivability.

When the company announced they were closing our studio, rather than relocate, I asked to be laid off. I had already had a job lined up with a competitor starting the week after closure. So, I got a few months severance, double pay for the months leading to closure, and I transitioned in to a new job.

In my experience, banking on job security is a bad idea. It also taught me never to be loyal to a company. If you look at the leaders of any company, you will see they are less likely to be loyal as well.

The part that is annoying is that "caring" people act just as selfishly as "cold" people. Through every layoff, I've always been amused by how the "nice" people got the knives out when it came down to them or someone else. You could see them struggling with it, but at the end of the day all the niceness was just a veneer of convenience. Maybe that's why I enjoyed them.

Did you notice any typological differences when it came for jockeying to be in a better position?
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Did you notice any typological differences when it came for jockeying to be in a better position?

With me people tend to do all the jockeying for me. I end up putting myself in a position where others take it upon themselves to do this for me I am guessing because of my dedication and hard work to help that person.
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
Did you notice any typological differences when it came for jockeying to be in a better position?

The main thing I noticed is that some people sat around (SFJ types) commiserating and hand wringing together, while other types (NTP) went to work on a solution, talking to other departments, digging for info. NTJ types seemed the most nonplussed, I think because they were the typically the most hard-working AND capable.
 

Billy

Crazy Diamond
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,192
MBTI Type
INFJ
Several years ago I worked in an industry where we had layoffs typically twice a year. I always enjoyed them in a bizarre way. It was exciting. I knew enough to realize that I could find another job and I knew also that the decision making was rather arbitrary so rather than worry about it, plan for it. Make contacts with other companies, save money, etc.

Like you say, it was interesting to note the differences among people. I was always disappointed by the politicking to improve survivability.

When the company announced they were closing our studio, rather than relocate, I asked to be laid off. I had already had a job lined up with a competitor starting the week after closure. So, I got a few months severance, double pay for the months leading to closure, and I transitioned in to a new job.

In my experience, banking on job security is a bad idea. It also taught me never to be loyal to a company. If you look at the leaders of any company, you will see they are less likely to be loyal as well.

The part that is annoying is that "caring" people act just as selfishly as "cold" people. Through every layoff, I've always been amused by how the "nice" people got the knives out when it came down to them or someone else. You could see them struggling with it, but at the end of the day all the niceness was just a veneer of convenience. Maybe that's why I enjoyed them.

"You have to be trusted, by the people that you lie to, so that when they turn their backs on you, you get the chance to put the knife in."
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
The main thing I noticed is that some people sat around (SFJ types) commiserating and hand wringing together, while other types (NTP) went to work on a solution, talking to other departments, digging for info. NTJ types seemed the most nonplussed, I think because they were the typically the most hard-working AND capable.

Yeah, I've definitely done the commiseration thing, but I've also been applying for jobs steadily once I first received absolute confirmation about the RIFs.

I'm wondering if the older people and directors who are typically the ones who feel invulnerable to RIFs (although I think this last one shook a few people), are resting on their laurels and coasting on past glory. I've noticed some of them bottlenecking information to create job security. Things like not giving out contact information or CC'ing other integral employees on emails to contractors and vendors so that they're in complete control of a process. Man, I learning so much!

And watching what people are doing, I can't blame them. This is the definition of self-preservation and self-interest. I don't expect any sacrificial lambs to rise from the ranks and say "Take me! Spare them their jobs!" This is a period of time that is bringing out traits and characteristics in people that under better circumstances wouldn't be an issue. Maybe it's me, but saying just do good work and be a "good" employee is not saving people's jobs. I haven't reconciled what lengths one should go to to preserve their job and still remain honorable.

This may require a new thread so I'll split.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Honestly I tend to be kind of blaise about it; there's not much I can do, it's out of my control, and in general I'm such a good employee that I know I won't be the first of the bunch to be laid off (assuming we all perform the same role), and I tend to know who of the bunch probably would get the axe if our particular team would be hit (I've worked in the past for a company who had layoffs on a couple of occasions, but my particular team was not impacted).

I'll express empathy and listen to those who do need to vent a bit and are distressed, but in general I tend to shy away when things become too gossipy; if there's a group of people talking about it and I've been there for 5 minutes listening, etc, I'll duck away and leave them to continue venting/discussing. :) It's sort of a waste of energy/my energy to stress about all of it when ultimately it's out of my hands.

I guess I have a more 'cold' view of corporations/business....it's just one of those things, it's in the nature of a business and how it operates. Layoffs happen on occasion. (and honestly...I wouldn't have minded if my team would have been impacted by layoffs last year so I could have volunteered to be axed, rather than my voluntary resignation, because at least then I could have gotten unemployment benefits!! haha)
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The main thing I noticed is that some people sat around (SFJ types) commiserating and hand wringing together

It's hard for SFJs.

I've just been talking to one who is very close to me, who is basically being run through the wringer at a place where she has worked loyally for ten or more years. She was always dedicated, more than the other employees and even most of the managers, although she was only office staff; and I had discussed with her how she was giving them far more than they were giving her; but she just has an insanely strong work ethic.

Now they are trying to basically run her out, as far as either of us can tell, by increasing her work hours past what they know she can handle and/or doesn't want, taking away duties that were hers and that she did well and giving them to less qualified people, etc. I think it's because they pay her too much for the nature of her position, and in that business they really don't want overqualified or overdedicated staff due to the bottom line.

She is absolutely devastated and even bitter, she spent a long time in denial and then just wondering how they could do such a thing to her. Being practical and persistent, she did her best to make her needs known to them and was promptly rebuffed, and now she's been looking for other work while jumping through these hoops until she has an escape route but...

... no, there is no such thing as company loyalty.

I learned that lesson very early in my career, and I also was fairly pragmatic to begin with. But loyalty is everything to her; she gave them her best, which was SO better than what many others gave...and they devalued her contributions, in her mind, now.

SFJ just usually has this expectation of devotion, commitment, and relational fairness. Even when someone breaks faith, it seems very difficult for them to accept the change and move on. Change is strongly resisted. Even when the other side is faithless, the stronger ones STILL try to adhere to their OWN promise of fidelity.

.... as for me, now that I have gotten past some massive lack of self-confidence issues, I'm much more pragmatic. My basic plan is to see the ship sinking early, and have an exit strategy planned... but as my self-confidence continues to increase, I start looking for better ships to sail on even if my old one is running okay. I won't leave people in the lurch but I won't hesitate much to go to a better place for me, nowadays. I just want to keep things FAIRLY stable once I'm there and make sure there are no leaks in the boat that might catch me off-guard.
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I have armed myself against it as thoroughly as possible, I'm satisfied beyond a doubt about that. Now it's just a matter of que sera, sera. I'm thinking live it up on what's left of my 401k and then put a gun to my head.

Hey. At least I have a plan.
 

Halla74

Artisan Conquerer
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
6,898
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Some wisdom from my 90 year old friend, Anne, applies to life in many ways, including jobs:

"It's best to leave the party while you're still having fun."

This translates to:

"It's best to find a new (and better, hopefully) job BEFORE you lose your current one."

There is no loyalty in the private sector. There is loyalty in the public sector, but there is alot of clique networking and politicking. In general, if you have a public sector job, and what you know is complicated and technical, you have decent job security, but no job is totally secure.

I have always been an industrious man. I have always worked side jobs to make extra cash. While my kids were real young I worked full time as a systems analyst for an IT company, part time as a waiter at a BBQ restaurant, and worked weekends cleaning houses, DJing at bars, and landscaping, so my wifey could stay home with our beautiful little rugrats. :D Even when I was younger I worked as such because I have champagne tastes. :happy2:

When it comes to money, never put all your eggs into one basket. Create as many streams of revenue as you can at once. It never hurts to have spare coinage around. :newwink:
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
I'm wondering if the older people and directors who are typically the ones who feel invulnerable to RIFs (although I think this last one shook a few people), are resting on their laurels and coasting on past glory. I've noticed some of them bottlenecking information to create job security. Things like not giving out contact information or CC'ing other integral employees on emails to contractors and vendors so that they're in complete control of a process. Man, I learning so much!

I can't and don't work for corporations. Too little control. In the past, though, I've noticed that I naturally build alliances and get to know people who might be able to help me in the event of a crisis. As soon as I start somewhere I try to identify the power centers and cozy up to them. I am very opportunity minded that way. I even go above my supervisors to establish direct links to protect myself. (I'm working on a book about workplace politics and how to survive while slacking)

People I see as weaklings I disregard because I know they simply can't be of any use to me. If I think they can be taught, I will try to help them, but some people just take a victim approach to life. Never asserting themselves, never looking out for their own interests because they were either too stupid or didn't seem to see the way things really are. Sometimes this attitude does not make me seem trustworthy to my coworkers, who perceive my naked self-interest, but they don't know what I know. And, they don't see how flimsy their bonds of work friendship are. I see my egocentrism as radically honest and forthright.

And watching what people are doing, I can't blame them. This is the definition of self-preservation and self-interest. I don't expect any sacrificial lambs to rise from the ranks and say "Take me! Spare them their jobs!" This is a period of time that is bringing out traits and characteristics in people that under better circumstances wouldn't be an issue. Maybe it's me, but saying just do good work and be a "good" employee is not saving people's jobs. I haven't reconciled what lengths one should go to to preserve their job and still remain honorable.

This may require a new thread so I'll split.

The good work mentality is a slave mentality. No one in power subscribes to this.
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
I have armed myself against it as thoroughly as possible, I'm satisfied beyond a doubt about that. Now it's just a matter of que sera, sera. I'm thinking live it up on what's left of my 401k and then put a gun to my head.

Hey. At least I have a plan.

Survival is cheap. You would be surprised how little I live on. But, this is because I keep things simple (and don't have children).
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Survival is cheap. You would be surprised how little I live on. But, this is because I keep things simple (and don't have children).

I lease a car and own a condo. I'd lose both.

Guess I may as well say I'm loyal to my boss and to my firm. If I were to be let go, I wouldn't hold it against them. I would think it could not have been helped, and we all have to bow to the inevitable.

I don't think it will happen, however. *knock wood*
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
I lease a car and own a condo. I'd lose both.

Get a beater for 3k. Live somewhere else. I share a house for a few hundred bucks a month. We never own anything anyway. Go to a few estate sales and you will quickly realize this.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
Eheh, I've never been laid off so far (although I have worked relatively little, only part-time but 5 years in the same company), but I would say my general approach is: work as hard and as well as you can, get paid as much as you can rip off the company, care about its destiny if they're giving you a good salary, but don't give a shit when/if they're going badly. Basically, I think of it like a ship: if it's sailing quickly and in the right direction, it's better for me, too, so I try to do my best to achieve that. If I can't...I'll get down at the next harbor.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Loyalty to anything other than your close friends and family is a slave mindset.

I dunno if I'd go that far, but I do know I've never viewed my employment anywhere in terms of loyalty; I think I'm too selfish for that. In my last job I felt *bad* for leaving, as I really liked the people I worked with and did feel bad on some level for leaving the work for everyone else to do...but ultimately that didn't stop me and I never viewed it in terms of my ceasing to be 'loyal' to them...as I was never 'loyal' in the first place. A job is a job. There will always be others to keep the machine going.
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
I dunno if I'd go that far, but I do know I've never viewed my employment anywhere in terms of loyalty; I think I'm too selfish for that. In my last job I felt *bad* for leaving, as I really liked the people I worked with and did feel bad on some level for leaving the work for everyone else to do...but ultimately that didn't stop me and I never viewed it in terms of my ceasing to be 'loyal' to them...as I was never 'loyal' in the first place. A job is a job. There will always be others to keep the machine going.

This is what I've told past bosses: "Look, this is a transaction. Like dealing with a hooker. You pay me. I work."

Don't ask me for the girlfriend experience. Don't ask me to care. Because then I would have to lie.
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What's the longest anyone's ever been at one job?
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
I was a courier in college. I started in the warehouse then started driving. I was there 5 years through college and a year after. But, they had a tuition reimbursement program and I actually enjoyed running around. It seems to get progressively shorter.

5 years, then next I was at a place for 3 years, then a year, then 6 months, then 8 months, then a year, then 1.5 years. Now I work for myself.
 
Top